Suddenly we have a real fast offense

[BINGO]

.

Even if Eli only had one great WR, that's one more than we have at this point.

Nicks is indeed a better receiver than Crabtree. However, it is not by a great margin as some of you are making it out to be. The gap between them is not steep at all. As a matter of fact trading Nicks for Crabtree would only be viewed by most NFL evaluator as a lateral move. Crabtree would be regarded as a reliable weapon playing along side Peyton Manning, whereas Nicks would then be viewed as an "underachier" playing in our offense. Reason for this is because the success that one receives out of the WR position is dependent or should I say intrinsically ties into the type of player such receive has as his QB. For example look at Reggie Wayne, both Steve Smiths, Deion Branch, Laurent Robinson, Brandon Marshall, etc. There's always seems to be an independent variable in place which is their QB.

We have no idea what we're getting with Moss, you just dismissed Manningham as being nothing special with Manning, Crabtree hasn't done anything special in the NFL, Jenkins has proven nothing, James has proven nothing. . .

Manningham is nothing special! I never put much faith in him with regard to him being a legit weapon for Alex Smith. There was legitimate reason why in the SB coach Belichick gameplan was to lure Manning to only have to go to Mario. Belichick knew that Manningham is the "weak link" in that offense. Sh8the only real reason why were were able to escape defeat from the Giants game (regular season game - our first meeting with them) was because of Manningham stone hands. Had he hauled in that long pass from Manning, we would have lost that game. Giants let him walk for a piece of a butter roll, and refused to resign him. Jenkins has proven nothing, and the same goes to Ruben Randle - but watch closely who will pose a bigger threat for their respective offense in 2012. Is it really our talent evaluators fault that have missed out on players (1st round pick Nicks vs. Crabtree)?! Or is it the coaching staff inept skills in developing our players (3rd round picks Jason Hill & Brandon williams vs. Manningham); (6th round pick or later - Ronald Johnson, Kyle Williams, Vs. Victor Cruz). Maybe it really is isn't about the independent varialbe (quarterback position) but rather coaching and a GM/scouting issue in terms evaluating skills.

Gore and Davis are our only two established, not over the hill, weapons.

I'll take them over Jake Ballard and Brandon Jacobs.

Would you trade our skill position players for Dallas'? I would in a heart beat.

I wouldn't! People are seriously underrating our skill players:
Gore > Felix Jones
Crabtree < Dez Bryant
Davis > Jason Whitten
Williams < Miles Austin
Walker > John Phillips
Ginn = Kevin Ogletree

Well, it appears to me that we got them beat 3 to 2, with one tie. And honestly that one particular tie favors us more b/c Ginn is more of an impact since he is widely considered a true special teams weapon in the league.

Gates isn't in the top 10 at his position?

He certainly is not the concensus top ten at his position. People are still holding on to his past as if he is still dominating the game today. You can make a case for it that he ranks # 10, but that's being modest on his behalf:

1.) Vernon Davis
2.) Rob Gronkowski
3.) Jimmy Williams
4.) Jason Whitten
5.) Jermichael Finley
6.) Aaron Hernendez
7.) Jermaine Gresham
8.) Brandon Pettigrew
9.) Tony Gonzalez
10.) Antonio Gates / Dallas Clark / Jared Cook / Brent Celek / Owen Daniels / Zach Miller / Greg Olsen

Gates past skewed your opinion in believing that he is still the Gates of 2005. Simply put, he's lucky that he's involved with Rivers in a TE friendly offense such as Norv's. He was never a "great" in line blocker, and with his diminishing skills as a receiver, I don't see how anyone can rank him in the top ten.

Which WR do we have that's a top 10 WR?

A great majority of NFL receivers do not have a top 10 NFL receiver to throw passes to. So tell me...which WR is a top 10 for Eli, Rivers (when Jax was injured), Newton, Vick, Sanchez, etc.

Do we have a top 20?

Provide me with your list of top 20, and I'll be better equipped to answer that question.

Top 30?

Provide me with your list of top 30, and I'll be better equipped to answer that question.

Is Gore still a top 10 RB? You could make a case for him, but if he is top 10, it's barely. I wouldn't say he's top 7 (Peterson, McCoy, Forte, MJD, Rice, Foster, Turner). He's in a class with Lynch, McFadden (due to injuries), Steven Jackson, Fred Jackson and Rashad Mendenhall.

This is BLASPHEMY!! Of course he is, and that's not even up for a debate. There has been supported evidence (emperical research) over the years that have shown that Gore faces the most 8-man front than any other back in the league. Yet he still manages to find ways to produce on a yearly basis. Between Peterson, and Gore there's no other backs in the league that could compare to the amount of attention he receives from opposing coaches (maybe is has to do with the lack of talent each player has from their respective QBs)? I don't know they stack the box and dare us to throw passes instead.

And let's not start praising our OL for having a bunch of first round picks. Our offense last season had three WRs that were top 10 picks (Edward, Ginn, Crabtree) and a TE taken in the top 10 as well with a first overall QB throwing to them. That didn't make it good.

Again, thanks for indirectly supporting my argument. Edwards had produced pretty well playing alongside Sanchez. He clearly isn't the problem. I already addressed the Crabtree situation. Ginn...IMO is probably the most unlucky receiver in the NFL. It is clearly that he isn't fit to be a # 1 receiver, but as a potent # 2 receiver, the guy has the skill set to that. What he lacks in toughness, and hands he makes up for it in route precision and pure speed. Ask Revis: .
I wonder how many other offenses in the league had 3-4 former top ten receivers on their squad? It's really ashame someone like Bradford doesn't have 3 to 4 former top ten picks at his disposal.

 

[BINGO]

The only known play makers are still VD and Gore.

Oh yeah? Is that so. Is that a rare phenomenon in the league. Look around the league and you tell me how many offenses have more "playmakers" than we do. In terms of "playmakers" we should be in the top ten.

EVERY ONE of these offensive players have question marks in one fashion or another and seems like everyone has unchecked exhuberance, blind faith, that these guys will solve our decade long offensive problem. Each year we have brought in players that we thought would be the "offensive playmakers" to kick start this team; think back to some of the so called "hot shots" we added, in previous years. Only Davis & Gore delivered (Nedney and Akers while were at it)...

Are you referring to Jason Hill; Brandon Lloyd; and Antonio Bryant. Does guys showed absolutely nothing after they left SF.

Manningham...Perhaps the best prospect of the bunch, but how will he do going from Eli Manning to Alex Smith? He won't be competing for ball with Nicks, this is a test for both Smith and Manningham

This conversation is over. I don't need to debate this with anyone who believes Manningham is a better receiver than Crabtree. This conversation is over...I will not even address the rest of content on that post!

 

[clyde_carbon]

Rep for being fiesty this morning Bingo.

 

[BINGO]

Sorry but you have lost your fucking mind. I would take Cruz over any WR we have and certainly consider his performance last season GREAT. You think it was all Eli that made him out battle 2 and sometimes 3 guys for the ball, break tackles, burn guys by five yards, and make one handed catches? You clearly need to re-watch the kid with the hater shades off. Ask the Jets, Seahawks, and Eagles DBs what they think of Cruz. Cruz was a great WR last season, PERIOD.

You were probably one of the regulars who led the legislation in having Brandon Lloyd get shipped out from our team (because of his occasional episodes of dropsies). If Crabtree leaves SF, those same fans will regret it tremendously. Crabtree is better than Cruz. Period! Opposing teams best DBs are assigned to Nicks and Crabtree, whereas Cruz gets the "nickel" corner. Eli makes him look much better than he is. The kid has some talent, but he is not better than Crabtree. I wouldn't trade Cratree for that midget at all.

 

[Ray_Dogg]

You were probably one of the regulars who led the legislation in having Brandon Lloyd get shipped out from our team (because of his occasional episodes of dropsies). If Crabtree leaves SF, those same fans will regret it tremendously. Crabtree is better than Cruz. Period! Opposing teams best DBs are assigned to Nicks and Crabtree, whereas Cruz gets the "nickel" corner. Eli makes him look much better than he is. The kid has some talent, but he is not better than Crabtree. I wouldn't trade Cratree for that midget at all.

I actually led the legislation for Lloyd's return.

You have clearly alerted the public that you are a Crabtree homer. So anything you say about him is biased so much that it should be dismissed.

You also just proved you didn't watch Cruz play. Outworking 2 guys more than once for an INT jump ball is not because of Eli. Breaking multiple tackles is not because of Eli. Making 1 handed catches is not because of Eli. Running fantastic routes that creates separation is not because of Eli. You are delusional my friend.

 

[BINGO]

Rep for being fiesty this morning Bingo.

Yeah man! I just never had time to respond. Lot's of sh8 going on at my job lately. I can't really focus on this thread as I want to (lots of typos - situations where I meant to say quarterback, I put receivers. I referred to Jimmy Graham as Jimmy Williams. lol).

But I read this a couple days ago and I needed to respond but never had the chance to.

 

[Ray_Dogg]

Oh yeah and ask the Nickle CB that tried to cover Cruz in the NFC Championship game what he thinks of him.

 

[Ray_Dogg]

It's all Eli!

 

[BINGO]

I actually led the legislation for Lloyd's return.

You have clearly alerted the public that you are a Crabtree homer. So anything you say about him is biased so much that it should be dismissed.

You also just proved you didn't watch Cruz play. Outworking 2 guys more than once for an INT jump ball is not because of Eli. Breaking multiple tackles is not because of Eli. Making 1 handed catches is not because of Eli. Running fantastic routes that creates separation is not because of Eli. You are delusional my friend.

C'mon Ray? Are you serious? You're talking to the man that wanted Raji or Orakpo that year. When we went WR, I was highly disappointed because not only did we pass up on a pressing need on defense, but we had passed up on the # 1 player I wanted in that position (Percy Harvin). How am I a homer? I just don't think the criticism that Crabtree receives is warranted. Some is true, but a lot of it is far fetched and uncalled for. And for that I am being labeled a homer. You can't be serious dude!

I live in NY Ray. It is fair to assume that I watched Cruz play more than you have. I even have his phone number (interview on hot '97 morning show). But I'm sure that # is no longer in service by now. I've hung out with Chris Canty and Kenny Phillips - my barber cuts them in Jersey. I've told them the same thing about Cruz. One thing they can say is that I know a lot about their team. Yet I didn't watch Cruz play. Yeah ok!

 

[Ray_Dogg]

[YOUTUBE]gCP83KkcQ-A[/YOUTUBE]

It's all Eli!

 

[Ray_Dogg]

C'mon Ray? Are you serious? You're talking to the man that wanted Raji or Orakpo that year. When we went WR, I was highly disappointed because not only did we pass up on a pressing need on defense, but we had passed up on the # 1 player I wanted in that position (Percy Harvin). How am I a homer? I just don't think the criticism that Crabtree receives is warranted. Some is true, but a lot of it is far fetched and uncalled for. And for that I am being labeled a homer. You can't be serious dude!

I live in NY Ray. It is fair to assume that I watched Cruz play more than you have. I even have his phone number (interview on hot '97 morning show). But I'm sure that # is no longer in service by now. I've hung out with Chris Canty and Kenny Phillips - my barber cuts them in Jersey. I've told them the same thing about Cruz. One thing they can say is that I know a lot about their team. Yet I didn't watch Cruz play. Yeah ok!

Again, you have not watched the man play. Just because you stared at the TV screen doesn't mean you weren't blinded with some kind of MAN CRUSH of the YEAR for everything Eli. I saw Cruz do more last season based on individual talent ALONE than I have seen Crabtree do outside of college ball.

 

[Ray_Dogg]

Eli is going to take it all the way!

 

[BINGO]

Oh yeah and ask the Nickle CB that tried to cover Cruz in the NFC Championship game what he thinks of him.

Eli was throwing darts out there. Nothing our DBs could have done to prevent the raping that was taking place. He made it easy for his receivers.

 

[Ray_Dogg]

Damn Eli made a nice catch on Nnamdi.

 

[BINGO]

Obviously it is you who haven't watched the Giants play (in particular Cruz) as much as us NYkers. You posting one or two plays in which Cruz bailed out Eli, doesn't say much. That's the least he could do, b/c you don't realize how many opportunities (TDs that is) or instances he failed his QB.

Victor Cruz And Those Dropped Passes - Big Blue View

 

[Ray_Dogg]

Eli was throwing darts out there. Nothing our DBs could have done to prevent the raping that was taking place. He made it easy for his receivers.

Classic. More Eli is the sole reason.
I'll take Cruz on speed, routes, and hands over Miguel Lobsterbush all day every day and it isn't even close.

 

[Ray_Dogg]

Obviously it is you who haven't watched the Giants play (in particular Cruz) as much as us NYkers. You posting one or two plays in which Cruz bailed out Eli, doesn't say much. That's the least he could do, b/c you don't realize how many opportunities (TDs that is) or instances he failed his QB.

Victor Cruz And Those Dropped Passes - Big Blue View

Show me where Crabtree has done any of those plays in his ENTIRE career?

And you just provided evidence against your opinion in that article.


Per Pro Football Focus, Cruz has been targeted 98 times by Eli Manning this season, and the 70.4 percent completion rate throwing the ball to him is 14th-best in the NFL. For comparison, Nicks has been targeted 105 times and 61 percent of those throws have been completed.

Ouch.

 

[BINGO]

Show me where Crabtree has done any of those plays in his ENTIRE career?

And you just provided evidence against your opinion in that article.


Per Pro Football Focus, Cruz has been targeted 98 times by Eli Manning this season, and the 70.4 percent completion rate throwing the ball to him is 14th-best in the NFL. For comparison, Nicks has been targeted 105 times and 61 percent of those throws have been completed.

Ouch.

No, I'm providing evidence that Eli is a superb talent. You just pasted bits of pieces of that article to support your claim and completely dismissed the rest of the disturbing fact:

Now for those drops. Cruz has 10 drops this season, and only Greg Little of Cleveland (14), Roddy White of Atlanta (12) and Brandon Marshall of Miami (12) have more among wide receivers. White has been targeted 136 times and Marshall 112. Little has 14 drops in just 96 targets.

I don't bring any of this up to belittle Cruz. He has been a savior for the Giants, who needed someone in the receiving corps to step up and complement Nicks. He is an amazing talent having an incredible, unexpected year. I am just imagining what could be coming down the road if he can haul in a few more of those near-misses.

10 drops out of 98 targets in comparions to 12 drops out of 136 targets...that's astonishing. He has failed Eli so many times last year. Thus, if he happens to bail out Eli with 2-3 spectacular catches is returning the favor for lack of better words.

 

[Ray_Dogg]

No, I'm providing evidence that Eli is a superb talent. You just pasted bits of pieces of that article to support your claim and completely dismissed the rest of the disturbing fact:

Now for those drops. Cruz has 10 drops this season, and only Greg Little of Cleveland (14), Roddy White of Atlanta (12) and Brandon Marshall of Miami (12) have more among wide receivers. White has been targeted 136 times and Marshall 112. Little has 14 drops in just 96 targets.

I don't bring any of this up to belittle Cruz. He has been a savior for the Giants, who needed someone in the receiving corps to step up and complement Nicks. He is an amazing talent having an incredible, unexpected year. I am just imagining what could be coming down the road if he can haul in a few more of those near-misses.

10 drops out of 98 targets in comparions to 12 drops out of 136 targets...that's astonishing. He has failed Eli so many times last year. Thus, if he happens to bail out Eli with 2-3 spectacular catches is returning the favor for lack of better words.

Those drops aren't even a correct number Bingo. Stats LLC has the correct numbers for Cruz and his season ending total is 7 drops out 131 targets. But if you want to stick to sbnation go right ahead. And why the fuck would anybody whine about 7 drops when you are getting 82 receptions 1,536 yards and 9 TDs? And how does that make him not great and prove Crabtree is better than him or that his numbers are all because of Eli? Please. I guess those drops cost them a Super Bowl.

 

[BINGO]

Classic. More Eli is the sole reason.
I'll take Cruz on speed, routes, and hands over Miguel Lobsterbush all day every day and it isn't even close.

Maybe this is why?
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