RR the break down , a tragic lesson of overhype

[duke1861]

Exactly i was onboard with the Young pick at the time. He was the best defensive player in the draft and RR is a defensive coach. So no one should have been shocked at the pick. But if Haskins didnt exist, I think RR would of went Tua. If synder instructed RR to play Haskins, then he was forced to draft Young at #2.

I wasn't shoked but thought it was a bad pick and said so at the time.
You don't take 4 straight DLinemen in the 1st round.
We were going to lose Trent but Rivera wanted to add strength to strength when we had more glaring needs. Terrible idea.

Snyder was not really interfering at that time from what I understand.

 

[deanpet21]

I wasn't shoked but thought it was a bad pick and said so at the time.
You don't take 4 straight DLinemen in the 1st round.
We were going to lose Trent but Rivera wanted to add strength to strength when we had more glaring needs. Terrible idea.

Snyder was not really interfering at that time from what I understand.

Synder made the pick of Haskins. I think Synder wanted Haskins to start that season when RR took over. RR did it and it didn't work out. Then RR went to Synder and explained it to him, and RR got the approval to bench him like dgfan said. After that I think Synder stopped interfering.

 

[deanpet21]

i will bash the pick because the FO KNEW he didnt want to play in DC . i didnt have access to that at the time but we passed on 2 qbs and picked a jadavion clowney clone . the pick was a bust

the FO admitted Young didnt want to be drafted by us?

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

Yeah I had not heard that Chase Young did not want to play in his hometown in front of his friends and family. He soured on DC after the team soured on him. I got so sick of the cameras on Chase Young every game when he did nothing. Whenever there was a big offensive play there was Chase Young on the sidelines to greet the player. Like the John 3:16 sign guy he was always visible, just rarely for his actual play.

It was the right pick even if they didn't have Haskins. If you have the chance to grab a dominant player you pull the trigger. There were too many questions about Tua's health which is why he did go 3rd or 4th. Nobody had Herbert in the top 2, like Tua if they did he too would have been taken sooner. Bringing up those names is revisionist history, nothing more.

 

[deanpet21]

Yeah I had not heard that Chase Young did not want to play in his hometown in front of his friends and family. He soured on DC after the team soured on him. I got so sick of the cameras on Chase Young every game when he did nothing. Whenever there was a big offensive play there was Chase Young on the sidelines to greet the player. Like the John 3:16 sign guy he was always visible, just rarely for his actual play.

It was the right pick even if they didn't have Haskins. If you have the chance to grab a dominant player you pull the trigger. There were too many questions about Tua's health which is why he did go 3rd or 4th. Nobody had Herbert in the top 2, like Tua if they did he too would have been taken sooner. Bringing up those names is revisionist history, nothing more.

i agree, i just think if Haskins wasnt here we had nothing at QB and RR would have taken Tua. Rr knew that he had to start Haskins in 2020 b/c of Synder.

 

[duke1861]

i agree, i just think if Haskins wasnt here we had nothing at QB and RR would have taken Tua. Rr knew that he had to start Haskins in 2020 b/c of Synder.

I am not sure he would have because Rivera never really valued the qb role.

He has only had 1 qb for the most part in his 13 years as a coach...cam Newton.
Yes, Rivera was not in charge of the roster in Carolina, but his philosophy on offense is that of game management and to have an elite defense.

How do we know this?
His repeated neglect of the OLine
Asking Scott Turner to be his oc after he had only called plays for 4 games in his entire career. Turner had no clue what he was doing and got the job because of nepotism. Kevin O'Connell was clearly the better choice.

Rivera views the offense as secondary to the defense and showed that yet again with his 2023 draft strategy. He took back to back defensive backs when his OLine was in shambles and he was starting a rookie.

You are giving Rivera too much credit here if you think he would have taken Tua. Rivera has demonstrated that his 1st objective was to build and sustain an elite defense.

 

[duke1861]

Synder made the pick of Haskins. I think Synder wanted Haskins to start that season when RR took over. RR did it and it didn't work out. Then RR went to Synder and explained it to him, and RR got the approval to bench him like dgfan said. After that I think Synder stopped interfering.

I don't think that happened and I think Rivera had the keys from day 1. I don't think snyder had time to interfere because he was covering up his own personal mess.

 

[skinsdad62]

the FO admitted Young didnt want to be drafted by us?

yes

 

[skinsdad62]

Yeah I had not heard that Chase Young did not want to play in his hometown in front of his friends and family. He soured on DC after the team soured on him. I got so sick of the cameras on Chase Young every game when he did nothing. Whenever there was a big offensive play there was Chase Young on the sidelines to greet the player. Like the John 3:16 sign guy he was always visible, just rarely for his actual play.

It was the right pick even if they didn't have Haskins. If you have the chance to grab a dominant player you pull the trigger. There were too many questions about Tua's health which is why he did go 3rd or 4th. Nobody had Herbert in the top 2, like Tua if they did he too would have been taken sooner. Bringing up those names is revisionist history, nothing more.

i dont care who had anyone where as far as scouts go . they are paid to get it right . the pundits and fan can be wrong all night long but not scouts and decision makers

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

i dont care who had anyone where as far as scouts go . they are paid to get it right . the pundits and fan can be wrong all night long but not scouts and decision makers

Could you please list the teams that got it right with every first round pick year after year?

Thanks

 

[skinsdad62]

Could you please list the teams that got it right with every first round pick year after year?

Thanks

i dont have to , i can expect that at number 2 overall you are getting a HOF player and if you miss on it and you are a subject matter expert then you are open to criticism

 

[deanpet21]

I don't think that happened and I think Rivera had the keys from day 1. I don't think snyder had time to interfere because he was covering up his own personal mess.

RR went to Synder to discuss the benching of Haskins. If he had the keys he wouldn't have had to do that.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

i agree, i just think if Haskins wasnt here we had nothing at QB and RR would have taken Tua. Rr knew that he had to start Haskins in 2020 b/c of Synder.

It would have been interesting. At the time that would have been like passing on the next Derrick Thomas for a QB who was a real injury risk. I mean you are talking Sam Bowie over Michael Jordan type of scenario if it blew up on them. I'm not sure Riverboat Ron was that big of a gambler.

 

[deanpet21]

I am not sure he would have because Rivera never really valued the qb role.

He has only had 1 qb for the most part in his 13 years as a coach...cam Newton.
Yes, Rivera was not in charge of the roster in Carolina, but his philosophy on offense is that of game management and to have an elite defense.

How do we know this?
His repeated neglect of the OLine
Asking Scott Turner to be his oc after he had only called plays for 4 games in his entire career. Turner had no clue what he was doing and got the job because of nepotism. Kevin O'Connell was clearly the better choice.

Rivera views the offense as secondary to the defense and showed that yet again with his 2023 draft strategy. He took back to back defensive backs when his OLine was in shambles and he was starting a rookie.

You are giving Rivera too much credit here if you think he would have taken Tua. Rivera has demonstrated that his 1st objective was to build and sustain an elite defense.

If Haskins didnt exist and still went Young without any QB to speak of that would have been crazy. IMO Haskins a Synder pick made a difference.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

i dont have to , i can expect that at number 2 overall you are getting a HOF player and if you miss on it and you are a subject matter expert then you are open to criticism

Well since it didn't pan out your criticism is justified. But it's easy to do after the fact. But to make the claim that scouts and GMs should never be wrong, when it happens in every single draft, is utter nonsense.

 

[skinsdad62]

Well since it didn't pan out your criticism is justified. But it's easy to do after the fact. But to make the claim that scouts should never be wrong, when it happens in every single draft, is utter nonsense.

didnt say that i said they are paid to be right

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

didnt say that i said they are paid to be right

And a kicker is paid to make kicks. That does not mean they don't miss. Scouts and GMs miss all the time, as we have seen it's very difficult to project how they will do in the league. I suggest you come to terms with this reality.

 

[skinsdad62]

And a kicker is paid to make kicks. That does not mean they don't miss. Scouts and GMs miss all the time, as we have seen it's very difficult to project how they will do in the league. II suggest you come to terms with this reality.

and if the kicker misses kicks he is also open to criticism just like a scout who blows the #2 overall is subject to criticism . thats why we have talk shows and messages boards

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

and if the kicker misses kicks he is also open to criticism just like a scout who blows the #2 overall is subject to criticism . thats why we have talk shows and messages boards

Again the criticism is warranted after the fact. But it's also a fact that nearly every team had Chase Young near the top of their draft board. And Tua was not mostly due to injury concerns.

I'm not sure what your point is. Now if you can show posts where you were dead set against the pick of Young and were promoting Tua or Herbert well then you would have a valid argument. But to claim years later that they should have done things differently and they should never be wrong, which was your claim, well that's just more nonsense.

 

[skinsdad62]

Again the criticism is warranted after the fact. But it's also a fact that nearly every team had Chase Young near the top of their draft board. And Tua was not mostly due to injury concerns.

I'm not sure what your point is. Now if you can show posts where you were dead set against the pick of Young and were promoting Tua or Herbert well then you would have a valid argument. But to claim years later that they should have done things differently and they should never be wrong, which was your claim, well that's just more nonsense.

criticism is warranted at any time when i deem it so for myself and myself only the fact is they picked a guy who told them he didnt want to play here and that he wanted to make his own way . this has been posted here and if they drafted him anyway then they are subject to criticism

i started souring on clowney right before he got hurt because he stunk .