So am I still the only one that thinks.....

[skinzfan]

Compare the current Redskin roster to that of the current SB champions ..Seahawks. What Redskin starts on their roster. Garçon?...DJax? I see no one else. Doesn't really matter who plays QB. They have about 10 "keepers" on the roster. Start with drafting an OL and the secondary.

Cousins reminds me of a young Rex Grossman. RG3 freezes in the pocket when the passing lanes aren't there and lacks any presence of tacklers nearby. He'll always be a big time injury risk, his sustained his current injury without being touched by a defender.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

Compare the current Redskin roster to that of the current SB champions ..Seahawks. What Redskin starts on their roster. Garçon?...DJax? I see no one else. Doesn't really matter who plays QB. They have about 10 "keepers" on the roster. Start with drafting an OL and the secondary.

Cousins reminds me of a young Rex Grossman. RG3 freezes in the pocket when the passing lanes aren't there and lacks any presence of tacklers nearby. He'll always be a big time injury risk, his sustained his current injury without being touched by a defender.

I think a lot of us agree with nearly every word here. Griff certainly is an injury risk and has a way to go as a pocket passer. But I have seen nothing in Kirk Cousins that would lead me to believe that he will be the guy to lead us to the promised land. Talk about the lack of "it", dude has been downright terrible in crunch time.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

Taking Rg3 out of it for a moment. Out of the five games Couins has played in this year, he has had 2 bad games.

Sure the team has not won a game that he has starte. BUt all things considered, he has not looked as bad as those two games would indicate. This isnt making excuses, its simply the way it is. Its also the reason Gruden isnt going to bench him, and likely wont rush RG3 back either. IN any other situation if people were not so infatuated with RG3, most of you wouldnt be ready to throw in the towel on Cousins. I was never in love with the Bob pick, so I can see them both honestly.

Fine - keep Cousins in for the remainder of the year, trade RG3 for a 5th round pick & name Cousins the starter for ALL of next season. I don't think that you want it any other way. Basically you are advocating giving Cousins tons of more chances and giving RG3 none & blaming everything that is wrong with the Redskins on RG3. NP - you win.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

Fine - keep Cousins in for the remainder of the year, trade RG3 for a 5th round pick & name Cousins the starter for ALL of next season. I don't think that you want it any other way. Basically you are advocating giving Cousins tons of more chances and giving RG3 none & blaming everything that is wrong with the Redskins on RG3. NP - you win.

Not sure that's what Shark is advocating

But again he can't understand why we are so quick to bail on Cousins when we are so "in love" with Griffin. Really not so sure why it's that hard to follow. Griffin is not Ryan Fitzpatrick. He came out as one of the best prospects in years and backed that up with a record setting rookie year. I get it, it was in a "gimmick offense". Whatever, over half the league now runs that offense. Sure he needs work but again he has shown the ability to deliver at the NFL level, something Kirk simply has not done to date consistently

So why wouldn't we prefer to see what the guy with the talent can do, especially when his backup has been a turnover machine who has failed time and time again to deliver when needed the most?

Bailing on Griffin now is like taking a college basketball freshman, a 7 foot high school All American who is a project but has shown glimpses of greatness, and kicking him off the team in favor of a 6'7" center named Seymore Giddlestein. Sometimes patience is rewarded. That goes double when you are 1-5.

 

[skinsdad62]

ok its debunking time

Rg3 has been sacked 72 times in 30 career games or wait for it 2.4 times a game not fucking 3 or 4 or 5 times a game

now 2,4 times a game if you blame every sack on him which is total BS shark TOTAL

next I AM using the o/line as an excuse for KC's poor play because it is true

watch KC in the pocket and you will see that when he misses throws open wrs and turns the ball over it is because he is rushing his technique because he doesnt trust the o/line just as Rg3 doesnt

you are upset with Rg3 so much shark you cant even look at tape and see the issues for a guy you would normally support (KC)

both qbs are young they have to be allowed to grow. and this team needs to fix the LOS on both sides of the ball

further more shark i can believe a man with your football IQ would even try to attempt to sell anyone that sacks are more damaging then turnovers

just look at the stats on who wins games the most when they win the turnover battle it had to be the most foolish statement i have ever heard you utter simply foolish and all because Rg3 didnt ride in on his white stallion opening day last year after you talked crap to cowboy fans about Rg3

what you need to do is open your eyes and LOOK at this team and become realistic about where its at

sometimes i hate these debates because its like i have to bash KC to make a point and quite frankly he is a young qb and he is learning but lets not make him out to be something he isnt either

if you want a pocket passer people, then fine , say it

and if you dont know that athletic qbs tend to hold the ball longer then you need to educate yourself

if we play Rg3 like kap and wilson then he should succeed . but if you are looking for a pocket passer the Rg3 isnt your guy

 

[Sharkinva]

Ahh yes,, its the great defender.

 

[skinsdad62]

Ahh yes,, its the great defender.

i am sorry if facts get in the way but it isnt defending Rg3 or KC by pointing out the glitches in you thesis

you made the boasts not me

the o/line is performing and both qbs react to it with their best attributes KC rushes his reads , Rg3 holds the ball and runs

 

[Sharkinva]

i am sorry if facts get in the way but it isnt defending Rg3 or KC by pointing out the glitches in you thesis

you made the boasts not me

the o/line is performing and both qbs react to it with their best attributes KC rushes his reads , Rg3 holds the ball and runs

Skinsdad... you are right, and I shouldnt be so cheeky.

But if we are going to point out things. You are right, RG3 isnt the guy if we want a pocket passer.

As far as holes in my thesis as you put it. I think its more of a difference of opinion on RG3 more than anything. Alot of people think he is something special. I admittedly DONT. I think he is just the latest mobile fragile QB with a better PR image. He has proven to not be durable thus far. And I do think we have made accommodation for him and will continue to have to do just that. Thing is, I simply dont think he is sturdy enough to play like Kaepernick, and I think Wilson simply plays smarter.

 

[skinsdad62]

Skinsdad... you are right, and I shouldnt be so cheeky.

But if we are going to point out things. You are right, RG3 isnt the guy if we want a pocket passer.

As far as holes in my thesis as you put it. I think its more of a difference of opinion on RG3 more than anything. Alot of people think he is something special. I admittedly DONT. I think he is just the latest mobile fragile QB with a better PR image. He has proven to not be durable thus far. And I do think we have made accommodation for him and will continue to have to do just that. Thing is, I simply dont think he is sturdy enough to play like Kaepernick, and I think Wilson simply plays smarter.

well i think you are dead wrong about "its all about Rg3 " with me . i make the same claims for KC and that is where you get derailed . you think its about proving what Rg3 is

i have said since his latest injury is what shark ? he put his job in jeopardy by getting hurt . you have to be able to stay on the field .

i have told you about KC , that he rushes his reads and he plays well when he is good in pre-snap

he has played 5 games this year . i wont proclaim anything on him yet because we need to see him develop some

and this is why you wont look at the DC as a failure . or that the o/line is sub par because you feel that it means its an endorsement of Rg3 which it isnt

my position is clear if you want Rg3 as the qb then you must play him a certain way and stop with the pocket passing BS . if he cant stay healthy then you need to look elsewhere but that doesnt mean the o/line isnt crap for both qbs

if you want a pocket passing guy who reads defenses , and can manipulate them then we either have to see if KC is that guy or simply draft that kind of qb

right now i feel colt mccoy is the best qb for this team as constituted because he moves better then KC and reads defenses better

now let the laughing begin

 

[Sportster 72]

TOs determine the outcome of games more than any other stat. Cousins is turning the ball over way too much.

No matter what sport you play one thing that separates really good players from lesser players is the ability to stay cool under pressure or in pressure situations. I don't think we have really seen Griffin show that he has that ability but I am pretty sure we have seen that Cousins doesn't. He makes a mistake and instead of setting it aside and moving forward and performing well he compounds by making more and more mistakes. This to me is disturbing.

I also agree with dad in that I don't think it means Cousin can't ever improve on that but it was Cousins MO coming out of college.

 

[Sharkinva]

TOs determine the outcome of games more than any other stat. Cousins is turning the ball over way too much.

No matter what sport you play one thing that separates really good players from lesser players is the ability to stay cool under pressure or in pressure situations. I don't think we have really seen Griffin show that he has that ability but I am pretty sure we have seen that Cousins doesn't. He makes a mistake and instead of setting it aside and moving forward and performing well he compounds by making more and more mistakes. This to me is disturbing.

I also agree with dad in that I don't think it means Cousin can't ever improve on that but it was Cousins MO coming out of college.

See Sportster, thats where i have to disagree some what. Yes Kirk has had two bad (very bad games) But he has also been able to put up points. And more importantly hehas been able to put up points well before the game is actually out of reach.

IN the Philly game which we lost by 3 points. He put up 3 TDs and 1 INT. Had we won that game, it would have been considered a solid outing on all counts. Ultimately he tried to win it on his arm and we lost.

In the Seattle game he put up almost 300 yards and 2 TDs no picks... again ultimately we lost, but not because of the QB play.

Going back to last year, can any one really say that RG3 had us IN games going into the half?? Generally we were playing catch up. Same thing for the Houston game ultimately came up short in the points department. And without the read option or the threat of, I seriously dont think that will change with Griffin. Right now teams dont respect him from the pocket, and I dont see that changing any time soon.

 

[skinsdad62]

See Sportster, thats where i have to disagree some what. Yes Kirk has had two bad (very bad games) But he has also been able to put up points. And more importantly hehas been able to put up points well before the game is actually out of reach.

IN the Philly game which we lost by 3 points. He put up 3 TDs and 1 INT. Had we won that game, it would have been considered a solid outing on all counts. Ultimately he tried to win it on his arm and we lost.

In the Seattle game he put up almost 300 yards and 2 TDs no picks... again ultimately we lost, but not because of the QB play.

Going back to last year, can any one really say that RG3 had us IN games going into the half?? Generally we were playing catch up. Same thing for the Houston game ultimately came up short in the points department. And without the read option or the threat of, I seriously dont think that will change with Griffin. Right now teams dont respect him from the pocket, and I dont see that changing any time soon.

then where is that kind of "fair analysis" with Rg3 ? you blamed him for many of the losses when the facts didnt back it up the chiefs game is a prime example of this . the special teams gave up or set up 3 tds but Rg3 was "solely " to blame

the truth is both qbs are young and will make mistakes and that is why at the beginning of the year i said the defense had to carry us which you dismissed and now turns out to be true

Kc cant be blamed for all the losses "solely " he is learning but the team as a hole has to step up and it simply hasnt

 

[Sharkinva]

then where is that kind of "fair analysis" with Rg3 ? you blamed him for many of the losses when the facts didnt back it up the chiefs game is a prime example of this . the special teams gave up or set up 3 tds but Rg3 was "solely " to blame

the truth is both qbs are young and will make mistakes and that is why at the beginning of the year i said the defense had to carry us which you dismissed and now turns out to be true

Kc cant be blamed for all the losses "solely " he is learning but the team as a hole has to step up and it simply hasnt

You mean the Chiefs game where we were down by 28 at the half?? That Chiefs game?? Surely you jest?? We FINALLY put up points in the last two minutes of the seconds quarter and you think he was doing well in that game??

In the words of NFL Analysts every where... Come On Mannn!!!

Again I agree, both QB's need to learn. Cousins needs to learn not to turn the ball over. RG3 needs to learn to actually score points BEFORE we are down by 21 or more points more often than not.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

Dean will always be the guy who cheered Griffin's injury and Shark will always be the guy who argued that a sack is just as bad as an INT. There's no taking those positions back, they are there forever.

 

[martinez]

then where is that kind of "fair analysis" with Rg3 ? you blamed him for many of the losses when the facts didnt back it up the chiefs game is a prime example of this . the special teams gave up or set up 3 tds but Rg3 was "solely " to blame

the truth is both qbs are young and will make mistakes and that is why at the beginning of the year i said the defense had to carry us which you dismissed and now turns out to be true

Kc cant be blamed for all the losses "solely " he is learning but the team as a hole has to step up and it simply hasnt

lol, shark doesn't give fair analysis on our qbs skinsdad, we all know that. all he does is make excuses for kirk and doesn't give rg3 a chance because hes not a pocket passer.

 

[Sharkinva]

lol, shark doesn't give fair analysis on our qbs skinsdad, we all know that. all he does is make excuses for kirk and doesn't give rg3 a chance because hes not a pocket passer.

Show me one excuse I have made for Cousins play since he became the starter. Show me where i have said oh its the lines fault he threw a pick because he hasnt had time. Or if the WRs would simply not drop passes Kirk would be doing great. I have made zero excuses for Cousins this season, and at best you could say the three loses last year i excused because the whole team had all but quit by the time he came in and started.


Just because IM not in love with our over rated version of Mike Vick does not mean i will accept poor play from Cousins.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

See Sportster, thats where i have to disagree some what. Yes Kirk has had two bad (very bad games) But he has also been able to put up points. And more importantly hehas been able to put up points well before the game is actually out of reach.

IN the Philly game which we lost by 3 points. He put up 3 TDs and 1 INT. Had we won that game, it would have been considered a solid outing on all counts. Ultimately he tried to win it on his arm and we lost.

In the Seattle game he put up almost 300 yards and 2 TDs no picks... again ultimately we lost, but not because of the QB play.

Going back to last year, can any one really say that RG3 had us IN games going into the half?? Generally we were playing catch up. Same thing for the Houston game ultimately came up short in the points department. And without the read option or the threat of, I seriously dont think that will change with Griffin. Right now teams dont respect him from the pocket, and I dont see that changing any time soon.

You are right, he did put up points "before the game was out of reach". The problem of course is when the game is in doubt Kirk he has failed miserably time and time again. So Griff gets docked for, in your eyes, putting up garbage time yards/points but Cousins does not get docked for putting up his numbers in the first half and not when the team needs him most? Sounds like, wait for it, excuse making for Kirk Cousins. Either that or a double standard. Take your pick. Either way you continue to be unfair in your comparisons.

Here are Kirk Cousins' splits:

First Half Stats:
64/98 795 yards 65.3% completion 6 TD 0 Int 107 Rating

Second Half Stats:
52/90 776 yardd 57.8% completion 4TD 8 Int 63.9 Rating

4th Quarter+/- 7 pts

4 13 30% 0 TD 2 INT 10.6 Rating

http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/splits/_/id/14880/kirk-cousins

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

And just to give the total picture here were his splits for 2013:


1st Half

56% 2 TD 1 INT 85.1 Rating

2nd Half

49% 2 TD 6 INT 42.4 Rating

 

[Sharkinva]

DGF... yep, there is a double standard.

I expect the "franchise" QB to be able to put up points when it matters, not just in garbage time. Especially after we catered the team and actually now the coaching staff to him.

I also expect the guy we got in the fourth round to have his issues or else he wouldnt have been available to us in the 4th round.

But I agree, Kirk fails us when it matters the most. Rg3 shows up when it matters the least. Thats for the graphic illustration, I could not have pointed it out better if I wanted to.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

Um... I didn't just help your position with my figures so I'm not sure what you meant by that last part. I was once again disproving your silly posts such as"he's really only had 2 bad games" with facts and stats. If you agree with me that he hasn't done anything to date to show he can be the QB of the future? Why not just admit this instead of going out of your way to create a disagreement?

We all get your position. You really need some new material. You expect more from a guy we gave up so much to get and you want it NOW

I wish I were here to see your posts in 2012. Fascinated to see how you reacted as he tore up the league.