Redskins' Kirk Cousins: Still far apart on extension terms

[deanpet21]

no new deal was offered just another low ball deal already in place

irrelevant. They still approached KC on 12/15. My timeline is correct. So the only deal Allen nixed was one before the 2015 season. Right?

 

[Sharkinva]

Things we know from the responses of the last few months.

1. If Kirk is signed long term


A. There will be a portion of the fan base that will dissect his every throw. If he makes a mistake, it will be used as proof as to why we should NEVER have signed him long term. If he has a good game, it will be dismissed because of the level of talent we put around him.

B. Every loss will be because Kirk simply couldnt step up. Every win will be due to either the other team sucking or because we surrounded Kirk with so much talent.


2. If Kirk plays on the tag


A. There will be a portion of the fan base that will dissect his every throw. If he makes a mistake, it will be used as proof as to why we should NEVER have signed him long term. If he has a good game, it will be dismissed because of the level of talent we put around him.

B. Every loss will be because Kirk simply couldnt step up. Every win will be due to either the other team sucking or because we surrounded Kirk with so much talent.


C. NO matter how the season ends, these will be the first folks to say, we should let Kirk walk and do what ever it takes to trade up to #1 so we can draft the #1 QB in next years draft because he is automatically better than Cousins.

 

[gkekoa]

So if I have this right. Allen nixed a LTD from SM before the 2015 season. Then when KC was playing well they (meaning Allen and SM) went to KC in Dec. of 2015 to try to get a LTD done. Kc did not want any part of this. So the 2016 off season came. Skins offered a low ball deal of 16M. KC said no an played on the tag. Now the 2017 off season is here then the skins offerd 20m and Kc said no. Then the tag was applied again but a LTD could still happen before 7/15/17..

Is this correct skinsdad?

Your timeline is correct as far as I can tell, even though I see nothing of a 16 mil offer. Here is what you need to know if the timeline stuff is correct.

SM wanted to sign KC low, as you would any investment, because he thought the value would go up. He was right.

BA said no. Then when the value of KC went up to 19 million, BA wanted to buy at the price he WAS valued at, not what he IS valued at.

Then another year passes and BA again wants to buy at the previous year's value.

 

[Sharkinva]

 

[Sleepy T]

Your timeline is correct as far as I can tell, even though I see nothing of a 16 mil offer. Here is what you need to know if the timeline stuff is correct.

SM wanted to sign KC low, as you would any investment, because he thought the value would go up. He was right.

BA said no. Then when the value of KC went up to 19 million, BA wanted to buy at the price he WAS valued at, not what he IS valued at.

Then another year passes and BA again wants to buy at the previous year's value.

So let's take a look at this, if this timeline is correct...and skinsdads numbers are correct,

2013-Matt Stafford signed a contract worth $17.6 mill APY, at the time he had been a full time starter for approx 3-4 years and had a record of 17-28, hitting the prime of his career at this point.

2014-Alex Smith signed a contract worth $17 mill APY, at the time he had been a full time starter on and off for 8 years and was coming off a pro bowl year, had a record of 46-40-1. A proven, solid (albeit unspectacular) commodity.

2014-KC has a $16 mill APY contract in hand before Allen shitcans it, at the time he had zero seasons as a full time starter, and a record of 2-7 over 3 seasons..

...And some of you wonder why Allen nixed it? Easy to say now that he screwed it up....

 

[Sharkinva]

So let's take a look at this, if this timeline is correct...and skinsdads numbers are correct,

2013-Matt Stafford signed a contract worth $17.6 mill APY, at the time he had been a full time starter for approx 3-4 years and had a record of 17-28, hitting the prime of his career at this point.

2014-Alex Smith signed a contract worth $17 mill APY, at the time he had been a full time starter on and off for 8 years and was coming off a pro bowl year, had a record of 46-40-1. A proven, solid (albeit unspectacular) commodity.

2014-KC has a $16 mill APY contract in hand before Allen shitcans it, at the time he had zero seasons as a full time starter, and a record of 2-7 over 3 seasons..

...And some of you wonder why Allen nixed it? Easy to say now that he screwed it up....

Not speaking for any one else.

But here is why I think Allen Nixed the deal, and continues to try and look smarter than he is on the Cousins thing.

1. Signing Kirk long term before 2015 would all but admit publicly that he screwed up badly on the RG3 trade.

2. It would also be admitting that Mike Shannahan was right and also bring into serious doubt the decision to fire Mike and Kyle.

3. Kyle going on to be a top OC at other stops and publicly talking up Kirk couldnt help matters in the ego department.

4. Bruce and Dan honestly though Kirk would perform just poorly enough for them to force the RG3 rebirth movement, especially as how they had already picked up the 5th year option despite the GMs reservations.

So now we are at an Impasse. Bruce has got to know that if he screws this up, the idea that he is living off his fathers name and doesnt really ave the chops to be a top man will scar the living fuck out of his career going forward.


Add in the fact that if he signs Kirk long term and it fails, well you can recover from that. Hell the Texans got over the Oswiler signing, And plenty of other top guys have been able to get past bad signings. But the flip side is, if they go away from Kirk and he goes else where and does well while the Skins continue to make desperation moves to find a elite QB..... got to think he knows thats a legacy killer.


At this point I dont think the money is the issue so much as the excuse. Bruce doesnt want to admit he has botched this thing, and he also doesnt want to look foolish going forward. Because make no mistake, if he signs Kirk long term and the team fucks around and finishes 6-10, people will question the Cousins deal. But they will rip him a new asshole from top to bottom with the rest of the talent acquisition unless it turns out Kirk Was the sole reason the team failed.

 

[Ruzious]

Thats why I asked instead of assuming. I wanted to be clear as to what you were saying or hinting at.

After all, people around here have a tendency to assume (me included). But we are currently in a climate where if you think the team should stick with Cousins, you have automatically proclaimed him the greatest QB ever.

So yea, when you say things like Colt can play at an acceptable NFL level, from some one who has been known to suggest we should move on from Cousins, one might assume you were headed in that direction.

Um... you have quite the way of asking. When I post something... it is what is. There's no reason to jump to conclusions that aren't there.

 

[Ruzious]

7 seasons in the league & has barely sniffed the field in the last 5. Be honest - this guy is a career backup. Not sure if he will ever get there, but I can honestly say that I could see Cousins leading a team to a deep playoff run in the future. The only way that happens for McCoy is if he is a game manager & the team carries him - ala Trent Dilfer.

As for Cooley's opinion - so what. He is right and wrong about a lot of things & just because he played football doesn't make his opinion that much more valuable. Guys like Warren Sapp & Michael Irvin say a lot of stupid shit @ the NFL & players & they are HOFers.

His opinion matters because he's a helluvalot smarter than you are about Skins players and maybe even a little smarter than me. Sapp and Irvin... eh, who cares? We're talking about the Skins.

 

[Breed]

If Cousins is hypothetically traded, McCoy becomes the starter - not a backup - so I'm not sure what the point of your question is. Cousins is a better QB than McCoy, and McCoy sucked in his early years in the NFL, but at this point in their careers, I think people are vastly overrating the difference between Cousins and McCoy - considering McCoy's ability to extend plays. I think Cousins has solid mobility, but he doesn't use it to extend plays. Granted, Cousins has a better arm and a bigger body.

I like Colt. I think he has moxie and he can extend plays in a way Cuz can't. Colt may also throw a better ball on a full out run than Kirk does, but after that its a wrap. KC gets the nod in every other aspect of QBing, and in some aspects a significant nod, over Colt. With the biggest nod going to injury or Kirk's ability/blessings to stay injury free. I know you're not a proponent of this opinion, but I have my doubts Colt would make it through a full season.

I also think Cuz's running has been underrated by most everyone and under-used by the Skins. Kirk has above average wheels for a good 20-25 yards. But if the tweaked and hopefully upgraded RBBC handles 99% of the running I'll be OK with that.

 

[Ruzious]

HC job yes; however, his boss is the GM. The GM wanted answers because it wasn't being taken care of and when the locker room rumbles, it is time to step in.

Yeah, that's a tough situation. Generally I'd say the GM should talk to the head coach - who should then talk to the player. But it seems like the coach shouldn't have let that situation fester, so I have no problem with the GM stepping in there. Gotta figure Gruden must have talke to Cravens about that and did not get the message through. Scot realizes that once a player gets a rep for being soft, that player can get devalued very quickly, and he needed to nip that in the bud. That's what happened with Keenan Robinson here.

 

[Ruzious]

I like Colt. I think he has moxie and he can extend plays in a way Cuz can't. Colt may also throw a better ball on a full out run than Kirk does, but after that its a wrap. KC gets the nod in every other aspect of QBing, and in some aspects a significant nod, over Colt. With the biggest nod going to injury or Kirk's ability/blessings to stay injury free. I know you're not a proponent of this opinion, but I have my doubts Colt would make it through a full season.

I also think Cuz's running has been underrated by most everyone and under-used by the Skins. Kirk has above average wheels for a good 20-25 yards. But if the tweaked and hopefully upgraded RBBC handles 99% of the running I'll be OK with that.

You're right - a big problem with Colt is - Can he stay healthy for a full year? I don't know if he can, but it does help to have a good pass-blocking O-line. Cousins will most likely stay healthy ironically because he doesn't try to extend plays and because he gets rid of the ball quickly and has a strong QB body.

 

[skinsdad62]

His opinion matters because he's a helluvalot smarter than you are about Skins players and maybe even a little smarter than me. Sapp and Irvin... eh, who cares? We're talking about the Skins.

kind of lost that a lot when he ran with that SM story about drinking fiasco

 

[gkekoa]

So let's take a look at this, if this timeline is correct...and skinsdads numbers are correct,

2013-Matt Stafford signed a contract worth $17.6 mill APY, at the time he had been a full time starter for approx 3-4 years and had a record of 17-28, hitting the prime of his career at this point.

2014-Alex Smith signed a contract worth $17 mill APY, at the time he had been a full time starter on and off for 8 years and was coming off a pro bowl year, had a record of 46-40-1. A proven, solid (albeit unspectacular) commodity.

2014-KC has a $16 mill APY contract in hand before Allen shitcans it, at the time he had zero seasons as a full time starter, and a record of 2-7 over 3 seasons..

...And some of you wonder why Allen nixed it? Easy to say now that he screwed it up....

We don't know what the guaranteed portion of that 2015 contract was. I still haven't seen the article that said it was offered.

Again though, you are missing the point. BA wants to buy each season at the previous year's prices. That isn't how it works.

If the 2015 thing is true, what that shows is just how astute SM was.

 

[Ruzious]

kind of lost that a lot when he ran with that SM story about drinking fiasco

Not really. Cooley's got a big mouth, but that doesn't mean anything about his knowledge of football.

 

[deanpet21]

We don't know what the guaranteed portion of that 2015 contract was. I still haven't seen the article that said it was offered.

Again though, you are missing the point. BA wants to buy each season at the previous year's prices. That isn't how it works.

If the 2015 thing is true, what that shows is just how astute SM was.

If my timeline is true then Allen nixed a LTD in the offseason of 2015 b/c he wasn't sure if KC was going to workout or not. Is this right?

 

[Caliskinsfan]

Not sure whether this has been posted in this thread as I don't bothering reading the millionth rehash anymore.


I agree with this take

 

[Sharkinva]

If my timeline is true then Allen nixed a LTD in the offseason of 2015 b/c he wasn't sure if KC was going to workout or not. Is this right?

Technically not.

From what i have read or heard, Bruce nixed the LTD at that time more because it was decided they didnt want to risk further damaging the relationship with Griffin as some people still thought at that time he would ultimately be our long term QB. In other words, signing Kirk long term at the start of 2015 would have been the point where the RG3 train died, instead we dragged that on for the entire 2015 season.

 

[Caliskinsfan]

Ha!

 

[deanpet21]

Technically not.

From what i have read or heard, Bruce nixed the LTD at that time more because it was decided they didnt want to risk further damaging the relationship with Griffin as some people still thought at that time he would ultimately be our long term QB. In other words, signing Kirk long term at the start of 2015 would have been the point where the RG3 train died, instead we dragged that on for the entire 2015 season.

I believe that is bullshit and here is why. All thru the 2014 season Gruden came out publicly and blasted RG3 for his mechanics and ability. He wanted KC as his starter. So why was RG3 in the picture? The only reason why he was on the team is b/c of contract reasons. The RG3 era was done at the end of the 2014 season.

If Allen had doubts about KC for the start of the 2015 season wouldn't that be normal b/c he was unproven at the time?

 

[gkekoa]

I believe that is bullshit and here is why. All thru the 2014 season Gruden came out publicly and blasted RG3 for his mechanics and ability. He wanted KC as his starter. So why was RG3 in the picture? The only reason why he was on the team is b/c of contract reasons. The RG3 era was done at the end of the 2014 season.

If Allen had doubts about KC for the start of the 2015 season wouldn't that be normal b/c he was unproven at the time?

You are totally missing the point. Regardless of reasoning, SM wanted to sign KC then at what is now an incredible bargain but was trumped by BA. Fine...I get that one.

Then the next season BA wanted the previous year's price. Then, the same thing happened again.

He needs to understand, every year market value goes up. He doesn't seem to get it and neither does his clone.