Reasons why the defense isn't great.

[lionstop1]

I just refuse to believe the reasons why the defense has struggled is because Mayhew has taken chances on offensive players in the past. Here are my four reasons that the defense has struggled:

Scheme: That conservative, wide-nine crap was for the birds and one of the main reasons why the defense wasnt that good. The quality of the front four didnt match the ability of the secondary.

Chris Houston: Houston sucks and isn't a #1. Mayhew did show some loyalty but Houston didnt come through. Hard to stop teams when you have bad schemes and CBs.

Louis Delmas: Very over-rated player. He did nothing but stay hurt and miss tackles. Therefore, he was a liability and forced the Lions to move on.

Nick Fairley: Talk about inconsistent. Fairley doesn't even show up ever week and cant take advantage of other teams doubling Suh.

If these guys would have just been the players they were expected to be, the defense wouldnt be so bad. The scheme was terrible too.

 

[RobBase]

Fairley is awesome. The D struggles because we have no corners, and never have. 2 INT all last year in total. That's it. This is why the Lions took Slay last year in the 2nd, and why they'll most likely take Dennard or Gilbert in round 1.

Houston is done in Detroit. Ya, he might play here one more year, but his best days are behind him, and he is officially in replaceable mode.

 

[lionstop1]

Fairley is decent but he has lot more to prove. I bet he plays really good this year since its his last year though.

 

[Naughtymax]

I just refuse to believe the reasons why the defense has struggled is because Mayhew has taken chances on offensive players in the past. Here are my four reasons that the defense has struggled:

Scheme: That conservative, wide-nine crap was for the birds and one of the main reasons why the defense wasnt that good. The quality of the front four didnt match the ability of the secondary.

Chris Houston: Houston sucks and isn't a #1. Mayhew did show some loyalty but Houston didnt come through. Hard to stop teams when you have bad schemes and CBs.

Louis Delmas: Very over-rated player. He did nothing but stay hurt and miss tackles. Therefore, he was a liability and forced the Lions to move on.

Nick Fairley: Talk about inconsistent. Fairley doesn't even show up ever week and cant take advantage of other teams doubling Suh.

If these guys would have just been the players they were expected to be, the defense wouldnt be so bad. The scheme was terrible too.

What about the scheme?

Agreed to all except that I think Houston is just a #2CB being forced to play as a #1. He'd be fine covering teams' secondary guys.

 

[gvsulaker82]

Agree max. Houston is not a number one cb and never was. Put him where he belongs and the lions will see improvement. Lion stop, Besides suh, fairley and delmas what defenders have the lions drafted in the first or second round since in the past five years not counting 2013? But they have drafted stafford, best, pettigrew, leshoure, young, reiff, and broyles. At least two of those picks required the lions to trade away future picks as well. (leshoure and best I believe). This is one of the main reasons the lions defense has struggled. If they dont bring in legitimate talent on the defensive side of the ball, the defense will struggle, period.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

If they dont bring in legitimate talent on the defensive side of the ball, the defense will struggle, period.

Detroit has used the plug and play route on the defensive side of the ball for a long time now. It isn't as if this is some big secret. Some just fail to accept this.

 

[Quackerjacked]

The biggest problem with the defense is our cornerbacks. They can't cover, tackle, or stay healthy. Houston has been good at times, but was plain awful. The rest are young and haven't taken that step to get to be able to be relied on. On top of having average defensive backs at best, they are always injured.

 

[Quackerjacked]

The way we played the wide nine was not conservative. Low blitz numbers and conservative are not synonymous. We played a lot of man free or man with a single high. We play down hill against the run, and he rush the pass first. It's a very aggressive defense even if you aren't blitzing a lot. The problem is that type of aggressive defense works best when you have physical corners able to play press man. Ours were awful.

 

[Kreton]

Coaching and scheme. Those two things have made our OK defense look even worse. Good coaching can make OK players look good or bad coaching can make OK players look bad. We've had pass poor defensive coaching for as long as I can remember. Hopefully this new staff can get more out of these guys.

 

[Old Lion]

The biggest problem with the defense is our cornerbacks. They can't cover, tackle, or stay healthy. Houston has been good at times, but was plain awful. The rest are young and haven't taken that step to get to be able to be relied on. On top of having average defensive backs at best, they are always injured.

Actually they can cover, they just cant defend. Knock the damn ball away! Too many balls that should have been defended were caught when our guys were right inside the WRs jersies.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

If Chris Houston...the guy ATL who cut when they badly needed CBs, is your #1 CB, you can start there...he should be the 3rd CB playing slot on a playoff caliber team.

 

[tpaulus_2]

If Chris Houston...the guy ATL who cut when they badly needed CBs, is your #1 CB, you can start there...he should be the 3rd CB playing slot on a playoff caliber team.

When did Atlanta cut Chris Houston? That's news to me, and probably just about everyone else, I'm assuming.

Agreed that he'd be best as the nickel CB playing in the slot.

 

[jayfan]

He was drafted by Atlanta in 2007, and was traded to Detroit in 2010 for 6th and a conditional 7th the following season. Atl96Steeler's point still stands, though. You don't trade a player for a 6th unless you're done with him.

 

[tpaulus_2]

He was drafted by Atlanta in 2007, and was traded to Detroit in 2010 for 6th and a conditional 7th the following season. Atl96Steeler's point still stands, though. You don't trade a player for a 6th unless you're done with him.

Then I guess I fail to see that point. Obviously Atlanta was done with him, but it's equally obvious that was a foolish decision. Prior to falling apart last season he gave us 3 seasons of quality CB play, even if he was asked to play above his ability and be our#1 CB (he's a number 2 guy through and through). For that price Atlanta would have been much wiser to insert him as their nickle or dime guy and not look back.

He's already given us great value on our two picks we gave up, even if he never plays another down. Fill up a hat with the names of all the 6th and 7th round draft picks over the last four years and start drawing names- odds are you'll be at it a while before you find a guy who made a bigger impact then Houston. Sure, sometimes you might get lucky and pull out an impact player, but that's pretty rare with those picks. Houston giving us 3 years of quality stating play at a key position for a 6th and 7th rounder was a good trade for us, no questions asked.

Hopefully Houston can rebound as a slot guy for us and continue to add value to the deal, but if not he's a goner next offseason, imo...

 

[ATL96Steeler]

When did Atlanta cut Chris Houston? That's news to me, and probably just about everyone else, I'm assuming.

Agreed that he'd be best as the nickel CB playing in the slot.

Stand corrected on how he got to DET...but not his ability as a starting CB...had he stayed long enough he eventually would've gotten cut.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

Then I guess I fail to see that point. Obviously Atlanta was done with him, but it's equally obvious that was a foolish decision. Prior to falling apart last season he gave us 3 seasons of quality CB play, even if he was asked to play above his ability and be our#1 CB (he's a number 2 guy through and through). For that price Atlanta would have been much wiser to insert him as their nickle or dime guy and not look back.

He's already given us great value on our two picks we gave up, even if he never plays another down. Fill up a hat with the names of all the 6th and 7th round draft picks over the last four years and start drawing names- odds are you'll be at it a while before you find a guy who made a bigger impact then Houston. Sure, sometimes you might get lucky and pull out an impact player, but that's pretty rare with those picks. Houston giving us 3 years of quality stating play at a key position for a 6th and 7th rounder was a good trade for us, no questions asked.

Hopefully Houston can rebound as a slot guy for us and continue to add value to the deal, but if not he's a goner next offseason, imo...

My point all along.

 

[gvsulaker82]

If Chris Houston...the guy ATL who cut when they badly needed CBs, is your #1 CB, you can start there...he should be the 3rd CB playing slot on a playoff caliber team.

You are right. Hes guarding studs when he shouldnt be. He can be valuable if put in a position to succeed.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

At what point do the fans stop finger pointing and making excuses and just accept the fact the reason the Lions are middle of the road on Defense is................they sorely lack impact players in the back 7.

We can say it is scheme, we can say it was coaching, we can say it was the weather, we can make excuses all day long.

Our best CB last year was a 33 year old (Mathis) who was brought in, in August, I believe and he is still without a team right now. Our #1 CB Houston, should be a #2 and honestly, I think he is best suited for the nickel package.

As Rob Base pointed out -- We had one safety who never practiced with the team (Delmas), an OLB in Ashlee Palmer who played in 16 games and finished with 33 tackles, and a group of CBs left all drafted in the same year (Bentley, Greenwood, Green) who finished with zero interceptions between the 3 and a grand total of 8 passes defensed. Slay showed flashes of being really good, but it is going to take time for him to get acclimated to the NFL, but at least he has shown he has the ability to be really good.

We had 2 solid linebackers in Levy and Tulloch, a solid DL and a safety who played well at times in Quin (though for those talking down Delmas -- Delmas finished with more tackles, the same amount of sacks (2), the same amount of interceptions (3) and 1 less pass defensed (12-11).

When you have big holes to fill in your defense -- the good teams are going to make you pay. It is not as if you could swap the Lions defense with Seattle and the Lions players would all of a sudden be a dominating defense. It isn't going to happen. It takes talent to make schemes work. As much as we all hate Jim Schwartz, the two years prior to coming to Detroit, Tennessee's defense was ranked 5th and 6th in total defense, with Schwartz's scheme being used.

If Detroit adds talent to the defensive side of the ball, just like they have on the offensive side of the ball -- we will see an improvement on defense. If we 'draft for depth' this year, like Kreton stated in another thread, we will see alot of the same thing we have over the last couple years.

 

[Kreton]

At what point do the fans stop finger pointing and making excuses and just accept the fact the reason the Lions are middle of the road on Defense is................they sorely lack impact players in the back 7.

We can say it is scheme, we can say it was coaching, we can say it was the weather, we can make excuses all day long.

Our best CB last year was a 33 year old (Mathis) who was brought in, in August, I believe and he is still without a team right now. Our #1 CB Houston, should be a #2 and honestly, I think he is best suited for the nickel package.

As Rob Base pointed out -- We had one safety who never practiced with the team (Delmas), an OLB in Ashlee Palmer who played in 16 games and finished with 33 tackles, and a group of CBs left all drafted in the same year (Bentley, Greenwood, Green) who finished with zero interceptions between the 3 and a grand total of 8 passes defensed. Slay showed flashes of being really good, but it is going to take time for him to get acclimated to the NFL, but at least he has shown he has the ability to be really good.

We had 2 solid linebackers in Levy and Tulloch, a solid DL and a safety who played well at times in Quin (though for those talking down Delmas -- Delmas finished with more tackles, the same amount of sacks (2), the same amount of interceptions (3) and 1 less pass defensed (12-11).

When you have big holes to fill in your defense -- the good teams are going to make you pay. It is not as if you could swap the Lions defense with Seattle and the Lions players would all of a sudden be a dominating defense. It isn't going to happen. It takes talent to make schemes work. As much as we all hate Jim Schwartz, the two years prior to coming to Detroit, Tennessee's defense was ranked 5th and 6th in total defense, with Schwartz's scheme being used.

If Detroit adds talent to the defensive side of the ball, just like they have on the offensive side of the ball -- we will see an improvement on defense. If we 'draft for depth' this year, like Kreton stated in another thread, we will see alot of the same thing we have over the last couple years.

If you were to watch our games from last year more often than not our offense hurt our team (really bad turnovers and dropped passes) than our defense did. I dont think anyone would say they wouldn't want to see any aspect of our team get better, so obviously everyone wants to see the defense get better, but there are bigger problems coming into this offseason.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

there are bigger problems coming into this offseason.

What bigger problems could the Lions have when their best CB was Rashean Mathis?