Suddenly we have a real fast offense

[Crimsoncrew]

yep, it'll start the same place it always does.....QB.

next, the O-line needs to gel a little more, not so much individual improvement cause its a given, but reduce communication errors.

we all know a good defense can't stop an 'hot' offense. so no doubt the ratio of TD/FG needs to tilt TD's.

I think we repeatedly saw our D stop hot offenses. I guess if you're defining a hot offense as one that is currently clicking, that is true. But that seems obvious. A good defense doesn't let a good offense get into a groove. Our D shut down the Saints for three and a half quarters, and shut down the Giants entirely. They should only get better with more experience in the system (though we can't count on being so healthy again). Clearly we need the offense to improve, but our D was good enough to get us to the super bowl last year, even with a subpar offense.

 

[Jikkle]

I'm optimistic that Alex will improve. It's basically his first time being in a legit NFL offense for two years running (I'm not going to count Jimmy Raye, and that only lasted a few games anyway). If he can become a little more aggressive and stretch the field a bit with his new outside weapons, this team can go far.

I don't know how high his ceiling is. Hopefully the work on his mechanics will pay dividends. He's got adequate arm strength, but he's got to his those long sideline throws or the additions won't matter much. Our first two picks offer a lot of scheme diversity. I really hope we take advantage of it. We shall see, but I'm going to be positive until I see a reason not to be.

This is my opinion on Alex as well.

I'm not under any delusions that Smith will become Bree, Rodgers, Brady, etc but I am expecting him to have a much better season than he did last season. I don't believe he'll have a 5 pick season again but I do think we'll see more TDs and a lot more yards from him.

My hope is that with a full offseason and hopefully getting work in with all his weapons we'll see a more aggressive Alex Smith. I just have a hard time believing that he can be so money with VD but can't be with everyone else.

 

[BINGO]

Imagine all of these guys on the field at the same time:

RB: Kendall Hunter/LaMichael James
WR: A.J. Jenkins, Randy Moss, and Kyle Williams
TE: Vernon Davis

Put Colin Kaepernick under center and we could have one of the most dynamic offenses in the league.

The beauty of it is we can go physical, too.

RB: Frank Gore/Brandon Jacobs
WR: Michael Crabtree, Mario Manningham
TE: Vernon Davis, Nate Byham

Can't wait to see this offense in action.

When Madden comes out I bet you 90% of gamers will select the niners to play with. Not just our offense, but our defense too. I hope they don't sh8t on Moss' speed in Madden 2013.

 

[BINGO]

Might as well be the only person to say it, but I think Alex Smith can make it one of the most dynamic offenses, too. We haven't seen him with these weapons, with this coaching staff, and with this system (full playbook, full off-season). I know it's a leap of faith and that I can't say based upon his past that this will happen. It's just my opinion. I think Alex is a slow bloomer who needs help. He's got help now and more confidence (2011 - Manning = net gain). I know I'm in the vast minority here, but my opinion is what it is.

There's potential with CK, as in he could, like you said, do it - I'm just not going to say or believe it'll happen until I see it in the pros. Not his fault, he can't do anything if they don't give him the chance. I'm not going to get into hype until he starts to show it and that won't happen until the coaches play him. Again, not his fault. I get annoyed by those who say he's just a backup or never will be the starter. I'll root for him and every other 49er QB, of course.

I haven't seen Sanchez, Stafford, Newton, Brady, Rivers, Eli, etc. with those type of weapons either. So....?

 

[deep9er]

Deep, I'm not sure what you mean by a good defense can't stop a 'hot' offense or how you're quantifying either "good" or "hot", but by interpretation of that statement I would have to say that good defenses stop hot offenses all the time.

In fact, some might argue we have a SB Ring to prove it. Just a thought.

oh ok, i acknowledge its hard to define these terms, and i didn't qualify it.

say on a given Sunday Bradford and his receivers are SHARP. his passes are on time and accurate, his receivers don't drop any balls. this is what i meant by 'hot' offense. as good as our defense is, it won't stop an offense clicking on all cylinders. it could be Eli, Aaron, or even Matt Moore, you can't stop a hot offense.

i meant this "on any given Sunday", not overall season.

 

[NinerSickness]

I haven't seen Sanchez, Stafford, Newton, Brady, Rivers, Eli, etc. with those type of weapons either. So....?

Rivers had DJ & Gates
Brady's had Welcher, Moss & Gronk
Newton had Steve Smith & good TEs
Eli had great WRs too.

Alex has a rookie who hasn't played yet, a washed up Moss & Manningham / Crabby + Davis. That isn't any better than the above receiving corps.

 

[deep9er]

I'm optimistic that Alex will improve. It's basically his first time being in a legit NFL offense for two years running (I'm not going to count Jimmy Raye, and that only lasted a few games anyway). If he can become a little more aggressive and stretch the field a bit with his new outside weapons, this team can go far.

I don't know how high his ceiling is. Hopefully the work on his mechanics will pay dividends. He's got adequate arm strength, but he's got to his those long sideline throws or the additions won't matter much. Our first two picks offer a lot of scheme diversity. I really hope we take advantage of it. We shall see, but I'm going to be positive until I see a reason not to be.

he'll show improvement just by having a better team around him. how much he himself improves is the question?

it won't be only stats - which we expect will increase - but more how he handles tight situations i guess?

 

[deep9er]

This is my opinion on Alex as well.

I'm not under any delusions that Smith will become Bree, Rodgers, Brady, etc but I am expecting him to have a much better season than he did last season. I don't believe he'll have a 5 pick season again but I do think we'll see more TDs and a lot more yards from him.

My hope is that with a full offseason and hopefully getting work in with all his weapons we'll see a more aggressive Alex Smith. I just have a hard time believing that he can be so money with VD but can't be with everyone else.

what would be a GUESS as to how much his stats improve? is it reasonable to think everything goes up 20-25%? yeah, this includes INT's too.

 

[deep9er]

Rivers had DJ & Gates
Brady's had Welcher, Moss & Gronk
Newton had Steve Smith & good TEs
Eli had great WRs too.

Alex has a rookie who hasn't played yet, a washed up Moss & Manningham / Crabby + Davis. That isn't any better than the above receiving corps.

yeah, think we can easily exaggerate how much weapons we've added? the reference point was low to begin with.

it might not 'bear fruit' as fast as we expect?

 

[BINGO]

Rivers had DJ & Gates
Brady's had Welcher, Moss & Gronk
Newton had Steve Smith & good TEs
Eli had great WRs too.

Alex has a rookie who hasn't played yet, a washed up Moss & Manningham / Crabby + Davis. That isn't any better than the above receiving corps.

Gronk did not play with Moss. Brady doesn't have a probowl RB and 8 1st round offensive linemen.

You shouldn't compare Panthers offense to ours. It makes you sound silly to even try to entertain it.

Eli does not have great receivers. Eli has one great receiver in Nicks, and makes his other receivers look better than they are. Their TEs / RBs / and oline cannot compare to ours.

Rivers was still productive when Djax sat out the first 6-8 games last year. Gates is a shell of himself. The man is always hurt. Gates is no longer ranked in the top 10 in the league at his position. Again, it'll be foolish to compare their oline to ours.

I'd take our receiving corps than any of those teams above. Keep sleeping on Crabtree thinking he's a bum...!

 

[NinerSickness]

Gronk did not play with Moss. Brady doesn't have a probowl RB and 8 1st round offensive linemen.

I know they didn't play together, and Brady never had a great RB except Corey Dillon. But he's had years with a VERY good supporting cast. He's also had MUCH better O-lines than the Niners have had. Maybe the Niners' OL will be great this season though. We'll see...

You shouldn't compare Panthers offense to ours. It makes you sound silly to even try to entertain it.

Newton had as good a supporting cast as Alex does now. 2 great RBs, 2 good TEs, one of the best WRs in the league (which has the single greatest impact) and their OL was comparable to the Niners' OL last year.

Eli does not have great receivers. Eli has one great receiver in Nicks, and makes his other receivers look better than they are. Their TEs / RBs / and oline cannot compare to ours.

Of course Eli makes 'em all look better, but he still has great WRs. That's silly.

Rivers was still productive when Djax sat out the first 6-8 games last year. Gates is a shell of himself. The man is always hurt. Gates is no longer ranked in the top 10 in the league at his position. Again, it'll be foolish to compare their oline to ours.

I agree with this. Rivers has been the best QB in the NFL (regular season) over the last 5 years prior to last season. But the fact remains he's had a better suporting cast in the past than Alex has now (unless Jenkins is the next Rice of course; If Jenkins becomes is the next Steve Smith even then I give the edge to Alex in all these scenarios except Brady in '07).

 

[MHSL82]

I haven't seen Sanchez, Stafford, Newton, Brady, Rivers, Eli, etc. with those type of weapons either. So....?

If I assume all these QBs haven't had the weapons that Alex has now, then yes, I would change my mind about what I think they'll do if they get those weapons. If they do not have those players or have had those players and haven't succeeded, that affects evaluation. Alex has not had it to this extent before and many say he still does not have it now (it = weapons). Football is perhaps the most interconnected major sport out there, where one person's job is so affected by the rest. Yes, we can get some that absolutely stink and those that look great regardless. I think we can agree Alex is neither of those.

So take what I say in context - we have seen what Alex can do with the worst, we have seen what Alex can do with Crabs, Williams, and Ginn. We have not seen what Alex can do with Moss, Manningham, Jenkins, and a training-camped Crabtree (who presumably will benefit with decoys around him). I'm optimistic, others are not. It all comes down to opinion here and I think we most hope that I'm right (but, of course, disagree on practicality). If I'm not, I'm sure we'll have plenty of time to see and make an evaluation on Kaep.

 

[Bemular]

I don't get all this talk about Smith having "weapons" - To me Wallace is a weapon, Fitz is a weapon, Calvin is a weapon, Cruz is a weapon, Moss was a weapon, Welker is a weapon and so on.

Doesn't the resume of a weapon have to show at least at some point in his career he actually was a weapon? And what range of weaponry are we metaphorically referring to, from a rocket launcher to a little kid throwing a rock?

Here is a list of all Smith's weapons:
Vernon

Here is the list of Smith's weapons based on actually having been a weapon:
Moss
Manningham

All the rest are just little kids throwing rocks - hoping to become rocket launchers.

 

[CalamityX11]

When Madden comes out I bet you 90% of gamers will select the niners to play with. Not just our offense, but our defense too. I hope they don't sh8t on Moss' speed in Madden 2013.

Been that guy for years and years...

now they be jacking my wagon!!!!

 

[MHSL82]

I don't get all this talk about Smith having "weapons" - To me Wallace is a weapon, Fitz is a weapon, Calvin is a weapon, Cruz is a weapon, Moss was a weapon, Welker is a weapon and so on.

Doesn't the resume of a weapon have to show at least at some point in his career he actually was a weapon? And what range of weaponry are we metaphorically referring to, from a rocket launcher to a little kid throwing a rock?

Here is a list of all Smith's weapons:
Vernon

Here is the list of Smith's weapons based on actually having been a weapon:
Moss
Manningham

All the rest are just little kids throwing rocks - hoping to become rocket launchers.

I'm just trying to avoid any more excuses!

 

[Bemular]

I'm just trying to avoid any more excuses!

When it comes to Alex, avoiding excuses is like the earth trying to avoid the sun. While I may not agree with the metaphor, I certainly agree that the top 4 or 5 of this class of WR's along with Vernon, good game planning and good health should be more than enough to put our passing offense in the top 10-12.

 

[imac_21]

oh ok, i acknowledge its hard to define these terms, and i didn't qualify it.

say on a given Sunday Bradford and his receivers are SHARP. his passes are on time and accurate, his receivers don't drop any balls. this is what i meant by 'hot' offense. as good as our defense is, it won't stop an offense clicking on all cylinders. it could be Eli, Aaron, or even Matt Moore, you can't stop a hot offense.

i meant this "on any given Sunday", not overall season.

I think the issue here is that if they are clicking on offense, the defense isn't stopping them. It seems very common sense to me.

It's like saying "if I get up in the morning, I get up in the morning."

 

[imac_21]

Gronk did not play with Moss. Brady doesn't have a probowl RB and 8 1st round offensive linemen.

You shouldn't compare Panthers offense to ours. It makes you sound silly to even try to entertain it.

Eli does not have great receivers. Eli has one great receiver in Nicks, and makes his other receivers look better than they are. Their TEs / RBs / and oline cannot compare to ours.

Rivers was still productive when Djax sat out the first 6-8 games last year. Gates is a shell of himself. The man is always hurt. Gates is no longer ranked in the top 10 in the league at his position. Again, it'll be foolish to compare their oline to ours.

I'd take our receiving corps than any of those teams above. Keep sleeping on Crabtree thinking he's a bum...!

Even if Eli only had one great WR, that's one more than we have at this point. We have no idea what we're getting with Moss, you just dismissed Manningham as being nothing special with Manning, Crabtree hasn't done anything special in the NFL, Jenkins has proven nothing, James has proven nothing. . . Gore and Davis are our only two established, not over the hill, weapons.

Would you trade our skill position players for Dallas'? I would in a heart beat.

Gates isn't in the top 10 at his position? Which WR do we have that's a top 10 WR? Do we have a top 20? Top 30? Is Gore still a top 10 RB? You could make a case for him, but if he is top 10, it's barely. I wouldn't say he's top 7 (Peterson, McCoy, Forte, MJD, Rice, Foster, Turner). He's in a class with Lynch, McFadden (due to injuries), Steven Jackson, Fred Jackson and Rashad Mendenhall.

Our offense can be very fast with what clyde outlined, but it isn't necessarily a super talented unit.

And let's not start praising our OL for having a bunch of first round picks. Our offense last season had three WRs that were top 10 picks (Edward, Ginn, Crabtree) and a TE taken in the top 10 as well with a first overall QB throwing to them. That didn't make it good.

 

[Southern9er]

I hope so. If nothing else, KILGORE sounds much more menacing than Looney or Slowey!

Yeah...got to thinking about that as we picked these guys...but hey, keeps opponents off balance.

 

[Southern9er]

Even if Eli only had one great WR, that's one more than we have at this point. We have no idea what we're getting with Moss, you just dismissed Manningham as being nothing special with Manning, Crabtree hasn't done anything special in the NFL, Jenkins has proven nothing, James has proven nothing. . . Gore and Davis are our only two established, not over the hill, weapons.

Our offense can be very fast with what clyde outlined, but it isn't necessarily a super talented unit.

And let's not start praising our OL for having a bunch of first round picks. Our offense last season had three WRs that were top 10 picks (Edward, Ginn, Crabtree) and a TE taken in the top 10 as well with a first overall QB throwing to them. That didn't make it good.

This cannot be emphasized enough...everyone is falling in love with our roster on paper without actually thinking about what they can or will bring in reality. The only known play makers are still VD and Gore.

EVERY ONE of these offensive players have question marks in one fashion or another and seems like everyone has unchecked exhuberance, blind faith, that these guys will solve our decade long offensive problem. Each year we have brought in players that we thought would be the "offensive playmakers" to kick start this team; think back to some of the so called "hot shots" we added, in previous years. Only Davis & Gore delivered (Nedney and Akers while were at it)...

Moss...we know where he's coming from, he has two pasts, which one will he bring to the 49ers? Vikings part I/Patriots or Raiders/Vikings Part II/Titans? He doesn't have Brady throwing to him.

Jacobs...big man with big criticisms and so-so performance past couple of years

Manningham...Perhaps the best prospect of the bunch, but how will he do going from Eli Manning to Alex Smith? He won't be competing for ball with Nicks, this is a test for both Smith and Manningham

Jenkins/James...rookies, could go either way.

The ONLY significant difference is that we have these players under Harbaugh and his offense. We will find out many things this season can the staff deliver with "weapons", will Alex be able to do something significant? Are these players as good as people want to believe?