Ray, Drew Brees Situation w/ the Saints!?

[Flyingiguana]

so you're proving my point, we need more than the crap we have now at wr. colston as a rookie was 10x better than crabtree now

 

[shouldakepowens]

Anyone who thinks brees wouldn't make this offense better is delusional . Hell you could go out and sign Henderson as well.

 

[Flyingiguana]

Anyone who thinks brees wouldn't make this offense better is delusional . Hell you could go out and sign Henderson as well.

there's this thing called the cap, we can't pay brees the kind of money it would take to get him from the saints and make the needed upgrades on offense.

 

[shouldakepowens]

there's this thing called the cap, we can't pay brees the kind of money it would take to get him from the saints and make the needed upgrades on offense.

So Henderson is gonna break the bank? Brees plus an extra Wr would be huge upgrade over alex and a Wr .

 

[shouldakepowens]

Also Brees would have frank gore in the back field not Pierre Thomas or reggie bush or whoever else they threw out there for him

 

[Flyingiguana]

So Henderson is gonna break the bank? Brees plus an extra Wr would be huge upgrade over alex and a Wr .

plus we will lose guys on defense. we also wouldn't have a red zone target. not to mention an interior line with issues. we will definately need some sort of go to target for when the blocking breaks down.

heck, there's even an article on espn talking about how brees' contract could break the saints. is brees enough to overcome what u give up in other areas?

 

[Crimsoncrew]

so you're proving my point, we need more than the crap we have now at wr. colston as a rookie was 10x better than crabtree now

10x, huh? And yet, the Jags are going to give up the 38th pick for Crabtree when they could just go after Colston in FA? At least your delusions are independent of one another.

I would agree that, even as a rookie, Colston was probably better than Crabtree is now. A little better. They didn't have anything at TE, though, whereas we've got one of the most dynamic players at the position.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

plus we will lose guys on defense. we also wouldn't have a red zone target. not to mention an interior line with issues. we will definately need some sort of go to target for when the blocking breaks down.

heck, there's even an article on espn talking about how brees' contract could break the saints. is brees enough to overcome what u give up in other areas?

Who was Brady's red zone target before Gronk? Who was Peyton's red zone target? Elite passers don't need elite receivers or guys with superior physical ability.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

there's this thing called the cap, we can't pay brees the kind of money it would take to get him from the saints and make the needed upgrades on offense.

The point that you keep missing is that we don't need all the same upgrades if we have Brees. As you have repeatedly conceded, Smith needs very good if not pro bowl talent at every position to succeed. Brees doesn't need that.

With Brees, or with Manning for that matter, the OL looks better at pass blocking because these guys are better at reading the D and making the right adjustments. They get the ball out quickly and take very few sacks. The OL looks better at run blocking because defenses have to think pass first, giving us more room to run. The RBs look better because the D is more spread out and there is more room to run. The receivers look better because the QB is anticipating their breaks and hitting them in the hands and in stride. They don't have to get as open because the QB has pinpoint accuracy. We also threaten teams down the sidelines because our QB can make those throws consistently, opening the middle of the field to our larger, stronger receivers.

The point is that every single guy on offense looks better by upgrading the QB spot. Maybe we still need to add some pieces, but there's no reason we can't do that. And because of the stability at QB, rookies can transition more easily. It's a self-perpetuating phenomenon.

 

[Flyingiguana]

with brees we won't be able to make upgrades, we will also end up losing players. brees has a quick release and gets the ball out fast, so the line won't give up as many sacks. however, our interior line is still weak. remember brees vs the rams?

i dont know how many times even the announcers mentioned smith had nowhere to throw the ball because our wr's couldn't get open. brees has excellent accuracy, but if crabtree can't get seperation the ball will get knocked away.

 

[Ray_Dogg]

Looks like keeping Brees might blow up some of the Saints roster.

Drew Brees - QB - Saints

According to Yahoo! Sports' Jason Cole, the Saints and free agent Drew Brees remain "roughly $5 million a year apart" on a new contract.
That's a lot of ground to make up by Monday's franchise tag deadline. The Saints could free up $5 million by restructuring Will Smith's contract, and another $11 million by cutting MLB Jonathan Vilma and DT Sedrick Ellis. If the Saints are forced to use the exclusive franchise tag on Brees, they run the risk of losing both Marques Colston and Carl Nicks.
Related: Jonathan Vilma, Sedrick Ellis
Source: Yahoo! Sports
Mar 1 - 6:30 PM

 

[Flyingiguana]

Who was Brady's red zone target before Gronk? Who was Peyton's red zone target? Elite passers don't need elite receivers or guys with superior physical ability.

they both had wr's who could actually run routes, welker is the kind of underneath guy i'm hoping crabtree can turn into. manning had some of the top playmakers around him.

and both have had excellent offensive lines

 

[Flyingiguana]

Looks like keeping Brees might blow up some of the Saints roster.

Drew Brees - QB - Saints

According to Yahoo! Sports' Jason Cole, the Saints and free agent Drew Brees remain "roughly $5 million a year apart" on a new contract.
That's a lot of ground to make up by Monday's franchise tag deadline. The Saints could free up $5 million by restructuring Will Smith's contract, and another $11 million by cutting MLB Jonathan Vilma and DT Sedrick Ellis. If the Saints are forced to use the exclusive franchise tag on Brees, they run the risk of losing both Marques Colston and Carl Nicks.
Related: Jonathan Vilma, Sedrick Ellis
Source: Yahoo! Sports
Mar 1 - 6:30 PM

i'd love to have brees here, but can we handle a cap hit of 20-25 a year? having to cut vilma and ellis? wow

if they have to use the exclusive tag, that helps us to grab colston. i think he's one of the most underrated wr's.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

with brees we won't be able to make upgrades, we will also end up losing players. brees has a quick release and gets the ball out fast, so the line won't give up as many sacks. however, our interior line is still weak. remember brees vs the rams?

i dont know how many times even the announcers mentioned smith had nowhere to throw the ball because our wr's couldn't get open. brees has excellent accuracy, but if crabtree can't get seperation the ball will get knocked away.

We can still make upgrades. Let's say Brees eats up $15 million this year. That leaves us with something like $17 million. Let's say we franchise Goldson, leaving us with $11 million. That's more than enough to go after Meachem, especially if we tell him he's got the inside track on a starting spot with his old QB throwing to him. In the draft, we can add an interior OL and a WR. That is MORE than enough talent. And as I've noted before, open to Brees is not the same as open to Alex.

I'm not endorsing going out and breaking the bank for Brees. But you're acting like adding him won't upgrade this roster. That's absolutely preposterous.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

they both had wr's who could actually run routes, welker is the kind of underneath guy i'm hoping crabtree can turn into. manning had some of the top playmakers around him.

and both have had excellent offensive lines

Manning's OL was shit the past few years.

In 2006, Brees had Jamaal Brown, Jamar Nesbit, Jeff Faine, Jahri Evans as a rookie 4th round pick, and Jon Stinchcomb. Again, that's hardly an unbelievable group. It was a second-year OT who was decent, a journeyman, a retread, a later-round rookie, and a tolerable role player.

But you're right. The difference between Peyton Manning and Alex Smith is the talent surrounding them. Obviously. It's not like Shaun Hill and Troy Smith were able to produce similar results to Smith. And it's not like the Colts fell apart when Manning left.

How many excuses can you make before you are finally willing to examine Alex Smith's play?

 

[Flyingiguana]

The point that you keep missing is that we don't need all the same upgrades if we have Brees. As you have repeatedly conceded, Smith needs very good if not pro bowl talent at every position to succeed. Brees doesn't need that.

With Brees, or with Manning for that matter, the OL looks better at pass blocking because these guys are better at reading the D and making the right adjustments. They get the ball out quickly and take very few sacks. The OL looks better at run blocking because defenses have to think pass first, giving us more room to run. The RBs look better because the D is more spread out and there is more room to run. The receivers look better because the QB is anticipating their breaks and hitting them in the hands and in stride. They don't have to get as open because the QB has pinpoint accuracy. We also threaten teams down the sidelines because our QB can make those throws consistently, opening the middle of the field to our larger, stronger receivers.

The point is that every single guy on offense looks better by upgrading the QB spot. Maybe we still need to add some pieces, but there's no reason we can't do that. And because of the stability at QB, rookies can transition more easily. It's a self-perpetuating phenomenon.

o and i never said smith needs pro bowl talent at every position to succeed. but we need actual talent on offense. we can't have a bunch of back ups running around on offense.

 

[shouldakepowens]

With the saints lowballing brees and manning bout to be released this offseason could get really interesting

 

[Flyingiguana]

Manning's OL was shit the past few years.

In 2006, Brees had Jamaal Brown, Jamar Nesbit, Jeff Faine, Jahri Evans as a rookie 4th round pick, and Jon Stinchcomb. Again, that's hardly an unbelievable group. It was a second-year OT who was decent, a journeyman, a retread, a later-round rookie, and a tolerable role player.

But you're right. The difference between Peyton Manning and Alex Smith is the talent surrounding them. Obviously. It's not like Shaun Hill and Troy Smith were able to produce similar results to Smith. And it's not like the Colts fell apart when Manning left.

How many excuses can you make before you are finally willing to examine Alex Smith's play?

i'm not claiming smith is better than manning or anyone else. get your head out of your ass.

u can't point fingers at anyone on offense without someone saying smith this or smith that. smith had by far the least to work with in the playoffs in the passing game. outside of vernon, nobody stepped up. it was either smith, gore or vernon gaining the yards. we didn't even use gore like we should have.

conservative play calling was also a huge issue. 2 mins left in the first half wtf happens? don't give me it's because of smith, he led two game winning drives against a team that has already won a super bowl.

back to the thread at hand, brees would cost an arm and a leg to pry away from the saints. we'd have to put up a huge contract that might have a cap hit of 25 mil. after signing rookies and filling roster spots, what is left? would the team be better with brees and minus the players it would cost us?

 

[shouldakepowens]

We don't know what Brees would make and if it is 20-25 why would we lose a bunch if guys

 

[clyde_carbon]

o and i never said smith needs pro bowl talent at every position to succeed. but we need actual talent on offense. we can't have a bunch of back ups running around on offense.

So we don't have actual talent on offense now? We must have had the greatest defense of all time to end up 13-3.