RG3 wasnt ready

[SoCalWizFan]

elocomotive, the offense couldnt get first downs in the first half which put us in a deep hole on defense. Yes they gave up points b/c they were always on the field and got gased. In the 2nd half the offense started to get first downs and the defense only gave up one TD. My point being is that if the offense was just avg. in the first half we would of won the game.

It was a very unique situation for a number of reasons. Just heard the Sirius radio analysis & they made some real good pts. One of the main ones was that the Eagles D keyed on Morris since they guessed (correctly) that RG3 would not run much in his 1st game back (which will change at least somewhat in future games). The guys on Sirius also stated - correctly - that a pitch play like that should never be called when your back is to the endzone. That one almost totally falls on Kyle Shanahan. However - on the positive side - they maintained that it was a huge plus that RG3 threw to 11 different receivers.

That 1st half for the offense appears to be the exception & not the rule - only time will tell. You can't change it so why worry about it? They lost - move on. Don't expect that either the offense or the defense will play the same in future games (for better or worse). There are lots of factors - different opponents, RG3 having game-time under his belt, added experience for the young secondary, returning players, etc - that will result in quite different results than what occurred on Mon.

 

[Sleepy T]

I may be in the minority here, but I still would have liked for Griffin to play a little bit in the last 1 (or even 2) pre season games. IMHO (and I am certainly not Andrews) and as a recipient of 2 ACL surgeries, the difference from your knee in a matter of 1-2 weeks iseems very minimal. Would him playing in a PS game or two for a handful of series made a difference in the 1st half offensive play on Monday night??? Not sure. He did look awfully rusty.

But he has got that game behind him..time to move forward.

 

[j_y19]

It sure would have been beneficial. Actually, a few weeks at this stage of healing is critical. Its the final knitting of the ligaments to the bone and an extra few weeks of muscle strengthening, which is also crucial. It really comes down to the DR. If shanny would have played him and he got re-injured, his head would have been on a stake. We just need to give him time to get his game back. We all saw how good he is. He will be back to that stage again, but he has got to work through it on the field.

 

[Sportster 72]

For Griffin to be effective he needs to run some read option. He doesn't have to run a lot but the threat needs to be there. Right now he is not a good drop back QB, the line is not built to be a drop back line. Alfred Morris was good last year but the threat of Griffin keeping the ball made him better. Phillie did guess correctly that Griffin wouldn't run the option.

The number one problem for the Redskins was turnovers. You can't turn the ball over and win. Ask the Giants, they did the same thing. Too many penalties and lousy field position didn't help.

I think the D had a bad game except for a couple of players. They cleaned it up a lot in the 2nd half. It will be interesting to see if Green Bay goes after Rambo.

 

[j_y19]

For Griffin to be effective he needs to run some read option. He doesn't have to run a lot but the threat needs to be there. Right now he is not a good drop back QB, the line is not built to be a drop back line. Alfred Morris was good last year but the threat of Griffin keeping the ball made him better. Phillie did guess correctly that Griffin wouldn't run the option.

The number one problem for the Redskins was turnovers. You can't turn the ball over and win. Ask the Giants, they did the same thing. Too many penalties and lousy field position didn't help.

I think the D had a bad game except for a couple of players. They cleaned it up a lot in the 2nd half. It will be interesting to see if Green Bay goes after Rambo.

You can bet Rogers is licking his chops to get a shot at our rookies. Rambo is just not ready yet. Unfortunately, we don't have any other options so we will have to live with a rookie who will make rookie mistakes. What we need to be wary of is if he gets mentally gun shy. It happens to young guys that continually make mistakes.

 

[Sharkinva]

You can bet Rogers is licking his chops to get a shot at our rookies. Rambo is just not ready yet. Unfortunately, we don't have any other options so we will have to live with a rookie who will make rookie mistakes. What we need to be wary of is if he gets mentally gun shy. It happens to young guys that continually make mistakes.

Agree rogers is likely licking his chops to get at our secondary. But something no one is mentioning (at least out loud) is that Rak and Kerrigan have got to be looking forward to this one. Rogers LT is going into his second start. Haslett is going to cut loose the dawgz early and often this week I would think. Im actually looking forward to this game alot more than I was when the schedule first came out. I think its going to be a shoot out. Our defense is going to get shredded most likely, but then again I think the Packers are going to get just as shredded. Team that makes the least mistakes wins as cliche as that sounds.

 

[JDM]

For Griffin to be effective he needs to run some read option. He doesn't have to run a lot but the threat needs to be there. Right now he is not a good drop back QB, the line is not built to be a drop back line. Alfred Morris was good last year but the threat of Griffin keeping the ball made him better. Phillie did guess correctly that Griffin wouldn't run the option.

The number one problem for the Redskins was turnovers. You can't turn the ball over and win. Ask the Giants, they did the same thing. Too many penalties and lousy field position didn't help.

I think the D had a bad game except for a couple of players. They cleaned it up a lot in the 2nd half. It will be interesting to see if Green Bay goes after Rambo.

He is a very good drop back QB. If it weren't for the fact that I like guys to show it for more than a year or two to put them on that level, he would be either right above or right below drew Brees as either the fourth or fifth best passer right now. He can make every throw.

 

[j_y19]

He is a very good drop back QB. If it weren't for the fact that I like guys to show it for more than a year or two to put them on that level, he would be either right above or right below drew Brees as either the fourth or fifth best passer right now. He can make every throw.

JDM, you are probably right, he is a good drop back QB. Unfortunately we aren't a good drop back team. Our OL is not very good at pocket protection, the excel on zone blocking and moving the pocket. So if we want to keep RG3 upright, we need to keep the defenses guessing. That means we have to move RG3 around. Rollouts, read options, bootlegs, plat actions, and drop backs. That is when we operate the best.

 

[JDM]

Rollouts are acceptable, as are bootlegs and play action. Read option is a bad decision as is any other designed run to a QB as valuable as griffin. IMO he is the most valuable player on any NFL roster (Brady, Rodgers, and manning are all better right now but griffin has his entire career in front of him and is pretty freaking close.)

 

[JDM]

Also, while you do have a legitimate point about the strengths and weaknesses of your team, but that doesn't mean longer term you shouldn't try to move to a more prototypical offense. If you protect him, RG3 will be scarier than anyone else in the pocket within 2-3 years.

 

[Sharkinva]

Also, while you do have a legitimate point about the strengths and weaknesses of your team, but that doesn't mean longer term you shouldn't try to move to a more prototypical offense. If you protect him, RG3 will be scarier than anyone else in the pocket within 2-3 years.

Problem there is, it means transitioning our O-line to a more traditional line as well. Which will take alot more than 2-3 years. EVEN if we dedicated every top draft pick to the line over the next three years, odds are slim we can simply make the switch. I think you are going to see more teams moving towards the mobile QBs that can run a zone read offense.

 

[JDM]

When some of these promising young QBs get hurt running it it will tail off. There is a reason teams have shied away from running with the QB for so long.

It's not because this is a novel idea; it's because they pay the guy too much to get him hurt.

 

[Sharkinva]

When some of these promising young QBs get hurt running it it will tail off. There is a reason teams have shied away from running with the QB for so long.

It's not because this is a novel idea; it's because they pay the guy too much to get him hurt.

Aside from Vick, more pocket passers have spent more time layed up than mobile QBs. Let RG3 actually learn how to protect himself on those runs by sliding or getting out of bounds, and he becomes one of the most dangerous players in the league at the QB position.

 

[JDM]

He could run a 10 second 40 and be one of the most dangerous QBs in the NFL.

 

[Sharkinva]

He could run a 10 second 40 and be one of the most dangerous QBs in the NFL.

Problem is, defensive ends and Linebackers are getting to fast and too good. The days of the drop back, look around and just throw it QB are numbered. Add in the amount of money they will be paying QBs and their cost against the cap and most teams wont be able to afford a premier O-line to protect the pocket statues of the league.

 

[j_y19]

When some of these promising young QBs get hurt running it it will tail off. There is a reason teams have shied away from running with the QB for so long.

It's not because this is a novel idea; it's because they pay the guy too much to get him hurt.

JDM, here is the fallacy in your argument. You seem to believe that only mobile QBs get hurt. ALL QBs GET HURT. Its the nature of the position. You have been on this board many times espousing this notion that mobile QBs get hurt more frequently than pocket QBs, but when pressed for facts, you cant bring them. In fact, there is no proven correlation between being mobile and greater injury frequency. Your argument is that if they run they are more susceptible to taking a big hit. again, its a fallacy. Because if a stationary QB stays in the pocket, they are very susceptible to a injurious hit from the blind side. I would much rather have an RG3 out in space on a designed run with blockers than have him sitting in a collapsing pocket with his blind side unprotected.

Now, lets talk about when RG3 got injured. Every time he took an injurious hit last year, it was on a scramble from a collapsing pocket. SO he left and was ad-libbing without any protection from his blockers. He also, every time, had the opportunity to slide, get out of bounds, or throw the ball away and chose to try and make a play. SO every injurious hit he took could have been avoided through smarter play. Not once was he injured while running the read option. Why? Because he is protected on this play if he reads it right, which he does a very good job of. 9 times out of 10, he hands it off or drops back to pass. 1 time out of 10 does he keep it and run with it. But that is when the DE crashed down into Morris, so RG3 has a clear lane to run with blockers that have shed their initial LOS block and have moved to the second level as protection for him.

 

[JDM]

Against a disciplined defense (and that doesn't even mean good) the read option is no more effective than any other run play. Every designed run to your QB increases the chances that he gets hit.

The math is straight forward.

 

[j_y19]

Against a disciplined defense (and that doesn't even mean good) the read option is no more effective than any other run play. Every designed run to your QB increases the chances that he gets hit.

The math is straight forward.

You are right, the math is straight forward. Every time a QB drops back into a pocket, their chances of getting hit increases. In fact, every time a QB has the ball in their hands, the chances of him getting injured increases. Our offense is designed around zone blocking and movement of the line, not necessarily pocket passing. Wether the read option is a more effective play (BTW, a RO is not exclusively a running play, there can be an option to pass) is debatable and varies by team and opponent. Against the Cowboys, the RO was a very effective running play.

As shark stated earlier, the mobile QB is not a fad, but is growing in popularity. Take a look at all the young QBs coming into the league now, the vast majority are mobile and the team's drafting them will use that mobility as a weapon. Its a natural evolution to counter the big, fast, DE/OLBs that have been killing traditional pocket passers. The RO and a mobile QB that can do damage with his legs freezes these aggressive DEs. They can no longer just pin their ears back and push forward. They have to stay at home first to make sure the QB hasn't kept the ball and running at the gap they would leave if the blitzed forward.

Your living in the past if you refuse to acknowledge this.