The 2019 NFL Free Agency/Trade Thread

[dtgold88]

The Bitonio signing was a great move, I'll definitely agree there, as was the Zeitler signing. Regardless of what I say about Sashi/Berry, they were still significantly better at the job than Farmer. He was a nightmare.

I can definitely see Shobert getting extended if he continues to play well. No reason at all to think he won't. He's an absolute monster.

I hope you are right, but would you really be shocked if Dorsey moved on from him as he did not pick him? If Shoebert was to be extended now is the best time. Closer he gets to FA less likely he is not to wait.

 

[Shanemansj13]

Think you need to reread. I'm sure ATF will tell you I never ripped Dorsey for the OBJ trade and said while I like Peppers I'd have absolutely made the deal.

Nassib "nothing special" even though he had half a dozen sacks in TB. But you are high on Corbett who has played about as much as me?

It's funny you say Dorsey did what he was brought here to do but here's a flash....Sashi did everything he said he'd do (with Paul D).......dump the overpaid/aging vets, clear cap space and acquire as many extra high picks as possible. Did it so well Dorsey jumped at the chance to take over. Ironic, huh?

Pathetic to me is you lacking reading comprehension and your clear agenda of everything Dorsey good, Sashi bad.

I said I like Dorsey and am glad he's here. Doesn't mean I have to be a fanboy and not point out a mistake if I think he made one. I also like Sashi/Berry/Paul D and the plan they put together and stuck to despite the losses and outside noise...credit to Jimmy for letting it go on as well.

Its great you love the Ward pick. So do I......but as I keep trying to remind you without sashi acquiring the pick the NFL does not allow Dorsey to pick him.

Also pathetic because of preconceived agendas you cannot just accept that, yes, Dorsey has been great but without Sashi this team is not where they are...and likely Dorsey isn't here.

You still questioning OBJ.

"but with Beckham hard to know how much he'll be used"

What? HE is a top 5 WR in the league this doesn't even make sense. He will targets A LOT and Jarvis and Callaway will prevent teams from doubling often. It was a brilliant move and yes I get overall you said it was a good trade but it seems like you trying to turn a positive into a negative.

You are ripping me for saying Dorsey did a good job but you are doing the EXACT same thing for Sashi lol. Ironic. but your statement isn't true I told you all the great things Sashi did but the bottomline is: he didn't win through his short time AND if they truly believed in Sashi long-term why do they get rid of him? For this exact reason and what I have been saying for awhile now. Dorsey has the experience and track record. Easier to trust a veteran GM than to side with a young GM with little experience. Both haven't been perfect but it is a pretty easy choice if any team in the NFL had to choose between the two.

You keep saying I give no credit to Sashi but I did. The only one that has an agenda is you buddy. I'm sorry if you can't see this. You were the one that starting "ripping" Dorsey in the first place bc he is getting rid of Sashi's players when most of them weren't even that valuable on this team.

 

[dtgold88]

You still questioning OBJ.

"but with Beckham hard to know how much he'll be used"

What? HE is a top 5 WR in the league this doesn't even make sense. He will targets A LOT and Jarvis and Callaway will prevent teams from doubling often. It was a brilliant move and yes I get overall you said it was a good trade but it seems like you trying to turn a positive into a negative.

You are ripping me for saying Dorsey did a good job but you are doing the EXACT same thing for Sashi lol. Ironic. but your statement isn't true I told you all the great things Sashi did but the bottomline is: he didn't win through his short time AND if they truly believed in Sashi long-term why do they get rid of him? For this exact reason and what I have been saying for awhile now. Dorsey has the experience and track record. Easier to trust a veteran GM than to side with a young GM with little experience. Both haven't been perfect but it is a pretty easy choice if any team in the NFL had to choose between the two.

You keep saying I give no credit to Sashi but I did. The only one that has an agenda is you buddy. I'm sorry if you can't see this. You were the one that starting "ripping" Dorsey in the first place bc he is getting rid of Sashi's players when most of them weren't even that valuable on this team.

Are you serious? I was referring to Njoku in that first highlighted comment ...as in how much will Njoku be used now that we have Beckham. Njoku mentioned right before I made that comment.

I'm not ripping you at all for saying he did a good job. You really are losing it. I also think he's done a good job. But like everyone in his position he has made mistakes. And I keep telling you why they fired Sashi...they were keeping Hue and someone had to be the scapegoat for 1-31.

No one ripped Dorsey either for getting rid of his players. I also have said we are talking backups so wont make or break the season. But I did question if he'd do it if they were his guys.

I realize you think Dorsey is made of teflon and can't make any mistakes.

 

[Across The Field]

Keeping Sashi had nothing to do with making draft picks. do you not recall when they hired him he said the plan was find a credible GM? How he said he was not a talent evaluator? That was Berry...and he did such a poor job another team hired him as their GM.

It's funny you say how easy it is to trade down and acquire extra picks but past regimes with football guys wouldn't do it. They also wouldn't cut the dead weight. They were happy to just keep winning 3-6 games every year. How'd that work out? Would you have preferred they did that and not been able to get Garrett and Baker?

Dorsey might have taken the job but he'd have done what the other football guys would do....keep that overpaid dead weight and stayed with the 3-6 win cycle.

He's not their GM, he's the VP of football ops. Berry is very young and thought highly of, but it doesn't change my opinion on the picks they made.

Are you saying no other NFL teams have ever traded down, or are you saying Cleveland has never traded down? Because both would be wrong. Cleveland has done this shit twice in the last 10 years before Sashi, but the problem was we had idiots following up who wasted the picks we got, unlike Dorsey.

Also, I'm not sure how you think Dorsey would've come in and kept overpaid dead weight considering how he's gutted all but 6 of the guys from the past regime.

 

[Across The Field]

I hope you are right, but would you really be shocked if Dorsey moved on from him as he did not pick him? If Shoebert was to be extended now is the best time. Closer he gets to FA less likely he is not to wait.

I would be extremely shocked. Unless he's part of a trade where we're bringing in some big name guy, I have no reason to think he'll just let him walk. Unlike Ogbah, Nassib, Kindred, etc., Shobert has been an elite player - #11 LB last year according to PFF.

 

[dtgold88]

He's not their GM, he's the VP of football ops. Berry is very young and thought highly of, but it doesn't change my opinion on the picks they made.

Are you saying no other NFL teams have ever traded down, or are you saying Cleveland has never traded down? Because both would be wrong. Cleveland has done this shit twice in the last 10 years before Sashi, but the problem was we had idiots following up who wasted the picks we got, unlike Dorsey.

Also, I'm not sure how you think Dorsey would've come in and kept overpaid dead weight considering how he's gutted all but 6 of the guys from the past regime.

Last part is a fair point but he'd have brought in the Donte Whitner's of the world like past regimes did with what little cap space they had.

Nothing will change your opinion. I get it. Sashi bad. Dorsey good. Corbett should improve, everyone loves him. But Peppers nothing special...even though it was insisted he be included in OBJ deal.

And, yes, @Shanemansj13 ...a trade I am glad they made.

 

[dtgold88]

I would be extremely shocked. Unless he's part of a trade where we're bringing in some big name guy, I have no reason to think he'll just let him walk. Unlike Ogbah, Nassib, Kindred, etc., Shobert has been an elite player - #11 LB last year according to PFF.

Hope so...but as I said now would have been the time to do it. Pretty sure It was around this time Sashi resigned Bitonio and Kirksey. AFTER their second season.

 

[Shanemansj13]

Last part is a fair point but he'd have brought in the Donte Whitner's of the world like past regimes did with what little cap space they had.

Nothing will change your opinion. I get it. Sashi bad. Dorsey good. Corbett should improve, everyone loves him. But Peppers nothing special...even though it was insisted he be included in OBJ deal.

And, yes, @Shanemansj13 ...a trade I am glad they made.

Fair enough. We can't agree on everything. Last point, Sashi did a good job in short stint and did he set Dorsey up a little? Of course he did but Dorsey made the biggest moves to turn this team around imo.

 

[Shanemansj13]

Back to FA...what is Duke's value? I would think they want a player in return or a decent round pick.

 

[dtgold88]

Fair enough. We can't agree on everything. Last point, Sashi did a good job in short stint and did he set Dorsey up a little? Of course he did but Dorsey made the biggest moves to turn this team around imo.

No disagreement there. My only issue is with those who think Dorsey does no wrong and Sashi and his regime did nothing right.

Truth be told, I am just glad Haslem had the stomach to allow them to do a complete teardown. Paul D told Jimmy it would get real ugly and he might not want to attend games the first 2 years.

Interesting story.....Brother went to a seminar where Billy Beane was the keynote speaker shortly after Paul D was hired. Beane told him Paul D was the smartest guy he'd ever met. When asked if he would succeed here Beane said "if they let him."

 

[Across The Field]

Last part is a fair point but he'd have brought in the Donte Whitner's of the world like past regimes did with what little cap space they had.

Nothing will change your opinion. I get it. Sashi bad. Dorsey good. Corbett should improve, everyone loves him. But Peppers nothing special...even though it was insisted he be included in OBJ deal.

And, yes, @Shanemansj13 ...a trade I am glad they made.

Why would Dorsey have done that? What washed up, high-dollar players has he brought in to Cleveland?

Here's my opinion: Dorsey is a better GM than Sashi, and their respective histories overwhelmingly prove it. Thank you, Sashi, for simply trading down and handing the reins to a guy who knows what he's doing. For the 4th time, Corbett is an unknown, and again, if he sucks I'll criticize it appropriately.

Also, I've said Peppers played well for the second half of last year. That's accurate. And where is this information that says NYG "insisted" on him? How do you know Dorsey didn't just offer him and they said "OK, deal"?

 

[Shanemansj13]

Why would Dorsey have done that? What washed up, high-dollar players has he brought in to Cleveland?

Here's my opinion: Dorsey is a better GM than Sashi, and their respective histories overwhelmingly prove it. Thank you, Sashi, for simply trading down and handing the reins to a guy who knows what he's doing. For the 4th time, Corbett is an unknown, and again, if he sucks I'll criticize it appropriately.

Also, I've said Peppers played well for the second half of last year. That's accurate. And where is this information that says NYG "insisted" on him? How do you know Dorsey didn't just offer him and they said "OK, deal"?

Yeah, from what I heard the NYG wanted a player and they just lost Collins. I'm not sure who offered who but it just made sense for the Giants to include Peppers and picks.

Peppers had a very good half season but I mean how many players have seen where they have flashes of being a very good starter and it doesn't happen. He is a box safety, he can tackle but he isn't a coverage guy plain and simple. He was an impact player but we really don't know how good he can be or if he can do what he did on a consistent basis. That's how I feel about him personally.

So you trade a 3rd year player that had a solid 1/2 season. A late mid-round 1st and a 3rd acquired in an earlier trade with NE for a top 5 impact WR.

Peppers is replaceable in this draft alone and with guys that can actually play in coverage.
OBJ is not replaceable.

I just look at it like that - trade wise and Peppers value to the team.

 

[Across The Field]

Hope so...but as I said now would have been the time to do it. Pretty sure It was around this time Sashi resigned Bitonio and Kirksey. AFTER their second season.

They may be waiting to see how he improves this year before locking him up. While he's elite in pass def, he's the worst tackler in the NFL (league leading 25 missed tackles). He and Collins were horrible in that department last year, which was why our run defense was so bad. They may be evaluating his progression here and seeing what guys are available in the draft next year before signing him.

 

[Across The Field]

Yeah, from what I heard the NYG wanted a player and they just lost Collins. I'm not sure who offered who but it just made sense for the Giants to include Peppers and picks.

Peppers had a very good half season but I mean how many players have seen where they have flashes of being a very good starter and it doesn't happen. He is a box safety, he can tackle but he isn't a coverage guy plain and simple. He was an impact player but we really don't know how good he can be or if he can do what he did on a consistent basis. That's how I feel about him personally.

So you trade a 3rd year player that had a solid 1/2 season. A late mid-round 1st and a 3rd acquired in an earlier trade with NE for a top 5 impact WR.

Peppers is replaceable in this draft alone and with guys that can actually play in coverage.
OBJ is not replaceable.

I just look at it like that - trade wise and Peppers value to the team.

I'd love to see them grab Amani Hooker from Iowa. I think he has the potential to be a long-time solid, if not good, starter in the NFL. I'm also interested in what's in the tea leaves for Tre Boston and Eric Berry. I feel like something must be up with them since they haven't signed yet.

 

[dtgold88]

Why would Dorsey have done that? What washed up, high-dollar players has he brought in to Cleveland?

Here's my opinion: Dorsey is a better GM than Sashi, and their respective histories overwhelmingly prove it. Thank you, Sashi, for simply trading down and handing the reins to a guy who knows what he's doing. For the 4th time, Corbett is an unknown, and again, if he sucks I'll criticize it appropriately.

Also, I've said Peppers played well for the second half of last year. That's accurate. And where is this information that says NYG "insisted" on him? How do you know Dorsey didn't just offer him and they said "OK, deal"?

Can't recall where I read it, but said they had to get him because they lost Collins.

I would hope Dorsey is a better GM since Sashi is not a GM. Sashi - like Paul D - knows the cap and what guys are worth. He should have just been moved to the Strategy Dept. with him but someone had to be the fall guy.

For the 4th time Corbett - and Thomas - saw the field about as much as I did. something tells me you didn't wait to criticize Sashi guys. If I had to bet there were probably times you called Nassib and Shoebert busts. Amiright?

 

[dtgold88]

They may be waiting to see how he improves this year before locking him up. While he's elite in pass def, he's the worst tackler in the NFL (league leading 25 missed tackles). He and Collins were horrible in that department last year, which was why our run defense was so bad. They may be evaluating his progression here and seeing what guys are available in the draft next year before signing him.

could this have been scheme? I do wonder as both were better - especially Collins - without Greggggg, who I think is a terrible DC. Not sure if scheme would matter when it comes to missed tackels...though I don't recall that being such an issue with Shoebert in 2017.

 

[dtgold88]

Back to FA...what is Duke's value? I would think they want a player in return or a decent round pick.

If they can't get what they want I'd be inclined to keep him. What's he gonna do? Retire?

Or they cut him and sign Kniles Davis. I kid....I kid. Sort of.

 

[Across The Field]

Can't recall where I read it, but said they had to get him because they lost Collins.

I would hope Dorsey is a better GM since Sashi is not a GM. Sashi - like Paul D - knows the cap and what guys are worth. He should have just been moved to the Strategy Dept. with him but someone had to be the fall guy.

For the 4th time Corbett - and Thomas - saw the field about as much as I did. something tells me you didn't wait to criticize Sashi guys. If I had to bet there were probably times you called Nassib and Shoebert busts. Amiright?

Well so it's not that they necessarily insisted on him because he is such an amazing player, but maybe because they had a huge hole. Either way, I've seen nothing where NYG "insisted" on him.

Yes, I know Corbett and Thomas didn't play much. That's why I'm not going to criticize them yet. Nobody can, because we haven't seen them. They were both rookies who were buried on the depth chart, this is hardly an anomaly. My problem is you're trying to compare them both to guys who have been playing for 3 years regularly. That's not apples to apples, as you said. Also, Nassib and Shobert played double-digit games as rookies. Shobert, as I said earlier, is elite in pass def but awful in run defense. Nassib was just alright. Hard to call either of them busts considering they were 3rd/4th round players, so no, youarenotright.

 

[dtgold88]

Yeah, from what I heard the NYG wanted a player and they just lost Collins. I'm not sure who offered who but it just made sense for the Giants to include Peppers and picks.

Peppers had a very good half season but I mean how many players have seen where they have flashes of being a very good starter and it doesn't happen. He is a box safety, he can tackle but he isn't a coverage guy plain and simple. He was an impact player but we really don't know how good he can be or if he can do what he did on a consistent basis. That's how I feel about him personally.

So you trade a 3rd year player that had a solid 1/2 season. A late mid-round 1st and a 3rd acquired in an earlier trade with NE for a top 5 impact WR.

Peppers is replaceable in this draft alone and with guys that can actually play in coverage.
OBJ is not replaceable.

I just look at it like that - trade wise and Peppers value to the team.

I'll have to find it but pretty sure PFF rated Peppers pretty high among safeties last season. He'll be missed, but no way you hold up an OBJ trade to keep him

 

[dtgold88]

Well so it's not that they necessarily insisted on him because he is such an amazing player, but maybe because they had a huge hole. Either way, I've seen nothing where NYG "insisted" on him.

Yes, I know Corbett and Thomas didn't play much. That's why I'm not going to criticize them yet. Nobody can, because we haven't seen them. They were both rookies who were buried on the depth chart, this is hardly an anomaly. My problem is you're trying to compare them both to guys who have been playing for 3 years regularly. That's not apples to apples, as you said. Also, Nassib and Shobert played double-digit games as rookies. Shobert, as I said earlier, is elite in pass def but awful in run defense. Nassib was just alright. Hard to call either of them busts considering they were 3rd/4th round players, so no, youarenotright.

So then I'd still ask based on where they were picked where did Sashi miss so badly other than Coleman? Ogbah not a stud, sure, but he's not much less than what one would expect from a 2nd rounder, even high 2nd. Sure, we'd want more, but that's not often the case.

look at the heat he got for Kessler who has been far better than the guy Dorsey took only 1 round later - Aaron Murray.