Seahawks inconsistent offense

[Anointed One]

Interesting note, Goff was under pressure with 51.6% of his drop backs, while RW under pressure with 51.1% of his drop backs... 1 and 2 in the NFL for week 12

 

[Logicallylethal]

Were you trying to be funny? The Mariners traded Taijuan last week...

Yeah...Jean Segura

I like the trade if Segura's big year isn't a fluke and he can be our Jose Altuve...but I was a big believer in Sky Walker and I wanted him to be untouchable. I think he's going to be really special

 

[dude82]

I think you also have to wonder if much of this is just overreaction Monday stuff. None of this type talk has happened to any measurable degree for WEEKS. One bad game on the road with 3 rookies starting (including the debut for Hunt) and now this just may be a philosophy lesson for our braintrust? I really, really doubt it. I think it's much more likely we look back on this game in a month or so as an outlier performance. Similar to the Saints game.

I'm not one to overreact to games, either during or after the fact. I don't usually go on the gameday threads during the game specifically because of the overreactions that take place there. You guys know that. I have acknowledged in the past that the offensive line has been an issue, for one reason or another, for about a decade now. When they were spending money on offensive linemen, they weren't finding the right ones, which points to poor scouting and bad decision making. Now that they haven't been spending money on the offensive line for a handful of years, there seems to be a learning curve or an adjustment period every year, which points to valuing other positions significantly more and hoping for the best from the group of linemen you put out there. This just happens to be the first year that using that approach has bitten them in the ass.

With some of the hits that Wilson has taken in the past and with the sheer number of hits he's taken in five years here, we're lucky that this was the first time in his career that he's gotten hurt badly enough that there was talk of resting him on multiple occasions (even if that talk didn't come from him). I would just think that the front office wouldn't want to push their luck any more than they already have and start giving Russell the protection he deserves. He's not going to be getting any younger or faster and now that he's suffered an ankle injury and a knee injury, why take a chance on him getting hurt again because you wanted to make sure everyone else except the people protecting your franchise quarterback got paid? I'm not suggesting cutting a bunch of other guys on the roster to make room for a bunch of high priced linemen, but I think the time has come to stop paying them the least of any group of o-linemen in the league.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

Throwing money to fix the OL may not be the answer, because good OL hardly ever become FA. Would the Seahawks have a better OL if they had out bid other teams for Sweezy and Okung? Sweezy is out for the season and Okung has had his usual injuries. They spent money on Webb and Sowell which was like burning money. Not sure about which OL will be available on the free agent market next year, maybe there will be one that actually pays to sign, but probably not.
I believe they just have to rebuild the OL thru the draft, which isn't easy given their draft position and the fact that OL coming up from the college ranks are usually not prepared for pros. For this year, all they can do is coach them up. I still think that's possible, but it will be two steps forward, then one back.
If they can just get the run game working, I think that would really help the offense ( and defense) in general. I'm nervous about the next game, because the Panthers are a physical team and those types of teams are the ones that usually give the Seahawks trouble. If the Seahawks can win this one they'll be in good shape, if they lose this board will blow up.

 

[JMR]

I'm nervous about the next game, because the Panthers are a physical team and those types of teams are the ones that usually give the Seahawks trouble.

Don't get too hung up on the label -- Panthers D has fallen off quite a bit this year. And I don't know what the latest is on Keuchly, but obviously not having him puts them back even further.

 

[dude82]

Don't get too hung up on the label -- Panthers D has fallen off quite a bit this year. And I don't know what the latest is on Keuchly, but obviously not having him puts them back even further.

Getting Britt back for this one will help. Without him against Tampa the other day, the offensive line was anchorless. I forget who said it, but someone brought up the fact that the center is responsible for setting the protections, and having a rookie taking over that responsibility with two other rookies on the line and a tenuous situation at one of the other spots had to have played a big part in the play of the offensive line on Sunday. You have to have someone on the offensive line who can settle everyone else down and put them in position to succeed, and while Hunt might be that guy eventually, he isn't that guy now.

That said, however they choose to go about it, I just don't think the Seahawks can continue to pay their offensive line so little. I know that the options available to them aren't that great and they never seem to be when you need them to be, but they can't continue doing what they've been doing there. They've come too close to the worst-case scenario this year to shrug it off and do nothing.

 

[JMR]

Getting Britt back for this one will help. Without him against Tampa the other day, the offensive line was anchorless. I forget who said it, but someone brought up the fact that the center is responsible for setting the protections, and having a rookie taking over that responsibility with two other rookies on the line and a tenuous situation at one of the other spots had to have played a big part in the play of the offensive line on Sunday. You have to have someone on the offensive line who can settle everyone else down and put them in position to succeed, and while Hunt might be that guy eventually, he isn't that guy now.

The value of Britt may very well have been gauged this last game. The OL is heavily dependent on continuity and chemistry to perform well. That seems like it was probably the issue vs TB. I didn't expect Hunt to come in and not see a collective drop off, but I also thought a healthier RW and Rawls back would cover that up but I was wrong on that.

That said, however they choose to go about it, I just don't think the Seahawks can continue to pay their offensive line so little. I know that the options available to them aren't that great and they never seem to be when you need them to be, but they can't continue doing what they've been doing there. They've come too close to the worst-case scenario this year to shrug it off and do nothing.

We have some 1st-3rd round picks invested in the line and also some 1st year starters. How much money they make is not the only measure of value or only indication of how good they can be. See the 2013 secondary for the example.

The line had a crappy day on Sunday, no question. Still don't think we should make more of it than it is though. 1 game, and it wasn't even the real OL.

 

[Screamin12th]

Throwing money to fix the OL may not be the answer, because good OL hardly ever become FA. Would the Seahawks have a better OL if they had out bid other teams for Sweezy and Okung? Sweezy is out for the season and Okung has had his usual injuries. They spent money on Webb and Sowell which was like burning money. Not sure about which OL will be available on the free agent market next year, maybe there will be one that actually pays to sign, but probably not.
I believe they just have to rebuild the OL thru the draft, which isn't easy given their draft position and the fact that OL coming up from the college ranks are usually not prepared for pros. For this year, all they can do is coach them up. I still think that's possible, but it will be two steps forward, then one back.
If they can just get the run game working, I think that would really help the offense ( and defense) in general. I'm nervous about the next game, because the Panthers are a physical team and those types of teams are the ones that usually give the Seahawks trouble. If the Seahawks can win this one they'll be in good shape, if they lose this board will blow up.

Here are some 2017 FA olineman i hope the Hawks think about.
LT Terron Armstead, Saints
RT Ryan Schraeder, Atl
LT Cordy Glenn, Bills
G Kevin Zeitler, Cincy

Getting one of those LT would be awesome. Better than what we have by a mile at LT. I actually am not sure if any of these guys have signed extensions so my list could be a fail :P

Some might not like this but i think Chris Strausser would be an upgrade as the Oline Coach also :P

 

[blstoker]

Here are some 2017 FA olineman i hope the Hawks think about.
LT Terron Armstead, Saints
RT Ryan Schraeder, Atl
LT Cordy Glenn, Bills
G Kevin Zeitler, Cincy

Getting one of those LT would be awesome. Better than what we have by a mile at LT. I actually am not sure if any of these guys have signed extensions so my list could be a fail :P

Armstead is signed through 2021
Schraeder is signed through 2021
Glenn is signed through 2020
Zeitler has yet to re-sign.

 

[blstoker]

Here's a couple more names for LT.

Riley Reiff, Detroit
Matt Kalil, Minnesota

Now, I do like George Fant, and think he could be really good and that this week was an anomaly to what he will develop into - but you can't not take a better option in hopes someone pans out. It probably wouldn't hurt to bring in a good LT and move Fant to RT where there's usually less pressure.

 

[Anointed One]

Here's a couple more names for LT.

Riley Reiff, Detroit
Matt Kalil, Minnesota

Now, I do like George Fant, and think he could be really good and that this week was an anomaly to what he will develop into - but you can't not take a better option in hopes someone pans out. It probably wouldn't hurt to bring in a good LT and move Fant to RT where there's usually less pressure.

Minnesota's OL is almost as bad as ours... I don't see them willing to trade Kalil since they're in the midst of a playoff run themselves...

 

[blstoker]

Minnesota's OL is almost as bad as ours... I don't see them willing to trade Kalil since they're in the midst of a playoff run themselves...

Kalil is in the last year of his deal - and so no trade will be necessary. Now, whether they let him walk is another matter.

Honestly, I don't see Seattle making a big move on the FA market for any OLinemen. Other than Gilliam, there doesn't seem to be much concern about what happened on Sunday as an indication that the young linemen we have are going to stop progressing.

 

[Anointed One]

Kalil is in the last year of his deal - and so no trade will be necessary. Now, whether they let him walk is another matter.

Honestly, I don't see Seattle making a big move on the FA market for any OLinemen. Other than Gilliam, there doesn't seem to be much concern about what happened on Sunday as an indication that the young linemen we have are going to stop progressing.

Gotchya, I thought you meant this year... After I said that, I thought that you may have been talking about next year but I was too lazy to change my post...

With that said, you're right... I don't see the Vikings resigning him... His price tag may be a bit too high though with not many good LT's in the NFL, let alone, available via FA...

 

[dude82]

The value of Britt may very well have been gauged this last game. The OL is heavily dependent on continuity and chemistry to perform well. That seems like it was probably the issue vs TB. I didn't expect Hunt to come in and not see a collective drop off, but I also thought a healthier RW and Rawls back would cover that up but I was wrong on that.


We have some 1st-3rd round picks invested in the line and also some 1st year starters. How much money they make is not the only measure of value or only indication of how good they can be. See the 2013 secondary for the example.

The line had a crappy day on Sunday, no question. Still don't think we should make more of it than it is though. 1 game, and it wasn't even the real OL.

It's been more than just the one game, though. We've had multiple games where we failed to even score a touchdown this season and one game where we couldn't score one until the last minute. As explosive as this offense can be, it shouldn't have that many touchdown-less games. Obviously poor offensive line play isn't the only reason for those poor offensive performances, but it's been the most consistent factor. When you take into account that Wilson has now had both legs injured, we can't afford not to upgrade the offensive line. Like I said earlier, the situation has been tolerable, if not particularly ideal, in previous years because at least Wilson wasn't getting hurt as a result. We can't say that anymore. We can't afford to have Wilson be a tackling dummy anymore.

 

[chf]

We can't afford to have Wilson be a tackling dummy anymore.

Again though, they're trying to do something about the line, but it's going to be more than a one year fix. The interior looks like it's going to be solid. Fant is a POSSIBILITY at one tackle, but realistically, they need two tackles, either in FA, draft, or a combo of both.

In the back of my mind, I was putting this year in the 'down' column, 10 and 6 I think I predicted. They've looked like they SHOULD be better than that, but there's no doubt that the team has/is embracing the idea that it's Wilson's team, and giving Russ the tools he needs to be himself.

 

[dude82]

Again though, they're trying to do something about the line, but it's going to be more than a one year fix. The interior looks like it's going to be solid. Fant is a POSSIBILITY at one tackle, but realistically, they need two tackles, either in FA, draft, or a combo of both.

In the back of my mind, I was putting this year in the 'down' column, 10 and 6 I think I predicted. They've looked like they SHOULD be better than that, but there's no doubt that the team has/is embracing the idea that it's Wilson's team, and giving Russ the tools he needs to be himself.

Drafting offensive linemen is fine and should be the long-term solution, but they've gotta find at least a couple of veterans in the short-term who aren't on the verge of retirement to compete for starting jobs at at least the tackle spots. They don't have to spend a lot more to make that happen, but they can't spend the least on offensive linemen in the league anymore.

 

[chf]

but they can't spend the least on offensive linemen in the league anymore.

I agree, and from reading between the lines, 'they' do too. But they aren't going find a solution this season. I mentioned FA in my post, and I think it's pretty obvious they'll spend some money. But as Sowell and the recently departed JeMarcus Webb show, spending $'s isn't a cure-all if you don't/can't find the right guys. They kicked the tires on the ex Saints pro-bowler too, but he was done.

Good young linemen are either

prohibitively expensive
not available.

 

[Screamin12th]

6 games the offense has played ok, 5 games they have played like shit and are 1-3-1 in those 5. I only bring this up because of Pete saying this is not a trend. If this is not a trend then what the hell is it?

 

[JMR]

It's been more than just the one game, though. We've had multiple games where we failed to even score a touchdown this season and one game where we couldn't score one until the last minute. As explosive as this offense can be, it shouldn't have that many touchdown-less games. Obviously poor offensive line play isn't the only reason for those poor offensive performances, but it's been the most consistent factor. When you take into account that Wilson has now had both legs injured, we can't afford not to upgrade the offensive line. Like I said earlier, the situation has been tolerable, if not particularly ideal, in previous years because at least Wilson wasn't getting hurt as a result. We can't say that anymore. We can't afford to have Wilson be a tackling dummy anymore.

Sure, ok, more than 1 game....back when RW was hobbled and/or we didn't have Rawls/Prosise? Had a couple games like that in the SB48 year too, and RW at that time didn't even have leg injuries to deal with. This past game was the only one of its kind for WEEKS, and it came with the best lineman (and maybe most important to this line) out. We've drafted guys recently. They need time to develop before we hit the panic button. Let's see if this line does or doesn't bounce back this week with Britt back in there and re-assess when the emotion of the TB game finally wears off.

 

[blstoker]

Minnesota's OL is almost as bad as ours... I don't see them willing to trade Kalil since they're in the midst of a playoff run themselves...

Forgot to mention, Kalil has been out most of the season - so one reason the line has been so bad in Minny is that he hasn't been playing.