Tank for Jones / 2013 Draft Thread

[awaz]

i dont really understand the nurse hype to be honest.. it seems like he's an awesome athlete, true, but i haven't really read anything that tells me his hockey-specific skills are worthy of a top 5-7 pick in the draft. i cant really judge because i've never seen him play, but other guys have reports that talk about 'hockey sense' or 'best shot in the draft'.. stuff like that

 

[lasgop8]

i dont really understand the nurse hype to be honest.. it seems like he's an awesome athlete, true, but i haven't really read anything that tells me his hockey-specific skills are worthy of a top 5-7 pick in the draft. i cant really judge because i've never seen him play, but other guys have reports that talk about 'hockey sense' or 'best shot in the draft'.. stuff like that

We need an offensive defenseman so if he's still there at 11 might as well grab him.

 

[awaz]

We need an offensive defenseman so if he's still there at 11 might as well grab him.

i agree, but to me, pulock seems like the better pick. 'best slap shot in the draft' is pretty enticing to me.. far more enticing than 'physical specimen that likes to use the body' at least

 

[lasgop8]

i agree, but to me, pulock seems like the better pick. 'best slap shot in the draft' is pretty enticing to me.. far more enticing than 'physical specimen that likes to use the body' at least

I'll take a defenseman with speed or a great shot or a big hitter or anything else that could make us win the cup.

 

[awaz]

I'll take a defenseman with speed or a great shot or a big hitter or anything else that could make us win the cup.

truth!

my opinion is that the flyers don't need any physical/shutdown dmen at this point. shots >>> hitting/skating at this point for the flyers IMO

 

[flyersfan4706]

i dont really understand the nurse hype to be honest.. it seems like he's an awesome athlete, true, but i haven't really read anything that tells me his hockey-specific skills are worthy of a top 5-7 pick in the draft. i cant really judge because i've never seen him play, but other guys have reports that talk about 'hockey sense' or 'best shot in the draft'.. stuff like that

Nurse just comes off to me as the complete package with a higher upside. Don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking on Pulock's defensive ability. Pulock is my 2nd (realistic) pick in the draft.

 

[awaz]

Nurse just comes off to me as the complete package with a higher upside. Don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking on Pulock's defensive ability. Pulock is my 2nd (realistic) pick in the draft.

i dont mean to be defensive (har har) over pulock, just my opinion based on all the opinions of other people that i've read haha.. tough to really judge either guy because i've never seen them play, it just seems like nurse is an athlete that is learning hockey whereas pulock is a hockey player.. if that makes any sense.. and even if pulock is a little one dimensional, it's the one dimension that the flyers are sorely lacking

obviously upside is good to see, and ultra-athletes will usually have the higher upside, but he just seems risky to me because you never read about his hockey skills.. just 'upside', 'physical', and 'athletic'. my concern is the flyers being blinded by the 'physical' part.

i'm real curious to see how jones pans out too, because in very limited viewing, i wasn't super impressed by him at world juniors.. goes against what every scout and legitimate hockey source everywhere says, but that's just my takeaway.. obviously wouldn't be pissed if the flyers somehow got him because i believe them over i believe me, just a thought that i had while watching the WJC

edit: nice rambling you

 

[flyersfan4706]

i dont mean to be defensive (har har) over pulock, just my opinion based on all the opinions of other people that i've read haha.. tough to really judge either guy because i've never seen them play, it just seems like nurse is an athlete that is learning hockey whereas pulock is a hockey player.. if that makes any sense.. and even if pulock is a little one dimensional, it's the one dimension that the flyers are sorely lacking

obviously upside is good to see, and ultra-athletes will usually have the higher upside, but he just seems risky to me because you never read about his hockey skills.. just 'upside', 'physical', and 'athletic'. my concern is the flyers being blinded by the 'physical' part.

i'm real curious to see how jones pans out too, because in very limited viewing, i wasn't super impressed by him at world juniors.. goes against what every scout and legitimate hockey source everywhere says, but that's just my takeaway.. obviously wouldn't be pissed if the flyers somehow got him because i believe them over i believe me, just a thought that i had while watching the WJC

edit: nice rambling you

Frankly, you're convincing me. To me it is kind of like our Zadarov situation, a solid yet redundant defenseman on the Flyers. In the end I'll be very happy if we pick Pulock, or even Morrissey. The nearing departure of Timonen will kill any ability our D core has of moving the puck.

 

[awaz]

Frankly, you're convincing me. To me it is kind of like our Zadarov situation, a solid yet redundant defenseman on the Flyers. In the end I'll be very happy if we pick Pulock, or even Morrissey. The nearing departure of Timonen will kill any ability our D core has of moving the puck.

exactly. the flyers need an offensive defensemen first. IMO, an elite offensive dman would be better than a solid 2-way guy. obviously i wouldn't hate a solid two way guy, and if you can find an elite 2-way guy even better.. but they do NOT need a defensive minded guy, or a physical guy.

i like morrissey a lot too, and it's not like elite dmen haven't been picked in the late teens (erik karlsson ).. if pulock is gone i would love it if the flyers traded down a few spots and still got morrissey.. that would be my gameplan i think

all this is probably for naught as the flyers will probably just pick a center again..

 

[lasgop8]

How does teams like Boston come up with defenseman that you put directly into the playoffs and score a couple of goals and we cant come up with one.

 

[awaz]

How does teams like Boston come up with defenseman that you put directly into the playoffs and score a couple of goals and we cant come up with one.

krug was an undrafted free agent too.. i'm sure the flyers were after him, like they were with dekeyser and shultz.. just sucks nobody picks the flyers.

 

[lasgop8]

krug was an undrafted free agent too.. i'm sure the flyers were after him, like they were with dekeyser and shultz.. just sucks nobody picks the flyers.

The only undrafted free agents the pick Philly are forwards because of our system. If i was a free agent defenseman i would pick boston too

 

[awaz]

HockeyBuzz.com - Adam French - Draft Spotlight : Flyers

middle of reading it, but this quote stood out

It is interesting to note that the Flyers might be the best first round drafting team in recent history. Most every forward they have drafted in the first has turned out to be an above-average to star-caliber player: Dainius Zubrus, Simon Gagné, Justin Williams, Jeff Carter, Mike Richards, Steve Downie, Claude Giroux, James van Riemsdyk and Sean Couturier.

edit1: his description of ristolainen reminds me of pronger

edit2: pulock

 

[awaz]

its actually to the point where if the flyers dont get pulock, i might spiral into a depression similar to a kid losing their puppy.








but if he's available and they dont take him.. the rage.. ohh the rage..

 

[lasgop8]

its actually to the point where if the flyers dont get pulock, i might spiral into a depression similar to a kid losing their puppy.








but if he's available and they dont take him.. the rage.. ohh the rage..

I suggest staying away from open windows and tossing all sharp objects from the house 1 week prior to the draft just in case

 

[lasgop8]

HockeyBuzz.com - Adam French - Draft Spotlight : Flyers

middle of reading it, but this quote stood out



edit1: his description of ristolainen reminds me of pronger

edit2: pulock

I personally think our defense looks 100% better this year than the last 2 years just by the fact we will be getting rid of that swiss chesse goaltender.

 

[awaz]

The only undrafted free agents the pick Philly are forwards because of our system. If i was a free agent defenseman i would pick boston too

they did get gus.. and i'm hoping they find a way to sign joacim ericsson (former draft pick, his rights expired though).. the goalie guild has him as a 'top 3 goalie outside the NHL' right now

I suggest staying away from open windows and tossing all sharp objects from the house 1 week prior to the draft just in case

i know man.. i'm obsessed haha

I personally think our defense looks 100% better this year than the last 2 years just by the fact we will be getting rid of that swiss chesse goaltender.

i agree.. french hardly mentioned ghost, but he's looked real good since the flyers drafted him.. i have hopes that he could be a top 4 puck-mover type guy

 

[flyersfan4706]

exactly. the flyers need an offensive defensemen first. IMO, an elite offensive dman would be better than a solid 2-way guy. obviously i wouldn't hate a solid two way guy, and if you can find an elite 2-way guy even better.. but they do NOT need a defensive minded guy, or a physical guy.

i like morrissey a lot too, and it's not like elite dmen haven't been picked in the late teens (erik karlsson ).. if pulock is gone i would love it if the flyers traded down a few spots and still got morrissey.. that would be my gameplan i think

all this is probably for naught as the flyers will probably just pick a center again..

I'd actually really like trading down and taking Morrissey. If we can pick up another 2nd round pick we'll still get a solid prospect.

 

[awaz]

I'd actually really like trading down and taking Morrissey. If we can pick up another 2nd round pick we'll still get a solid prospect.

definitely. just gotta make sure you dont trade down far enough that you miss morrissey.. he seems to be rising the charts a good bit lately

 

[awaz]

from the main board:

brief write-ups on the likely first round prospects

Hockey Prospectus | Top 100 Draft Prospects 2013: 1-5
Hockey Prospectus | Top 100 Draft Prospects 2013: 6-10
Hockey Prospectus | Top 100 Draft Prospects 2013: 11-15
Hockey Prospectus | Top 100 Draft Prospects 2013: 16-20
Hockey Prospectus | Top 100 Draft Prospects 2013: 21-30
Hockey Prospectus | Top 100 Draft Prospects 2013: 31-40

couple that we've talked a lot about in case you dont want to sift through:

8. Rasmus Ristolainen, Defense, TPS (SM-Liiga)

Ristolainen had a quality season in Finland, where he often logged tough, heavy minutes for TPS. That is an impressive role for an 18-year-old defenseman in that league. He is not a flashy player, but he does everything well. He best skill is his hockey sense. He thinks the game at a level well beyond his years, and he does not make many mistakes on the ice. He is an aware, effective defenseman who can close gaps with his body or with his stick. With the puck, he shows calmness, but he can process the game quickly when the situation calls for it. He can man the point on the power play. He is a solid to above-average skater (I have heard an NHL scout classify him as high end in that area). His puck handling is at a similar level; he can flash significant offensive ability, but the bulk of value will come from his work in his own zone. To that point, he will lay the body, and he can provide quality hits. He could fast track to the NHL quicker than a typical defense prospect.

Ranking explanation: Monahan and Ristolainen are grouped together because they are "safe prospects." Like all draftees, they still possess a level of risk, but I am substantially less concerned about their development than with players of similar talent level, such as Max Domi or Hunter Shinkaruk. Domi is an undersized player, and some wonder how his physical game will project at the top level. He does not possess the same skill level as Drouin, nor does he have the strength and defensive ability of Lindholm. His talent level is close to Monahan's (an average top line center), but he has more risk, due to his limited size, and his less-rounded game.

11. Darnell Nurse, Defense, Sault Ste. Marie (OHL)

Nurse had a considerable amount of hype at the beginning of the season, and he has exceeded all expectations. He is a gifted physical player who has all the natural tools a scout could want from a defenseman. He has slowly begun to emerge as a two-way player, but his value comes from his high-end work in his own end. Nurse is a tall defender with an aggressive edge and the strength to consistently push his checks off pucks. He has above-average mobility, especially considering his larger size. With his wingspan, he is able to make a multitude of plays in the defensive end. I have heard previous concerns from scouts about his offensive upside, but he took a step forward in that element this season. He will not be a dynamic offensive threat, but he can move the puck at an above-average level, and join the rush on occasion. He projects as a point man on a second power play unit, while logging the tough defensive minutes. Nurse's next level of progression will have to come from his below-average shot.

Ranking explanation: From a value standpoint, I see Ryan Pulock as comparable to Nurse, but they are different kinds of players. Pulock has better offensive hockey sense, a drastically better shot, and better hands. Nurse is a better skater with more imposing physicality and overall defensive ability. Nurse gets the edge because I see him as a safer choice. Scouts are divided on Pulock's skating and defensive ability, whereas reports on Nurse are unanimously glowing. It is also dangerous to overrate a player who derives a bulk of his value from his shot, such as Pulock, as there is more uncertainty when translating that skill to the next level.

12. Ryan Pulock, Defense, Brandon (WHL)

Finding the perfect spot for Pulock was difficult. Some scouts consider him to be a top-eight player in this draft, whereas others prefer him in the 11-15 range. Despite concerns, he has been one of the WHL's top offensive defensemen for the past three seasons. He tied for the points lead among all Wheat Kings this year. His best tool is his shot, which is elite, and NHL teams will utilize it atop the umbrella on their first power play unit. It has been clocked at over 100 miles per hour in skills competitions. His offensive game is well rounded, as he is a high-end thinker who has been described as a methodical puck mover. Pulock always seems to make the right decisions, whether it is to rush, pass, or shoot. Defensively, he is strong on his checks, controls his gaps well, and generally stays with his assignments. Still, he is prone to a breakdown at certain times. The biggest criticism of Pulock is his skating. Some scouts describe it as average, others as above average. Despite having solid mobility, he does not seem to have a blazing top gear. His game is more based on feel than dangling or pushing the pace.

Ranking explanation: The difference between Pulock and Andre Burakowsky is not one of upside, but one of risk. Burakowsky may have more potential than Pulock, but I approach Burakowsky with an above-average level of uncertainty. He was inconsistent this season, and there have been some concerns about his skill set. Pulock's record of success in the WHL for three years running makes him a more stable selection. Teams know what they will be getting with him. His flaws are evident, but not enough to push him out of this range. He projects as a top pairing defenseman without a moderate risk element. Burakowsky, and the prospects immediately after him, all have notable question marks either regarding risk factors or that bring their ultimate upsides into doubt.

20. Josh Morrissey, Defense, Prince Albert (WHL)

Morrissey is a dynamic offensive defenseman with a ton of plus skills. He has amassed a considerable number of points for a 1995 birthdate over his last two WHL seasons. His strongest tool is his skating, which is easily high end, if not better. He has a very graceful stride, and his footwork is precise in any direction. His top gear, agility, pivots, and gap control stand out in each game he plays. He is also a top-end puck mover, frequently making aware and accurate passes. He can run the point on a top power play unit, jump into the rush, make a good outlet, and flash a highlight reel play with the puck. His defensive awareness is solid, and he has killed penalties at times. Still, he faces a significant issue in his physicality. I would not describe him as soft, as he can make a quality hit at times, but he often is outmuscled for pucks. Coupling this aspect of his game with his undersized frame makes him a risk at the top level.

Ranking explanation: Morrissey and Robert Hagg presented another close call. Both are gifted offensive defensemen who skate at a top-end level, with good puck-moving ability. Morrissey has a little more skill, but Hagg is bigger, and projects to have more defensive value. The tiebreaker came down to consistency: this season, Hagg was not as strong as Morrissey in that area. He left more questions about his projection, which broke the tie between their similar talent levels.

convenient that nurse and pulock are 11 and 12 so that they directly compare them haha