R.I.P. Jeremy Lamb's Pacers Career

[trojanfan12]

Yep. Detroit is doing it right now. Griffin is out for the year. Kennard is essentially out for the year. We bought out Reggie Jackson’s contract. We bought out Markeif Morris’s contract and we traded Drummond for two expiring contracts and a bag of used basketballs.

We are essentially trotting out a G-League team every night now.

Exactly and as long as the fans are good with it, understand what's going on and there is a clear plan with improvement every season...I don't see a problem.

Sure, you can have ownership that refuses to spend money to improve the roster/keep players and seem to be perpetually tanking. But the league can make rules to prevent that.

 

[buckalis]

Yes. I’m a Pistons fan and we’ve been selling off pieces to tank the season and give young guys a chance to see who is worth keeping.

Ive been tracking the how far down they are from a top 5 pick, but now that I see what the odds are — if they finish with one of the 4 worst records — they have just as good of a shot to get #1 as the other 3 teams.

Yeah, but what the Pistons are doing is not tanking with the exact meaning of the word... They are not losing in purpose, but have decided to promote their youth instead and accelerate things...

They wouldn't trade Drummond either, if he didn't ask out...

 

[trojanfan12]

They've reduced it considerably though and further actions are expected in order to completely eliminate it.

No, they haven't. They haven't reduced it much, if at all. The only way they will ever stop tanking (and it will never happen) is if they completely flip the draft on it's head the best team drafts first.

Go tell them... they will laugh on you!

They can laugh all they want. They can laugh all they want.

They can watch other teams winning titles every year while their trophy case sits empty too.

They are getting better and keep improving their ability to compete for each and every following season... That's what they were doing before, that's what they'll continue to do...

They are a team that keeps improving and still have lots of potential to progress further.

The goal, is to win titles. The Pacers are a good team, but they are not a contending team. They are currently the 6th seed in the East.

If they were fully healthy, they might be the 4 seed. Maybe even 3rd. But they aren't getting past the Bucks or Celtics and probably not the Sixers either.

So like I said, they are in NBA purgatory.

It's practically an "one shot" desperate attempt that has no future ahead... A real circus that didn't count on the Clippers reacting, or the Bucks been unbeatable this season, in their attempt to buy a championship instead of winning one and contending for many more in the future...

Wrong again. The Lakers got Lebron to win now. They got AD (who is only 26) for the future. Most seem to assume that Lebron will retire after this contract is up. If he does, the build around AD (that's where being a free agent destination helps.

As for the Clippers, the Lakers knew there was a chance that Kawhi would go there. But they had to take a chance anyway. Had Paul George not decided to request a trade, or the Thunder had refused to trade him, Kawhi would be a Laker.

However, considering that, for the first time in their history, the Clippers are serious contenders and the Lakers are also serious contenders...I'd say it worked out well for both teams, the city of Los Angeles and the NBA.

 

[trojanfan12]

Yeah, but what the Pistons are doing is not tanking with the exact meaning of the word... They are not losing in purpose, but have decided to promote their youth instead and accelerate things...

They wouldn't trade Drummond either, if he didn't ask out...

You have no clue how tanking works.

Players and coaches do not tank. Organizations/front offices tank.

The players are out there trying to win every single night. They are trying to stay in the league/get a better contract.

The coaches are coaching to win every single game. They want to keep their job or maybe get a better one.

Organizations/front offices tank by not putting together a roster that can compete in the NBA.

Everything that @TrustMeIamRight said is 100% how teams tank. They have Blake Griffin out for the season and they have been buying out and trading players who could make them more competitive.

End result, they have a roster that isn't talented enough to win very many games, even though the players are playing as hard as they can and the coach is coaching to win.

 

[Myles]

They are getting better and keep improving their ability to compete for each and every following season... That's what they were doing before, that's what they'll continue to do...

They are a team that keeps improving and still have lots of potential to progress further.

That's only somewhat true.
With a draft pick in the high teens, the potential to progress is not too much higher. That could tweak the team through free agency and improve some. There really isn't much chance of them being the favorites to win the East next season. You can bet they will make the playoffs though.
I don't think they should tank even though it is a valid strategy.

 

[trojanfan12]

That's only somewhat true.
With a draft pick in the high teens, the potential to progress is not too much higher. That could tweak the team through free agency and improve some. There really isn't much chance of them being the favorites to win the East next season. You can bet they will make the playoffs though.
I don't think they should tank even though it is a valid strategy.

To me, the bold is the key.

You're a Pacers fan. If you and most of your fanbase are against the idea of tanking, then the organization should not tank.

But, if a teams fanbase in on board with it, then I don't see a problem as long as there is improvement and a viable plan.

 

[GNG]

Brogdon hasn't helped the Pacers.

 

[Myles]

To me, the bold is the key.

You're a Pacers fan. If you and most of your fanbase are against the idea of tanking, then the organization should not tank.

But, if a teams fanbase in on board with it, then I don't see a problem as long as there is improvement and a viable plan.

I don't really pay too much attention to the NBA.
I wonder how Philly fans felt about the tanking. Right now they are probably appreciative, but what about while it was happening?

 

[buckalis]

Actually, that's not true. Tanking has been going on since there has been a draft. In the NBA, it actually works because of the difference 1 player can make.

Your Bucks are actually a perfect example of that. If you remove Giannis from the Bucks, you still have a nice team that is probably a 4-6 seed in the East. But with Giannis, the Bucks are contenders, the favorites to come out of the East and maybe the favorites to win the whole thing (although I think most still favor the Clippers).

Exactly! My Bucks are the perfect example that tanking is meaningless and can have very disastrous results for a team's future as a consequence...

It's good scouting and then an excellent developing program for young/raw players that results on super teams like the Bucks currently are and will continue to be for at least another decade...

The Bucks never tanked to get Giannis at No15 of the draft and then traded for a 2nd super star on Middleton who was a 2nd round pick in order to built a solid base for their future core...

They never tanked! They moved both Giannis and Middleton in the starting roster and started building around them, step by step, year after year and kept improving until they ended up a super team that is terror for any opponent in the NBA, but most important... it will continue to be even more of a terror for at least another decade!

Yes, the Bucks had the worst season in their history during the 13/14 season because they moved the rookies in their starting roster... but this wasn't tanking, it was done to accelerate things and all the high picks this resulted to (Parker, Maker) proved useless to have any impact on what now is the best team in the league...

Hence the logos: "Built to last" and "They talk, we work"... Instead, you try to buy a championship (good luck having to beat the Bucks in the finals if you ever make it there) and no one knows where you'll be in a couple of seasons from now...

 

[buckalis]

Brogdon hasn't helped the Pacers.

Why you say this? He has been very solid for them if they ended up better after losing both Collison and Bojan Bogdanovic and then playing without Victor until recently...

Clearly Brogdon, Olandipo & Sabonis is their solid core to be based upon and take another step forward for their future...

 

[GNG]

Why you say this? He has been very solid for them if they ended up better after losing both Collison and Bojan Bogdanovic...

Well, they aren't winning.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Yeah, but what the Pistons are doing is not tanking with the exact meaning of the word... They are not losing in purpose, but have decided to promote their youth instead and accelerate things...

They wouldn't trade Drummond either, if he didn't ask out...

Drummond didn’t ask out. You think he asked to be traded to the Cavs

Detroit wasn’t going to give him an extension, he wants a max contract and isn’t worth it in today’s NBA. He had a player option for $28 million next year and Detroit traded him to make sure he couldn’t opt in and team had him another year.

They bought out Jackson because he is someone who’d help win a game every now and then. Same with Morris.

What Detroit is doing is the VERY DEFINITION of tanking. The front office is getting rid of players who could help them now and win some games and putting guys in to get experience and get smacked around.

Do you honestly think tanking has to do with the players throwing games!?!? They are playing to keep jobs in the future. When teams tank — they get rid of the players who have talent, but are not pieces in the future for the team.

 

[msgkings322]

Yep. Detroit is doing it right now. Griffin is out for the year. Kennard is essentially out for the year. We bought out Reggie Jackson’s contract. We bought out Markeif Morris’s contract and we traded Drummond for two expiring contracts and a bag of used basketballs.

We are essentially trotting out a G-League team every night now.

Hold our beer - The Warriors

 

[buckalis]

Well, they aren't winning.

Yeah, but that's because Olandipo isn't yet to his previous standards and then he has to re-adapt himself on a highly altered roster that plays different...

I'm sure they'll be much better for the playoffs...

 

[buckalis]

What Detroit is doing is the VERY DEFINITION of tanking. The front office is getting rid of players who could help them now and win some games and putting guys in to get experience and get smacked around.

Do you honestly think tanking has to do with the players throwing games!?!? They are playing to keep jobs in the future. When teams tank — they get rid of the players who have talent, but are not pieces in the future for the team.

You seem to confuse tanking with losing although you try to win...

Definition of tanking is "losing in purpose"... not throwing rookies into "fire" so that you can accelerate their progress... The rookies still try to win, but just can't (yet).

 

[trojanfan12]

I don't really pay too much attention to the NBA.
I wonder how Philly fans felt about the tanking. Right now they are probably appreciative, but what about while it was happening?

From what I recall, Sixers fans, for the most part, were on board.

 

[shopson67]

This is going back to having teams tanking, which is what the league tries to avoid...(there are further actions expected from the NBA in order to eliminate tanking).

The Pacers have no reason to tank given the age and talent of their current roster and the future they have ahead of them if Olandipo gains back his pre-injury level...

You seem to think that every team has a "Lakers model" of "progressing", but I assure you, the vast majority of the other teams think of the "Lakers model" as being a circus they will do their best to avoid at all costs...
Lamb's injury is an unfortunate incident that can happen to any team, but it is still a "small problem" for the Pacers, given that his salary is only 10M and his role with the team is of the 7th (or perhaps later) player.

Heck, they didn't tank when Olandipo was heart and some "advise" them to tank because Lamb got heart?

Like it or not, tanking is the new model (or "the process") to rebuild, and many of these younger teams are being built that way (Sixers, Suns, etc). Teams that are perennially stuck in the high lottery or lowest playoff seeds rarely advance further unless they can draw top free agents (and most can't). Indiana isn't quite in that territory yet, as they have been hovering near a playoff home team recently. They were stuck in purgatory not too long ago, but were able to land Paul George at #10 in 2010 (imagine if they had kept Kawhi in 2011!) to jump-start their recent success trend. If Oladipo doesn't make it all the way back though, they could hit another wall.

 

[CitySushi]

Everything that @TrustMeIamRight said is 100% how teams tank. They have Blake Griffin out for the season and they have been buying out and trading players who could make them more competitive.

Rumor is the Warriors are already looking to buy Dragan Bender out of his 10 day contract because he's making them too competitive. Source is the same Ric Bucher uses routinely.

 

[trojanfan12]

Exactly! My Bucks are the perfect example that tanking is meaningless and can have very disastrous results for a team's future as a consequence...

It's good scouting and then an excellent developing program for young/raw players that results on super teams like the Bucks currently are and will continue to be for at least another decade...

The Bucks never tanked to get Giannis at No15 of the draft and then traded for a 2nd super star on Middleton who was a 2nd round pick in order to built a solid base for their future core...

They never tanked! They moved both Giannis and Middleton in the starting roster and started building around them, step by step, year after year and kept improving until they ended up a super team that is terror for any opponent in the NBA, but most important... it will continue to be even more of a terror for at least another decade!

Yes, the Bucks had the worst season in their history during the 13/14 season because they moved the rookies in their starting roster... but this wasn't tanking, it was done to accelerate things and all the high picks this resulted to (Parker, Maker) proved useless to have any impact on what now is the best team in the league...

Hence the logos: "Built to last" and "They talk, we work"... Instead, you try to buy a championship (good luck having to beat the Bucks in the finals if you ever make it there) and no one knows where you'll be in a couple of seasons from now...

Your first sentence is wrong and has nothing to do with whether or not tanking works. First of all, the point is that tanking, done correctly works. It's already been proven. Second, as usual, you missed the point being made re: the Bucks. The point was...how much difference 1 player makes in basketball. Without Giannis, the Bucks are likely a 4 seed at best. With him, they are contenders. Just adding that one special player made a huge difference.

Getting that special player is why teams tank.

 

[trojanfan12]

Rumor is the Warriors are already looking to buy Dragan Bender out of his 10 day contract because he's making them too competitive. Source is the same Ric Bucher uses routinely.

And they should. They have a perfect cover for tanking and getting a guy who can help extend their run when Steph and Klay return.