The 2019-20 Cleveland Cavaliers: Exhibit A for HS Players Not to Enter the NBA Draft

[TrustMeIamRight]

Agree but the Cavs gave up two limb dicks for him and Gilbert has a huge pocketbook. Give it a full trial run next season but I agree, I dont think he is worth anything close to max

The fact Detroit would take two limp dicks with expiring contracts should tell you how he was viewed here.
They just wanted to make sure he couldn't opt in to that extra year and we'd be stuck with him again.

Really nice guy. He will have some great games, but he will have fans pulling their hair out with some of his antics

 

[HurricaneDij39]

This is where I completely disagree, Love, Tristan and even Drummond offer the leadership, veteran presence and way to teach these young guys how to win but what they need most is a STAR, plain and simple. The only way to achieve this is through the draft. There is no way the Cavs can acquire a crafty veteran that is also a star or all-star if that's what you are saying...they can only build through the draft or like they did with Drummond...take a chance with a trade for a pricey young talented player whose value is somewhat low to that team.

But honestly I am not sure how any of this applies to young players entering the draft considering HS players cannot do this unless they play one season overseas and technically they would be about the same age as a player staying in college for one year. Also, every player is different so lumping them all together isn't really fair.

The point is that while you might not want to hear it, Darius Garland (from my NWI region, in that) may already be that "star" you've been pinning all your hopes on landing. This upcoming draft class is quite weak with plenty of busy potential, like in 2000 and again in 2013.

It's been 17 years since LeBron came through the draft, and it's a safe bet that you'll still be waiting for the next LeBron come the year 2033. Zion was the closest to being that level of prospect, and he too is a physical freak.

Because of how unlikely it is that you'll land that level of player, you'd be best to focus your efforts on improving the little things about your team. Even during their finals runs, the Cavs were among the worst defensive teams in the NBA. And who has been the common denominator among those poorly-rated defensive teams???

Kevin Love.

 

[msgkings322]

The point is that while you might not want to hear it, Darius Garland (from my NWI region, in that) may already be that "star" you've been pinning all your hopes on landing. This upcoming draft class is quite weak with plenty of busy potential, like in 2000 and again in 2013.

It's been 17 years since LeBron came through the draft, and it's a safe bet that you'll still be waiting for the next LeBron come the year 2033. Zion was the closest to being that level of prospect, and he too is a physical freak.

Because of how unlikely it is that you'll land that level of player, you'd be best to focus your efforts on improving the little things about your team. Even during their finals runs, the Cavs were among the worst defensive teams in the NBA. And who has been the common denominator among those poorly-rated defensive teams???

Kevin Love.

Credit where it's due, great post.

That's good to remind ourselves how little help LeBron had on those finals teams. He had plenty of help on offense, none on D. He didn't have an all time defensive great next to him (Pippen and Jordan, Kobe and Shaq, Klay and Dray but seriously two great defenders). It was LeBron and...uh...yeah.

But LeBron what a loser, always losing those finals. All him.

 

[tlance]

Credit where it's due, great post.

That's good to remind ourselves how little help LeBron had on those finals teams. He had plenty of help on offense, none on D. He didn't have an all time defensive great next to him (Pippen and Jordan, Kobe and Shaq, Klay and Dray but seriously two great defenders). It was LeBron and...uh...yeah.

But LeBron what a loser, always losing those finals. All him.

Every time this argument comes up, there are people out there who try to call Cleveland a “Super Team”.

What a load of BS.

They were very good. LeBron was far and away the main reason.

 

[Heatles84]

So,

your position is that high school players should not enter the NBA directly and you are using 3 players who didn’t enter the NBA directly out of high school as evidence for that?

Brilliant.

More time in college is definitely best for teams to evaluate what players can actually do. As for the player, it depends on the individual.

There are a small number of 5 star recruits who are going to be NBA players and it is obvious. Now, hard to say for sure if they are good enough to be stars (in most cases) until they play against higher levels of competition, but it is pretty clear that Jalen Green and Cade Cunningham are going to be NBA players.

for the best of the best it works fine. They learn on the NBA level, they take some extra time to develop, but their careers still play out well. As long as it is like it was before with 3-5 kids declaring, it will be fine.

Now, when random 4 stars start declaring then we might have issues.

This. A thousand times this.

 

[Heatles84]

Every time this argument comes up, there are people out there who try to call Cleveland a “Super Team”.

What a load of BS.

They were very good. LeBron was far and away the main reason.

On paper they were. When they got on the court though, different story.

Their defense was beyond mediocre.

And it seemed like many on here tried explaining the defensive deficiencies that Love and Kyrie had.

Amazing how right we were.

 

[trojanfan12]

On paper they were. When they got on the court though, different story.

^^^This^^^

The Cavs were a superteam, or at least they were intended to be. It just so happened there was a superer team in their way.

 

[msgkings322]

On paper they were. When they got on the court though, different story.

Their defense was beyond mediocre.

And it seemed like many on here tried explaining the defensive deficiencies that Love and Kyrie had.

Amazing how right we were.

How are they a super team on paper if they can't play D? If people thought they were a super team those people were dumb. They weren't

 

[dtgold88]

The point is that while you might not want to hear it, Darius Garland (from my NWI region, in that) may already be that "star" you've been pinning all your hopes on landing. This upcoming draft class is quite weak with plenty of busy potential, like in 2000 and again in 2013.

It's been 17 years since LeBron came through the draft, and it's a safe bet that you'll still be waiting for the next LeBron come the year 2033. Zion was the closest to being that level of prospect, and he too is a physical freak.

Because of how unlikely it is that you'll land that level of player, you'd be best to focus your efforts on improving the little things about your team. Even during their finals runs, the Cavs were among the worst defensive teams in the NBA. And who has been the common denominator among those poorly-rated defensive teams???

Kevin Love.

don't want to break it to you, but Lebron, JR and TT were on all 4 teams.

 

[dtgold88]

Every time this argument comes up, there are people out there who try to call Cleveland a “Super Team”.

What a load of BS.

They were very good. LeBron was far and away the main reason.

Mostly agree......but I think the 2017 Cavs were as good or better than most Finals' teams we've seen this millenium.....just ran into maybe the best team we've seen.

 

[dtgold88]

On paper they were. When they got on the court though, different story.

Their defense was beyond mediocre.

And it seemed like many on here tried explaining the defensive deficiencies that Love and Kyrie had.

Amazing how right we were.

Is Curry a defensive wiz of some kind? Here's a flash...their offense does matter. That 2017 Cavs team could stand up to most Finals teams this millennium other than GS.

 

[dtgold88]

How are they a super team on paper if they can't play D? If people thought they were a super team those people were dumb. They weren't

Other than GS, which teams are you sure were better this millennium? They could play adequate D and their O was often unstoppable. O matters.

 

[tlance]

Mostly agree......but I think the 2017 Cavs were as good or better than most Finals' teams we've seen this millenium.....just ran into maybe the best team we've seen.

A “Super Team” has multiple superstars and a 3rd star.

The KD Warriors, the LeBron Heat, the showtime Lakers, the Bulls.

The Cleveland Cavaliers never had that.

They were not a super team. Not on paper, not on the court. Very good and championship worthy. Still not a “super team”.

 

[tlance]

Mostly agree......but I think the 2017 Cavs were as good or better than most Finals' teams we've seen this millenium.....just ran into maybe the best team we've seen.

Eh.

I think these were definitely better:

Warriors
12 and 13 Heat
13 and 14 Spurs

Maybe as good or better than all others? Maybe not. Impossible to say. They didn’t beat any great teams.

 

[dtgold88]

A “Super Team” has multiple superstars and a 3rd star.

The KD Warriors, the LeBron Heat, the showtime Lakers, the Bulls.

The Cleveland Cavaliers never had that.

They were not a super team. Not on paper, not on the court. Very good and championship worthy. Still not a “super team”.

Kyrie was a superstar with the 2016 and 2017 Cavaliers. Nuts but a star. Love a quality 3rd star. 2017 Cavs also had better role players than the Heat IMO.

 

[dtgold88]

Eh.

I think these were definitely better:

Warriors
12 and 13 Heat
13 and 14 Spurs

Maybe as good or better than all others? Maybe not. Impossible to say. They didn’t beat any great teams.

arguably? I'd say sure....but also arguable the 2017 Cavs were better than all but 2017-18 Warriors who might be all time best.

 

[Shanemansj13]

The point is that while you might not want to hear it, Darius Garland (from my NWI region, in that) may already be that "star" you've been pinning all your hopes on landing. This upcoming draft class is quite weak with plenty of busy potential, like in 2000 and again in 2013.

It's been 17 years since LeBron came through the draft, and it's a safe bet that you'll still be waiting for the next LeBron come the year 2033. Zion was the closest to being that level of prospect, and he too is a physical freak.

Because of how unlikely it is that you'll land that level of player, you'd be best to focus your efforts on improving the little things about your team. Even during their finals runs, the Cavs were among the worst defensive teams in the NBA. And who has been the common denominator among those poorly-rated defensive teams???

Kevin Love.

Lets be clear....there will never be the next Lebron, even find a prospect on to close to his level with be near impossible. Even while Lebron was still there, the roster was shit lets remember that. He had to leave to go to Miami and let them rebuild, draft another future star, Kyrie, before the plan really worked out. The plan this time around should be getting a group of young, talented young guys and hoping you find a star in that group, like you said, the Cavs could already have that star whether it is Porter Jr, Garland, etc.

And I could care less if the level of prospect is very high...that doesn't always mean they will be a great player. I care more about results and getting the pick right. I don't see the Cavs getting lucky and getting so many tries at #1 pick like they did for years so their picks and their eye for talent will have to be more precise this time around.

I agree about how poor they were defensively in Lebron's second stint except the year they won the title, they were 10th. Lebron's first stint was the opposite, they had very good to great defensive teams but a lack of offensive talent around Lebron.

Point is, if the player is good enough to come straight from high school...he should. (even though technically you can't now) It all depends on the player, like in Zion's case it could have helped him.

Like I said earlier the plan should be developing these young players that could turn into stars, surrounding them with even more talent, somehow getting out of the Love contract and not resigning Drummond and let the process work out. But in the end the Cavs will have to rebuild through the draft 100 out of 100 times.

 

[Shanemansj13]

Credit where it's due, great post.

That's good to remind ourselves how little help LeBron had on those finals teams. He had plenty of help on offense, none on D. He didn't have an all time defensive great next to him (Pippen and Jordan, Kobe and Shaq, Klay and Dray but seriously two great defenders). It was LeBron and...uh...yeah.

But LeBron what a loser, always losing those finals. All him.

Lets also remember how little help he had in his first stint. Those were actually really good defensive teams and they had a good defensive coach but the lack of offensive talent was a disgrace. Lebron was the offense.

 

[Shanemansj13]

^^^This^^^

The Cavs were a suoerteam, or at least they were intended to be. It just so happened there was a superer team in their way.

Yeah and as much as I like to say they would still be together if it wasn't for those great W's teams, I still can't believe that...Kyrie was a nutcase...nothing works long-term with him lol.

 

[tlance]

Kyrie was a superstar with the 2016 and 2017 Cavaliers. Nuts but a star. Love a quality 3rd star. 2017 Cavs also had better role players than the Heat IMO.

Yeah, I disagree strongly.

You may have a different definition of superstar than me. Superstars are 1st team all NBA caliber guys. Kyrie has never been in that class of players. He didn’t even make 3rd team those years.

You could make an argument for him last year with the Celtics I suppose, but even then I would say no.