Ryan Kesler for Brandon Sutter trade finally happened

[Bloody Brian Burke]

Scott Wheeler @scottcwheeler
Luongo, Schneider, Kesler, Bieksa, Lack = Markstrom, Horvat, Sbisa, Sutter, Dorsett, McCann, 3rd, 3rd, 7th, retained salary on Luongo.

Well, when they put it that way...

 

[Bloody Brian Burke]

I liked the Eric Fehr signing btw, I'm just strictly talking about the trade itself - and as mentioned in another post, yes, certain players who might be less talented might fit better in a system like the Penguins but I feel like over the long run, trading more talented players for lesser players just because they fit your system will end up hurting them - I feel like a great coach adjusts to any type of player and gets that player to play any type of game - that's where the Penguins need a top level coach that can do things like that, not just be stuck with one system and have to trade more talented players just so you can get the right fits for the system - I don't think Mike Johnston was out of place in the series against the Rangers but there were moments during the season where I thought "He might get eaten alive by better coaches in bigger games" because of some of his habits

The Penguins still have to draft way better though so that they don't get in put in situations like this where they have to trade players because they can't pay them later on

Pens are doing better in the draft dept. in the past few years. Pouliot, Maatta, Bennett, Harrington, Kapanen, Despres...all either on the roster or moved for roster pieces.

 

[evolver115]

I liked the Eric Fehr signing btw, I'm just strictly talking about the trade itself - and as mentioned in another post, yes, certain players who might be less talented might fit better in a system like the Penguins but I feel like over the long run, trading more talented players for lesser players just because they fit your system will end up hurting them - I feel like a great coach adjusts to any type of player and gets that player to play any type of game - that's where the Penguins need a top level coach that can do things like that, not just be stuck with one system and have to trade more talented players just so you can get the right fits for the system - I don't think Mike Johnston was out of place in the series against the Rangers but there were moments during the season where I thought "He might get eaten alive by better coaches in bigger games" because of some of his habits

The Penguins still have to draft way better though so that they don't get in put in situations like this where they have to trade players because they can't pay them later on

Well, if we're talking strictly about the trade, IMO, JR got the better of Benning. Personally, I could have seen a swap of Sutter for Bonino straight up with no add-ons. Yes, Sutter is the better of the two, but he's overpriced for what he is, and that is a 3rd line center. Rutherford was desperate to clear salary cap space, and he did it. But to also get a 2nd Rd. pick for a 3rd, and get a defensive prospect in return that has polish for a right-stick, puck-moving d-man in Clendening?

JR could've done worse. Like, way worse.

And as far as Johnston goes ... he's way more adaptable than the fella he replaced. There's really no other way to slice that pie. Bylsma is as stubborn as a mule, and his in-game management was pathetic. I didn't see the same from Johnston, last season. He held his own against AV, even with the deck stacked against him with the ravaged blue-line.

 

[Cobiemonster]

NICE HAIR THOUGH!!!!

The third stat is interesting because I read one comment earlier about Bonino producing playing fourth line minutes and not to say I disagree that his linemates are worse without him but I think it's a picky stat - if Bonino plays fourth line minutes then maybe he's playing more with fourth liners? If that's the case then of course the fourth liners would be worse without him - with Brandon Sutter, his linemates are probably better without him because they either get moved up to the first or second line or he doesn't have a chance to move up to the top lines

As for the 4th and 5th stats, Brandon Sutter does play with better players on the PP than Bonino for the most part, which explains the points per 60, and the 5th stat can be skewed too because more shots doesn't necessarily mean more goals - if Brandon Sutter plays with Sid and Malkin or Hornqvist or any combination of sorts, maybe they're that good that they don't need 4-5 shots to score, maybe it only takes them 1-3 shots to score

 

[Cobiemonster]

Pens are doing better in the draft dept. in the past few years. Pouliot, Maatta, Bennett, Harrington, Kapanen, Despres...all either on the roster or moved for roster pieces.

Those are all relatively high draft picks and usually most teams can hit on a first round pick and get at the very least, an NHL calibre player

But there are two problems with their drafting:

1) They really haven't drafted a bona-fide offensive forward - Beau Bennett is streaky and injury prone and while I like Kasperi Kapanen a lot, who knows what type of player he is?

2) Their drafting later in rounds hasn't been that great and I think that's where the real problem lies - you need 3rd-4th-5th-6th-7th round picks to be able to produce for you - that's why Chicago, Tampa and a few others are as good as they are, they have so many homegrown players from those rounds and that's how they're able to win in big games - Pittsburgh has relied too often on having to make trades for 3rd and 4th line types instead of drafting and developing their own bottom six players

 

[jstewismybastardson]

Well, if we're talking strictly about the trade, IMO, JR got the better of Benning. Personally, I could have seen a swap of Sutter for Bonino straight up with no add-ons. Yes, Sutter is the better of the two, but he's overpriced for what he is, and that is a 3rd line center. Rutherford was desperate to clear salary cap space, and he did it. But to also get a 2nd Rd. pick for a 3rd, and get a defensive prospect in return that has polish for a right-stick, puck-moving d-man in Clendening?

JR could've done worse. Like, way worse.

just on Clendening, i dont know the Pens depth chart on D ... he's on the roster now because he's waiver eligible ... is he gonna be in the 5-6 tandem?

 

[evolver115]

just on Clendening, i dont know the Pens depth chart on D ... he's on the roster now because he's waiver eligible ... is he gonna be in the 5-6 tandem?

I'm hopeful that Rutherford is going to find a way to unload Scuderi. If he can do that, then there is a small chance for Clendening to make the cut as a 6 or 7. Honestly though? I think he winds up in the AHL with the Baby Pens. There is now a shortage of defensemen on the farm, as Dumoulin, Harrington and Pouliot will all be in the NHL, next season.

 

[jstewismybastardson]

I'm hopeful that Rutherford is going to find a way to unload Scuderi. If he can do that, then there is a small chance for Clendening to make the cut as a 6 or 7. Honestly though? I think he winds up in the AHL with the Baby Pens. There is now a shortage of defensemen on the farm, as Dumoulin, Harrington and Pouliot will all be in the NHL, next season.

He'd have to clear waivers to go down though ... this is why the hawks traded him to the canucks in the first place last season ... because they knew they probably wouldnt get him through and someone would claim him

 

[Bloody Brian Burke]

Those are all relatively high draft picks and usually most teams can hit on a first round pick and get at the very least, an NHL calibre player

But there are two problems with their drafting:

1) They really haven't drafted a bona-fide offensive forward - Beau Bennett is streaky and injury prone and while I like Kasperi Kapanen a lot, who knows what type of player he is?

2) Their drafting later in rounds hasn't been that great and I think that's where the real problem lies - you need 3rd-4th-5th-6th-7th round picks to be able to produce for you - that's why Chicago, Tampa and a few others are as good as they are, they have so many homegrown players from those rounds and that's how they're able to win in big games - Pittsburgh has relied too often on having to make trades for 3rd and 4th line types instead of drafting and developing their own bottom six players

Chicago really only has Kruger and Shaw that were taken after the 2nd round that have been good NHL'ers. Even for TB, it's pretty much only Gudas and Paquette. The problem is those guys are usually not too difficult to come across, and Shero did a poor job of finding exactly where to look. JR's doing a much better job of it.

 

[evolver115]

He'd have to clear waivers to go down though ... this is why the hawks traded him to the canucks in the first place last season ... because they knew they probably wouldnt get him through and someone would claim him

The Pens might have to keep him, then. Olli Maatta might be the reason why Clendening makes it out of camp, too. Maatta had a second surgery to his shoulder, and if the Pens medical staff is being smart about it, they should bring him along as slowly as humanly possible. So in that instance, I could maybe see him stick at the NHL level. Also ... Scuderi ...

 

[tducey]

Good move here for Pittsburgh and they got Fehr as well, they're having a decent offseason.

 

[pixburgher66]

Those are all relatively high draft picks and usually most teams can hit on a first round pick and get at the very least, an NHL calibre player

But there are two problems with their drafting:

1) They really haven't drafted a bona-fide offensive forward - Beau Bennett is streaky and injury prone and while I like Kasperi Kapanen a lot, who knows what type of player he is?

2) Their drafting later in rounds hasn't been that great and I think that's where the real problem lies - you need 3rd-4th-5th-6th-7th round picks to be able to produce for you - that's why Chicago, Tampa and a few others are as good as they are, they have so many homegrown players from those rounds and that's how they're able to win in big games - Pittsburgh has relied too often on having to make trades for 3rd and 4th line types instead of drafting and developing their own bottom six players

Yeah...but Kapanen became Kessel. You have assets like that for two reasons: to develop them, or to flip for already developed assets. What GMJR is doing now is fixing some of the exact stuff you're referring to. Cheaper, controlled bottom six. There's more than one way to win it all, and they even improved upon a draft pick with this move. Having two 2nds may even get them back into the first. I get a bit confused when I hear this drafting argument (it's valid for forwards) and in another breath I hear "Sid and Genos prime window is closing". How do you take advantage of their prime? Selling some of tomorrow's potential for today's assurance. Not saying you're alluding to that, merely that it happens a lot when it comes to this team.

 

[pixburgher66]

The Pens might have to keep him, then. Olli Maatta might be the reason why Clendening makes it out of camp, too. Maatta had a second surgery to his shoulder, and if the Pens medical staff is being smart about it, they should bring him along as slowly as humanly possible. So in that instance, I could maybe see him stick at the NHL level. Also ... Scuderi ...

I'll get a GMJR tattoo if he can move Scuds too.

 

[Bloody Brian Burke]

As for highly-offensive forwards, I know Shero did a rank ass job of drafting and holding onto picks in general, but if we go back to 2009 and look at first round picks they did make it's not like there were amazing players left over. In 2009 maybe 2 players worth a hot damn were taken after Despres; in 2010 about the same (but Joe Morrow might've been the worst pick of the round save Tyler Biggs). The 2011 draft was awful, 2012 they went defence hunting and did pretty well with Pouliot and Maatta.

 

[Cobiemonster]

Chicago really only has Kruger and Shaw that were taken after the 2nd round that have been good NHL'ers. Even for TB, it's pretty much only Gudas and Paquette. The problem is those guys are usually not too difficult to come across, and Shero did a poor job of finding exactly where to look. JR's doing a much better job of it.

The drafting was what got Ray Shero fired - he made some damn good trades(a few trades that weren't great but usually if you make that many trades like he did, you're going to lose a few) but his drafting was so shitty that he had to keep going to the well so many times to make up for those busts in the draft and ownership saw that and knew that wasn't the way to go

Not to say that JR isn't finding better depth players now but I think a few times now, he's traded more talented players to accumulate more depth and I think while the depth can be nice if you use it right, I would take the more talented player more often than not and work with that player to get him to play the way my team needs - the salary cap does force teams to make trades but it shouldn't force teams to still make shitty deals(this wasn't a shitty deal but I didn't particularly like it as much as Penguins fans did) - getting Eric Fehr did even it out so they got that part of it right

 

[DragonfromTO]

Those are all relatively high draft picks and usually most teams can hit on a first round pick and get at the very least, an NHL calibre player

But there are two problems with their drafting:

1) They really haven't drafted a bona-fide offensive forward - Beau Bennett is streaky and injury prone and while I like Kasperi Kapanen a lot, who knows what type of player he is?

2) Their drafting later in rounds hasn't been that great and I think that's where the real problem lies - you need 3rd-4th-5th-6th-7th round picks to be able to produce for you - that's why Chicago, Tampa and a few others are as good as they are, they have so many homegrown players from those rounds and that's how they're able to win in big games - Pittsburgh has relied too often on having to make trades for 3rd and 4th line types instead of drafting and developing their own bottom six players

The kind that you can use to acquire a point per game player apparently?

 

[pixburgher66]

Man, how desperate are the Pens financially?! Need that new owner ASAP.

 

[Darkstone42]

I liked the Eric Fehr signing btw, I'm just strictly talking about the trade itself - and as mentioned in another post, yes, certain players who might be less talented might fit better in a system like the Penguins but I feel like over the long run, trading more talented players for lesser players just because they fit your system will end up hurting them - I feel like a great coach adjusts to any type of player and gets that player to play any type of game - that's where the Penguins need a top level coach that can do things like that, not just be stuck with one system and have to trade more talented players just so you can get the right fits for the system - I don't think Mike Johnston was out of place in the series against the Rangers but there were moments during the season where I thought "He might get eaten alive by better coaches in bigger games" because of some of his habits

The Penguins still have to draft way better though so that they don't get in put in situations like this where they have to trade players because they can't pay them later on

If only one player outlies your system, it's a lot easier to replace that guy (if he's not a superstar) than to adjust your system to reconcile that player.

But really, Bonino is not some huge downgrade from Sutter, and we can't treat this deal in a Sutter for Bonino vacuum. It's not. It's a $3.3 million Sutter on an expiring contract for a $1.9 million Bonino under control for an extra year (cost controlled years of team control carry value, after all, as does cap space), an upgrade in draft position, and a defense prospect. But we also have to consider, when assessing this deal from the Penguins' perspective, what is done with those other assets. In this case, they've already used the money to sign Fehr.

So for the Penguins, they have effectively exchanged Sutter for Bonino and Fehr (a roster upgrade), higher draft position, and a defense prospect. That's a good deal.

 

[dash]

Joe Morrow might've been the worst pick of the round save Tyler Biggs).

Caman BBB, I've heard some good things about Tyler Biggs, he's getting ready to bust out.

 

[dash]

Man, how desperate are the Pens financially?! Need that new owner ASAP.

Is that Sidney Crosby or George Hamilton?



/All the youngins go to google to perform a George Hamilton search