Redskins' Kirk Cousins: Still far apart on extension terms

[gkekoa]

If we FT KC, he will immediately sign the tag guaranteeing him 35 mil. They can't pull the contract back. The Redskins can look to trade him after that; however, what team will start off with the 35 mil tag as a starting point. KC would have to agree to any contract that comes after this. The following season he will be an UFA.

A third round pick in compensation is a joke. The Skins will and should slap the TT on KC and see if they are willing to match the market.

 

[Sleepy T]

If we FT KC, he will immediately sign the tag guaranteeing him 35 mil. They can't pull the contract back. The Redskins can look to trade him after that; however, what team will start off with the 35 mil tag as a starting point. KC would have to agree to any contract that comes after this. The following season he will be an UFA.

A third round pick in compensation is a joke. The Skins will and should slap the TT on KC and see if they are willing to match the market.

Ok. So I misunderstood Shark above (or misread). If KC signs the non exclusive franchise tag next year at $35 million he can talk to other teams, but he doesn't have to talk to them, much less sign a contract right?? In which case we cannot rescind the tag?

If that's the case I don't see any scenario where we don't put the TT on him. I just don't see Dan rolling the dice that KC wouldn't grab him in his nut sack AGAIN and squeeze really hard.

 

[gkekoa]

Ok. So I misunderstood Shark above (or misread). If KC signs the non exclusive franchise tag next year at $35 million he can talk to other teams, but he doesn't have to talk to them, much less sign a contract right?? In which case we cannot rescind the tag?

If that's the case I don't see any scenario where we don't put the TT on him. I just don't see Dan rolling the dice that KC wouldn't grab him in his nut sack AGAIN and squeeze really hard.

I am with you. I can't see anything other than thee TT.

 

[Sharkinva]

Ok. So I misunderstood Shark above (or misread). If KC signs the non exclusive franchise tag next year at $35 million he can talk to other teams, but he doesn't have to talk to them, much less sign a contract right?? In which case we cannot rescind the tag?

If that's the case I don't see any scenario where we don't put the TT on him. I just don't see Dan rolling the dice that KC wouldn't grab him in his nut sack AGAIN and squeeze really hard.

Actually, if he signs the tender, he can not talk to other teams.

Josh Norman never signed his tender, he also never talked to any other teams.

When the Panthers decided they would not get him on a long term deal they felt comfortable with, they rescinded the tag and made him an unrestricted free agent.

The reason they got no comp pick for him this year is because by tagging him, they had the ability to retain him and choose not to.

The reason I think the trans tag is out of play is because some one would make him an offer we could match, but wont.


Now if we tag him and he signs, they could try to trade him, but then we are back to where we are right now, Kirks agent will at that point push for Guaranteed money of $85M in the first two years..... $34M on the 2018 tag, and $55M as if e could be tagged in 2019, it would be 160% of the 2018 tag.


If Kirk plays on the tag this year, any deal for him in 2018 will start at $80M guaranteed and between $27-30M a year annually. Unless he totally fails this year.

 

[Sleepy T]

Actually, if he signs the tender, he can not talk to other teams.

Now if we tag him and he signs, they could try to trade him, but then we are back to where we are right now, Kirks agent will at that point push for Guaranteed money of $85M in the first two years..... $34M on the 2018 tag, and $55M as if e could be tagged in 2019, it would be 160% of the 2018 tag.


If Kirk plays on the tag this year, any deal for him in 2018 will start at $80M guaranteed and between $27-30M a year annually. Unless he totally fails this year.

OK, So if we put it out there and KC were to not sign the non-exclusive tag ($35 mill), he could negotiate with other teams for a LTD.

BUT, he could come back and sign it (unless we pulled it first) if he wasn't garnering the interest or $$ that he was looking for. But if he signed the tender, he is off the market. Man this stuff can get complicated.

Now, If he reportedly won't sign for absolutely no less than 2 years guaranteed $60 million this year ($24/2017+$35/2018), then what makes you think he wouldn't want more guaranteed than 2 tags/$85 million next year? From what I have read on this board and other places, it sounds like it could take upwards of $70-$80 million guaranteed to get it done THIS year.

I guess at some point KC isn't going to be able to demand earth shattering money no matter what the need and wants for his services are. There has to be a ceiling.

 

[Sharkinva]

OK, So if we put it out there and KC were to not sign the non-exclusive tag ($35 mill), he could negotiate with other teams for a LTD.

BUT, he could come back and sign it (unless we pulled it first) if he wasn't garnering the interest or $$ that he was looking for. But if he signed the tender, he is off the market. Man this stuff can get complicated.

Now, If he reportedly won't sign for absolutely no less than 2 years guaranteed $60 million this year ($24/2017+$35/2018), then what makes you think he wouldn't want more guaranteed than 2 tags/$85 million next year? From what I have read on this board and other places, it sounds like it could take upwards of $70-$80 million guaranteed to get it done THIS year.

I guess at some point KC isn't going to be able to demand earth shattering money no matter what the need and wants for his services are. There has to be a ceiling.

In theory you are right.

IN principle, lets make some out of this world what if's.

1. What if Kirk fucks around and gets, or even is in the talks for League MVP?
2. What if Kirk wins the Division (with help from he team, but a very solid performance from him and an improvement on the last two years)
3. What if Kirk then performs well and wins a Playoffs game, or hell two.

4... I aint going to go Super Bowl winner...


But lets say he hits #1-3...... And he is a free agent or gets the non exclusive tag...

Answer.... Kirk becomes this

 

[skinsdad62]

they will franchise tag him again . the TT wont work out best for them

 

[gkekoa]

No way they franchise him. We will not eat 35 million. Nobody will sign him at 35 million next year. We have a much better chance of matching a LTD.

 

[skinsdad62]

i disagree with you there you FT him again (non exclusive ) and force a team to give up draft capitol as well as cash to get him . he gets boxed into a corner , and must hold out and he will have to show up by game 10 or lose a years worth of service

the best thing is to sign him LT and then you can draft a qb at the right spot and not be forced into a bad trade

 

[Sharkinva]

No way they franchise him. We will not eat 35 million. Nobody will sign him at 35 million next year. We have a much better chance of matching a LTD.

Thats the thing, no one needs to sign him at $35M, all they need to do is make him an offer that we wont match. If it gets to the point where we tag him, Im sure he will know exactly what the Skins are offering before he talks to another team. And it will be the same with the trans tag. If he has the type of year every Redskins fan should be hoping for, some one will make him that $65M at signing, 80-90M guaranteed type deal that Dan wont want to match.

 

[Sleepy T]

Thats the thing, no one needs to sign him at $35M, all they need to do is make him an offer that we wont match. If it gets to the point where we tag him, Im sure he will know exactly what the Skins are offering before he talks to another team. And it will be the same with the trans tag. If he has the type of year every Redskins fan should be hoping for, some one will make him that $65M at signing, 80-90M guaranteed type deal that Dan wont want to match.

That may be true, but if we tag him and he knows we (or any other team for that matter) won't offer him the kind of money that the 1 year tag will amount to, who is to say he doesn't call our bluff, kick the can down the road AGAIN and sign the damn thing?? I think he would tickled to death if we tagged him again. I think that is my (and gks..Dans?) concern.

i disagree with you there you FT him again (non exclusive ) and force a team to give up draft capitol as well as cash to get him . he gets boxed into a corner , and must hold out and he will have to show up by game 10 or lose a years worth of service

the best thing is to sign him LT and then you can draft a qb at the right spot and not be forced into a bad trade

That sounds fine and dandy..but hold out? I'm not following/confused. Why the hell would he hold out when he could sign the tag and play one season for $35 million dollars?

 

[gkekoa]

i disagree with you there you FT him again (non exclusive ) and force a team to give up draft capitol as well as cash to get him . he gets boxed into a corner , and must hold out and he will have to show up by game 10 or lose a years worth of service

the best thing is to sign him LT and then you can draft a qb at the right spot and not be forced into a bad trade

Yes but is a team willing to give up a huge deal that already sees him making 35 million next season alone and give up that much draft capital? I just don't see it. I would let the Skins choke on that 35 million FT if I were any other team.

Why would KC not show up if he is making 35 million next season? Why would he hold out? He would show up every day and work then be a FA the following season. He would have made 19, 24, and 35 million for three seasons, and then cash in. That third tag was put there because it is asinine to use it. KC is never boxed in because he has all the leverage.

Most know the best thing is to sign him long term. Why would he sign here next season long term though? He puts more contractual pressure on the Skins by forcing them to use either tag because the going rate for QBs will not be 27 million, let alone 35 million.

 

[Sharkinva]

That may be true, but if we tag him and he knows we (or any other team for that matter) won't offer him the kind of money that the 1 year tag will amount to, who is to say he doesn't call our bluff, kick the can down the road AGAIN and sign the damn thing?? I think he would tickled to death if we tagged him again. I think that is my (and gks..Dans?) concern.



That sounds fine and dandy..but hold out? I'm not following/confused. Why the hell would he hold out when he could sign the tag and play one season for $35 million dollars?

Thats all fine and dandy to worry he will just kick the can down the road again. But the reality is until the Redskins make some kind of real offer, they are just dragging the can down the road. And not because they are afraid he wont sign at any price. Because if they make him a real offer and he refuses, it takes THEM off the hook.

The only legitimate reason to keep dragging this out from the front office perspective is the old.. well what if we sign him and we have a shot at (insert sexy new rookie name here).

Make an offer, get a reply from him one way or the other, or basically they look like the guy that says baby I love you while he is eye fucking the chick on the dance floor.

 

[gkekoa]

Thats the thing, no one needs to sign him at $35M, all they need to do is make him an offer that we wont match. If it gets to the point where we tag him, Im sure he will know exactly what the Skins are offering before he talks to another team. And it will be the same with the trans tag. If he has the type of year every Redskins fan should be hoping for, some one will make him that $65M at signing, 80-90M guaranteed type deal that Dan wont want to match.

I know he won't get a 35 million dollar a year contract but that will get factored in. You figure 35 million next season, 25 million after that and a 15 mil SB guaranteed...75 mil guaranteed at signing on a 5 year, 135 mil contract minimum.

 

[skinsdad62]

That may be true, but if we tag him and he knows we (or any other team for that matter) won't offer him the kind of money that the 1 year tag will amount to, who is to say he doesn't call our bluff, kick the can down the road AGAIN and sign the damn thing?? I think he would tickled to death if we tagged him again. I think that is my (and gks..Dans?) concern.



That sounds fine and dandy..but hold out? I'm not following/confused. Why the hell would he hold out when he could sign the tag and play one season for $35 million dollars?

if he wants to force a trade or leave would be one reason .

 

[Sleepy T]

if he wants to force a trade or leave would be one reason .

True, but the trade partner may not be who he wants it to be and the team he wants it to be may not be willing to pay the money he feels like he should get. He doesn't necessarily get too decide the team and the money too.

So he may have a decision to make. Is leaving or being traded THAT important to him. He might have $35 million reasons NOT to leave sitting on the table.

 

[skinsdad62]

True, but the trade partner may not be who he wants it to be and the team he wants it to be may not be willing to pay the money he feels like he should get. He doesn't necessarily get too decide the team and the money too.

So he may have a decision to make. Is leaving or being traded THAT important to him. He might have $35 million reasons NOT to leave sitting on the table.

well it all depends if money /greed is the driving force . money isnt everything

 

[skinsdad62]

By Jerry Brewer Columnist July 7 at 2:29 PM

The future of Kirk Cousins — the cloud that hovers over every DMV day — returns now to burden a week of your summer. There are only a handful of business days left until the July 17 franchise tag deadline. If the wishy-washy Washington Redskins don’t reach an agreement with Cousins on a long-term contract by then, he’ll make $23.9 million next season playing on that tag, and then, no matter how anyone in Ashburn spins it, we’ll return to our regularly scheduled hell.

At the start of this long and embarrassingly non-committal nightmare, the debate was about Cousins’s worth. The situation was crazy: A player who had flopped during the first nine sporadic starts of his NFL career suddenly turned into a starter putting up ridiculous numbers. It was hard to determine his value. More than a year later, there’s greater clarity, but Cousins has been so productive and the franchise has managed the situation so poorly that a multiyear contract would require giving Cousins record-setting money.

The quarterback isn’t the one under heavy scrutiny anymore. The franchise is, again. Of most importance now is how much Washington values stability. Considering Daniel Snyder’s history as owner, stability is about as important as rapport with the media. But Washington has spent more than two years rebuilding with a focus on drafting, developing and rewarding its own players. Now the team has a very good option at quarterback, one who thrives in Coach Jay Gruden’s offensive system, but it is dangerously close to breaking from that philosophy and losing a homegrown talent at the most difficult and essential position in team sports.

[Sally Jenkins: Kirk Cousins could make a difference for all NFL players, if he’s willing to]

The next week is crucial to solidifying or destroying Washington’s future. Without a new contract, this will be Cousins’s final season here, assuming the franchise doesn’t do anything more financially absurd than its current double-franchise tag, pay-as-you-go strategy. Placing a third franchise tag on Cousins would cost more than $34 million. Washington could also use the transition tag, which provides less protection but would still allow the franchise the right to match another team’s offer for Cousins. But that would cost about $28 million next season if no deal materializes.

Two franchise tags already will have cost Washington nearly $44 million. Another year of this nonsense would mean doling out $72 million or $78 million, depending on which tag is used.

Last summer, if Washington had negotiated harder and not stood firm on a lowball offer of about $16 million per season, it could have signed Cousins for something in the neighborhood of $44 million guaranteed.

With that reasonable guarantee, it would have been a four-year contract with a full value averaging between $18-19 million per season. That’s what multiple sources believe would have been a deal-maker for Cousins and agent Mike McCartney. Washington wanted to see more because, at that time, Cousins had one good season — which concluded with a second-half statistical explosion — on his résumé. It’s understandable. I even agreed with the decision. But the franchise tag shouldn’t have been reason to hold firm to an unrealistic offer. The offers needed to improve, and the conversations needed to advance. If nothing else, it would have been progress toward the current wave of negotiations.

[Will Doug Williams have the powers to shape the Redskins? ‘I’ve never been a yes guy.’]

To be fair, there are some aspects to Cousins’s performance and the league’s rising quarterback salaries that make this complicated and somewhat unprecedented. Cousins has thrown for an incredible 9,083 yards and 54 touchdowns with an excellent 99.3 passer rating the past two seasons combined. He threw for 4,917 yards last season, the 15th-most in NFL history. It’s difficult to make sense of such productivity out of a player who looked like a classic backup his first three seasons. It’s even more difficult to assess because, despite those elite numbers, Cousins is still considered a second-tier NFL quarterback at best.

But the market for quarterbacks continues to explode. Cousins may not be elite, but because Washington is attempting to pay him right now, he wants a fair chunk of a salary cap that keeps growing, not to be slotted in some imaginary salary pecking order with quarterbacks who signed their deals years ago. It’s unfortunate that Cousins couldn’t have exploded earlier; it would have made this process much easier. Then again, the franchise would have been too obsessed with Robert Griffin III to notice any earlier.

There is a Griffin hangover to consider. Washington has yet to appreciate fully how difficult it was for Cousins to emerge from Griffin’s shadow and how the past has subtle influences on the present. Cousins is humble and soft-spoken, but he has an ego. He wants to be respected as the franchise quarterback he has become, not left to feel like he’s a good player that Washington created in a lab.

Can that be accomplished after two franchise tags and two offseasons of fruitless contract negotiations? I’m doubtful. Washington keeps sending the message that it takes two sides to complete a deal. The implication is that Washington fears Cousins doesn’t want to be here, especially with Kyle Shanahan now in San Francisco. If that’s the case, it’s hard to blame him because most franchises wouldn’t have taken this long to present an offer truly worth contemplating.

[Mailbag: What kind of numbers should the Redskins be throwing at Kirk Cousins?]

Monday Morning Post Up

All the NBA news and commentary you need, once a week.



This is the week for Washington to present its best offer. With the deadline as a pressure point, both sides should talk numbers for the first time in months. They’ve had amicable conversations and frequent communication, but new figures haven’t been put on the table in a while. In a sense, Washington is acting like the teenager who flirts but is afraid to ask the pretty girl out for fear of rejection. He should have asked her out before everyone realized how attractive she is.

There’s little time left now. The big dance is almost here. The franchise must equip Eric Schaffer, the senior vice president who is skilled at negotiating and structuring contracts, with the power to give Cousins something to ponder.

If Washington doesn’t offer a deal that includes about $58 million at signing (the equivalent of this year’s and next year’s franchise tags) and about $70-$80 million guaranteed overall, then the question of where Cousins wants to play is moot because the team that drafted him doesn’t really want to consummate a deal. It would prefer to have one strange, lame-duck season and then receive compensation to move on to an uncertain future. For all the good work Washington has done to slowly build a competitive roster, its direction would be in doubt without the quarterback around which it built.

Many would say instability is inevitable. Many would say instability is Washington’s permanent residence. But many would happily eat crow if given the opportunity.

The franchise is now on the clock to alter perception — or awaken rancor and chaos.

the one phrase , dean and others , in this piece is it" isnt the player who is under scrutiny it is the franchise is "

it also says no offers have been made , another mantra being floated out there , if no fair offer is made then its the team 's FO who is screwing this up

 

[Mitziman]

How does a good looking, god loving, squeaky clean starting QB for one of the most valuable franchises in the league not have major endorsement deals?

I find it interesting that companies who spend millions of dollars on top players in this league haven’t showed the love for KC, that they want him. Perhaps, corporations are waiting to see if KC can lead a team to a playoff win before signing him to one of those multi-million dollar endorsement contracts?

#Virginatireandautowantedme

 

[j_y19]

You mean you haven't seen the Eastern Automotive commercials?