The 2019 NFL Draft Thread

[Clayton]

As with all college QB's they need to go to the right scheme. Haskins would function best in a WCO where everything is based off timing and getting the ball out of his hands in a hurry. He is deadly on the short and intermediate throws. Ask him to hold onto the ball or get outside the pocket and the kid is very average.

He also needs to go to a team with an established OL that can protect him as pressure is definitely a concern with him.

Lock is a lot more scheme diverse but he isn't as deadly accurate. He needs to go to a team that will give him some time to work on his footwork and better understand defensive schemes being thrown at him. If he cleans up his feet I think he becomes an accurate enough QB to make something of his career. If he is thrown to the wolves day 1 then I think he struggles to ever develop.

Jones needs to go to a team that can get him on the move and let him use both his feet and arm. I wouldn't trust him with having to throw deep on a regular basis or any system that requires him to throw regularly outside the numbers as his arm just can't handle that. You get him some good weapons over the middle and allow him to move around some and he can make things function.

I agree with a lot of this. I think Haskins and Jones should be starting pretty much right away and give them WCO concepts the first half of the season and eventually work them into deep passes in the second half.

Lock should be on the bench for the first half of the season working on footwork and then give him the whole playbook and let him air it out in the second half of the season.

I don't understand the Lock to Denver rumors. Keenum was one of the worst starting QBs last year (28-31 range). I think Haskins or Jones makes more sense.

 

[Across The Field]

I agree with a lot of this. I think Haskins and Jones should be starting pretty much right away and give them WCO concepts the first half of the season and eventually work them into deep passes in the second half.

Lock should be on the bench for the first half of the season working on footwork and then give him the whole playbook and let him air it out in the second half of the season.

I don't understand the Lock to Denver rumors. Keenum was one of the worst starting QBs last year (28-31 range). I think Haskins or Jones makes more sense.

I'm thinking Haskins may be a bit too rich for Denver's blood. They're gonna need to trade up from 10 likely into the top 5, and that'll take some major scratch.

I honestly wouldn't be shocked if Cincinnati went a different direction at QB, and Dalton can be cut with 0 dead money. If that's the case, I could see him in Denver. Elway is so bad at developing QB talent, it makes sense for him to go after a veteran instead. Plus it's not like they're in overhaul mode; a decent vet QB could get them back in the playoff hunt.

 

[Clayton]

I'm thinking Haskins may be a bit too rich for Denver's blood. They're gonna need to trade up from 10 likely into the top 5, and that'll take some major scratch.

I think it would be less than you think. There are basically only three top shelf prospects right now.

 

[Across The Field]

I think it would be less than you think. There are basically only three top shelf prospects right now.

True, but the teams in the top 5 all have major needs that can be addressed by the players available (mostly EDGE). TB could be a trade partner, but my guess is if Denver is trading up from 10 to 5, it'll also cost them their 2nd rounder, and I'm not sure Elway is gonna pull the trigger with where his team currently is and how poorly they've developed rookie QBs. It doesn't make much sense to me.

 

[Clayton]

True, but the teams in the top 5 all have major needs that can be addressed by the players available (mostly EDGE). TB could be a trade partner, but my guess is if Denver is trading up from 10 to 5, it'll also cost them their 2nd rounder, and I'm not sure Elway is gonna pull the trigger with where his team currently is and how poorly they've developed rookie QBs. It doesn't make much sense to me.

What doesn't make sense? They need a QB next year. They had a good draft last year and they have a good defense.

The 'how poorly they've developed rookie QBs' thing is not how anyone should think. You'll get nowhere in life if you worry about independent variables impacting future independent variables.

 

[Across The Field]

What doesn't make sense? They need a QB next year. They had a good draft last year and they have a good defense.

The 'how poorly they've developed rookie QBs' thing is not how anyone should think. You'll get nowhere in life if you worry about independent variables impacting future independent variables.

Oh I agree. They had a great draft last year and they have the pieces to be a really good team. That's why I don't think it makes sense to go draft a rookie QB over going out and getting a veteran. They're built to compete now, and I don't think any of the rookie QBs are going to be ready to come in right away and take them to where they want to go.

 

[cdumler7]

I agree with a lot of this. I think Haskins and Jones should be starting pretty much right away and give them WCO concepts the first half of the season and eventually work them into deep passes in the second half.

Lock should be on the bench for the first half of the season working on footwork and then give him the whole playbook and let him air it out in the second half of the season.

I don't understand the Lock to Denver rumors. Keenum was one of the worst starting QBs last year (28-31 range). I think Haskins or Jones makes more sense.

Couple things here...

1) You are right that Keenum was not a great starter last year. The question becomes was that all Keenum and he is just that bad or with better coaching/talent around him could he improve? He showed that what he did well with Minnesota he still did well with the Broncos but the problem was the Bronco coaching staff did not use him well to his strengths. One could argue they asked him to do everything opposite of what he did in Minnesota.

2) If you believe that Lock will be the best QB in this draft then you get him. Yes you might have to suffer through say half a year with Keenum and see if you can hold on to still compete for the playoffs but to me you are willing to sacrifice one year to let your QB develop and see what they can do.

Personally I have Lock over that of Haskins because of ceiling. Haskins is limited to WCO system to be successful. Nothing wrong with that as plenty of QB's function well wtihin that system. Lock just has a little more versatility with his arm and I think personality wise he is above that of Haskins.

 

[Across The Field]

Couple things here...

1) You are right that Keenum was not a great starter last year. The question becomes was that all Keenum and he is just that bad or with better coaching/talent around him could he improve? He showed that what he did well with Minnesota he still did well with the Broncos but the problem was the Bronco coaching staff did not use him well to his strengths. One could argue they asked him to do everything opposite of what he did in Minnesota.

2) If you believe that Lock will be the best QB in this draft then you get him. Yes you might have to suffer through say half a year with Keenum and see if you can hold on to still compete for the playoffs but to me you are willing to sacrifice one year to let your QB develop and see what they can do.

Personally I have Lock over that of Haskins because of ceiling. Haskins is limited to WCO system to be successful. Nothing wrong with that as plenty of QB's function well wtihin that system. Lock just has a little more versatility with his arm and I think personality wise he is above that of Haskins.

Based on what? Haskins is going to nail his interviews during the combine. He's a fantastic kid with no negatives to do with his personality.

Also, this whole "Haskins can only play in a WC offense" narrative is a bit ridiculous. He has a phenomenal deep ball and can hit anywhere on the field. He didn't do great under duress last year, but he also wasn't horrific. It was his first year starting, so there are going to be some areas of improvement obviously.

 

[cdumler7]

Based on what? Haskins is going to nail his interviews during the combine. He's a fantastic kid with no negatives to do with his personality.

Also, this whole "Haskins can only play in a WC offense" narrative is a bit ridiculous. He has a phenomenal deep ball and can hit anywhere on the field. He didn't do great under duress last year, but he also wasn't horrific. It was his first year starting, so there are going to be some areas of improvement obviously.

I've talked to a lot of people around the NFL and yeah Haskins will do well in the interviews. This isn't me trying to take a shot at his personality or anything of that nature. I just think Lock will come across as a little more seasoned and ready to go for NFL teams.

As for his deep ball...I'm not sure what you have been watching. His deep ball is inconsistent at best. If you only look at the raw stats of his deep ball sure I could see how you arrive at that conclusion as his stats are not terrible. When you actually watch the throws though he is not great. Ball placement, timing, clutch ability are all things he lacks on the deep ball. Go watch any time he was asked to fit a deep ball into a tight window and the guy can't do it. Most of his deep ball completions were to guys that were wide open. Heck I"ve talked to people around the league that have said one of his biggest concerns is the fact that he doesn't like to throw the deep ball. He could have a receiver wide open down the field as he had many times this year and chose to take the quick hitter or dump off pass instead.

Yes Haskins has plenty of time to improve on all of these areas. For me personally though I'm not drafting him in a Bruce Arians style offense. Put him in place of Tom Brady and what the Pats do though and the kid could become a star.

 

[mcnabb7542]

Based on what? Haskins is going to nail his interviews during the combine. He's a fantastic kid with no negatives to do with his personality.

Also, this whole "Haskins can only play in a WC offense" narrative is a bit ridiculous. He has a phenomenal deep ball and can hit anywhere on the field. He didn't do great under duress last year, but he also wasn't horrific. It was his first year starting, so there are going to be some areas of improvement obviously.

 

[Across The Field]

I've talked to a lot of people around the NFL and yeah Haskins will do well in the interviews. This isn't me trying to take a shot at his personality or anything of that nature. I just think Lock will come across as a little more seasoned and ready to go for NFL teams.

As for his deep ball...I'm not sure what you have been watching. His deep ball is inconsistent at best. If you only look at the raw stats of his deep ball sure I could see how you arrive at that conclusion as his stats are not terrible. When you actually watch the throws though he is not great. Ball placement, timing, clutch ability are all things he lacks on the deep ball. Go watch any time he was asked to fit a deep ball into a tight window and the guy can't do it. Most of his deep ball completions were to guys that were wide open. Heck I"ve talked to people around the league that have said one of his biggest concerns is the fact that he doesn't like to throw the deep ball. He could have a receiver wide open down the field as he had many times this year and chose to take the quick hitter or dump off pass instead.

Yes Haskins has plenty of time to improve on all of these areas. For me personally though I'm not drafting him in a Bruce Arians style offense. Put him in place of Tom Brady and what the Pats do though and the kid could become a star.

I'm understandably skeptical of an anonymous message board poster who says they've "talked to a lot of people around the NFL" as backing for their opinions, but your analysis is dead wrong. He has a fantastic deep ball, and he displayed it quite often this season. Also, I'm not sure what Dwayne Haskins you've watched to make you think he can't fit it into a tight window, because that's another thing he's demonstrated many times.

 

[Across The Field]

Uh.. I wasn't getting riled up at all. Just a simple statement, dude.

 

[mcnabb7542]

Uh.. I wasn't getting riled up at all. Just a simple statement, dude.

I know was bustin your chops

 

[cdumler7]

I'm understandably skeptical of an anonymous message board poster who says they've "talked to a lot of people around the NFL" as backing for their opinions, but your analysis is dead wrong. He has a fantastic deep ball, and he displayed it quite often this season. Also, I'm not sure what Dwayne Haskins you've watched to make you think he can't fit it into a tight window, because that's another thing he's demonstrated many times.

Well if you want my credentials to prove my connections then I can definitely provide you with those. I write for 24/7 sports which is owned by CBS. I'm also part of a podcast that has thousands of listeners for every episode getting guests like Benjamin Allbright on our show.

As for the tight window throw that was directly related just to the deep ball. He is very capable of fitting it into a tight window on anything 15 yards and shorter. Like I said if I am running an offense that highlights those kind of throws then Haskins is easily my top QB in this draft. Personally I like an offense that challenges all parts of the field on a little more regular basis leading to him not being my top QB.

 

[Across The Field]

Well if you want my credentials to prove my connections then I can definitely provide you with those. I write for 24/7 sports which is owned by CBS. I'm also part of a podcast that has thousands of listeners for every episode getting guests like Benjamin Allbright on our show.

As for the tight window throw that was directly related just to the deep ball. He is very capable of fitting it into a tight window on anything 15 yards and shorter. Like I said if I am running an offense that highlights those kind of throws then Haskins is easily my top QB in this draft. Personally I like an offense that challenges all parts of the field on a little more regular basis leading to him not being my top QB.

If true, then fair enough.

At any rate, he had plenty of examples of being able to throw a very accurate deep ball last year. It's not his greatest strength, sure, but it certainly isn't a glaring weakness. I'd also argue nobody in this class has this as a strength, and honestly not many rookies do in general. Baker was an exception this year, and there have been a few others, but you're not going to find it often, even from top of the first round selections. It's also something that can be coached.

 

[DJ]

Simmons tore his ACL.....damn.

 

[Clayton]

If true, then fair enough.

At any rate, he had plenty of examples of being able to throw a very accurate deep ball last year. It's not his greatest strength, sure, but it certainly isn't a glaring weakness. I'd also argue nobody in this class has this as a strength, and honestly not many rookies do in general. Baker was an exception this year, and there have been a few others, but you're not going to find it often, even from top of the first round selections. It's also something that can be coached.

I think Lock has the solid deep ball. He struggles with footwork but when he doesn't its fairly well developed for a college prospect.

The important thing is that it can be coached. Draftniks thought Deshaun Watson had a bad deep ball coming out of college.

 

[Fountain City Blues]

Simmons tore his ACL.....damn.

Someone is getting a good player for pennies on the dollar if this is that is the Simmons I think it is.

 

[cdumler7]

Someone is getting a good player for pennies on the dollar if this is that is the Simmons I think it is.

I honestly could get behind using a 2nd round pick on the kid. The talent is special.

 

[Clayton]

Matt Miller's list of overrated prospects led with...


Dwayne Haskins, QB, Ohio State

"He's probably QB1 in this class, but that doesn't mean he's a good quarterback. This is a bad draft for passers, but he's still going top five. It's just how the league works now." — AFC scouting director

"Haskins scares me, but he has the most traits to work with. Still, he's not [Jared] Goff or anything. He would have been QB4 in last year's class." — NFC area scout