R.I.P. Jeremy Lamb's Pacers Career

[HurricaneDij39]

Torn ACL, meniscus, and a lateral femoral condylar fracture. Out for the season, and likely much longer.

The Pacers have just two wins in February, and Lamb has not been efficient since the start of 2020. Ever since his 30-point game against the Nuggets shortly after the new year, he has averaged a plus/minus rating of -2.5 and has consistently hovered in the lower 30's in three-point percentage.

While you never want anyone to lose minutes due to injury, he was due to ride some pine as it was with Oladipo working his way back into game shape.

Still, props to him for keeping the team afloat during 'Dipo's rehab process...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWNeNZEL4fw

 

[Myles]

Torn ACL, meniscus, and a lateral femoral condylar fracture. Out for the season, and likely much longer.

The Pacers have just two wins in February, and Lamb has not been efficient since the start of 2020. Ever since his 30-point game against the Nuggets shortly after the new year, he has averaged a plus/minus rating of -2.5 and has consistently hovered in the lower 30's in three-point percentage.

While you never want anyone to lose minutes due to injury, he was due to ride some pine as it was with Oladipo working his way back into game shape.

Still, props to him for keeping the team afloat during 'Dipo's rehab process...

The Pacers are still in a state of being good but not great for the foreseeable future. They are a small market that cannot attract big free agents. They are a well run organization that wins enough each year to not get the high draft picks. It's been 32 years since they have had a top 5 pick. I think that is the longest in the league. Heck, they have only had 2 top 10 draft picks in the last 31 years, both times the 10th pick.

 

[seattlefan75]

Sad but by the end of 2022 assuming he never plays again he will have a career earnings of a little over 61 million which he definitely reached his financial freedom for generations which is the ultimate goal for every athlete in every sport.

 

[HurricaneDij39]

The Pacers are still in a state of being good but not great for the foreseeable future. They are a small market that cannot attract big free agents. They are a well run organization that wins enough each year to not get the high draft picks. It's been 32 years since they have had a top 5 pick. I think that is the longest in the league. Heck, they have only had 2 top 10 draft picks in the last 31 years, both times the 10th pick.

Do you ever post anything else? You've pretty much copied and pasted this very same line on this forum the last three years straight, and it is kind of off-topic.

Even so, it will be proven going forward with the new lottery system in place that tanking won't work. Good management will, and 46 wins will still hold more benefits than 25.

 

[Myles]

Do you ever post anything else? You've pretty much copied and pasted this very same line on this forum the last three years straight, and it is kind of off-topic.

Even so, it will be proven going forward with the new lottery system in place that tanking won't work. Good management will, and 46 wins will still hold more benefits than 25.

Nope. The Pacers have proven that they can be good but not compete for a championship. It is what they are as a small market team. I've been a fan for decades and can admit that their ceiling is too low for a championship. They will finish with around 48 wins again. Have the 5th or 6th seed in the playoffs and compete in the first round. They may actually win the first round matchup. They will draft in the late teens again and be good next season. It's what they are and what they have been for a long time. I think the NBA draft is crap because it punishes a well run team like the Pacers.

Tanking will continue to work for teams. The new lottery rules don't do much.

 

[shopson67]

Even so, it will be proven going forward with the new lottery system in place that tanking won't work. Good management will, and 46 wins will still hold more benefits than 25.

The odds haven't changed THAT much.

 

[CitySushi]

The odds haven't changed THAT much.

Actually it's changed quite a lot. It's no longer as heavily weighted towards the top and the even the chances of teams towards the bottom have significantly increased.

Here are the two most recent draft lottery percentages:

2005-2018

1. 250 combinations, 25.0% chance of receiving the No. 1 pick
2. 199 combinations, 19.9% chance
3. 156 combinations, 15.6% chance
4. 119 combinations, 11.9% chance
5. 88 combinations, 8.8% chance
6. 63 combinations, 6.3% chance
7. 43 combinations, 4.3% chance
8. 28 combinations, 2.8% chance
9. 17 combinations, 1.7% chance
10. 11 combinations, 1.1% chance
11. 8 combinations, 0.8% chance
12. 7 combinations, 0.7% chance
13. 6 combinations, 0.6% chance
14. 5 combinations, 0.5% chance

2019-current

1. 140 combinations, 14.0% chance of receiving the No. 1 pick
2. 140 combinations, 14.0% chance
3. 140 combinations, 14.0% chance
4. 125 combinations, 12.5% chance
5. 105 combinations, 10.5% chance
6. 90 combinations, 9.0% chance
7. 75 combinations, 7.5% chance
8. 60 combinations, 6.0% chance
9. 45 combinations, 4.5% chance
10. 30 combinations, 3.0% chance
11. 20 combinations, 2.0% chance
12. 15 combinations, 1.5% chance
13. 10 combinations, 1.0% chance
14. 5 combinations, 0.5% chance

 

[shopson67]

Actually it's changed quite a lot. It's no longer as heavily weighted towards the top and the even the chances of teams towards the bottom have significantly increased.

Here are the two most recent draft lottery percentages:

2005-2018

1. 250 combinations, 25.0% chance of receiving the No. 1 pick
2. 199 combinations, 19.9% chance
3. 156 combinations, 15.6% chance
4. 119 combinations, 11.9% chance
5. 88 combinations, 8.8% chance
6. 63 combinations, 6.3% chance
7. 43 combinations, 4.3% chance
8. 28 combinations, 2.8% chance
9. 17 combinations, 1.7% chance
10. 11 combinations, 1.1% chance
11. 8 combinations, 0.8% chance
12. 7 combinations, 0.7% chance
13. 6 combinations, 0.6% chance
14. 5 combinations, 0.5% chance

2019-current

1. 140 combinations, 14.0% chance of receiving the No. 1 pick
2. 140 combinations, 14.0% chance
3. 140 combinations, 14.0% chance
4. 125 combinations, 12.5% chance
5. 105 combinations, 10.5% chance
6. 90 combinations, 9.0% chance
7. 75 combinations, 7.5% chance
8. 60 combinations, 6.0% chance
9. 45 combinations, 4.5% chance
10. 30 combinations, 3.0% chance
11. 20 combinations, 2.0% chance
12. 15 combinations, 1.5% chance
13. 10 combinations, 1.0% chance
14. 5 combinations, 0.5% chance

Really affects the bottom 2 though. Actually makes tanking easier, as you don't have to get to the absolute bottom.

 

[CitySushi]

Really affects the bottom 2 though. Actually makes tanking easier, as you don't have to get to the absolute bottom.

Not quite, there's a significant difference in the opportunities of the lower ranked teams to win the lottery as well. In the previous model the percentage difference between the 7th seed and the 1st seed to win was 4.3% chance versus 25%. That's nearly a 21% difference. In the current model the difference between the the 7th seed and the 1st seed is 7.5% to 14%. That's just a 6.5% difference.

The altering of the model makes is so that the value of tanking is much lower. The difference in odds between your top chance to get the #1 pick versus other teams has closed dramatically.

 

[buckalis]

2019-current

1. 140 combinations, 14.0% chance of receiving the No. 1 pick
2. 140 combinations, 14.0% chance
3. 140 combinations, 14.0% chance
4. 125 combinations, 12.5% chance
5. 105 combinations, 10.5% chance
6. 90 combinations, 9.0% chance
7. 75 combinations, 7.5% chance
8. 60 combinations, 6.0% chance
9. 45 combinations, 4.5% chance
10. 30 combinations, 3.0% chance
11. 20 combinations, 2.0% chance
12. 15 combinations, 1.5% chance
13. 10 combinations, 1.0% chance
14. 5 combinations, 0.5% chance

Don't know how the conversation came down to Indy tanking, but they won't!
In any case, this is close, but not exactly correct... This is how it is (after changing again for the '19 draft):

1. 14.0% 2. 14.0% 3. 14.0%
4. 12.5% 5. 10.5% 6. 9.0%
7. 6.0% 8. 6.0% 9. 6.0%
10. 3.0% 11. 2.0%
12. 1.0% 13. 1.0% 14. 1.0%

 

[trojanfan12]

I think the NBA draft is crap because it punishes a well run team like the Pacers.

I think the draft should be worst record drafts first and go in order from there.

The Pacers are part of the reason why. Because they are well run, they could tank for a season, maybe 2, get top flight rookie or 2 and develop and build around them.

 

[Myles]

I think the draft should be worst record drafts first and go in order from there.

The Pacers are part of the reason why. Because they are well run, they could tank for a season, maybe 2, get top flight rookie or 2 and develop and build around them.

The Pacers won't do that. They won't take. But having a draft system that encourages tanking is bad. Personally I think it should be determined like this:
The worst team gets 32 balls (chances), the best team gets 1.

 

[buckalis]

I think the draft should be worst record drafts first and go in order from there.

The Pacers are part of the reason why. Because they are well run, they could tank for a season, maybe 2, get top flight rookie or 2 and develop and build around them.

This is going back to having teams tanking, which is what the league tries to avoid...(there are further actions expected from the NBA in order to eliminate tanking).

The Pacers have no reason to tank given the age and talent of their current roster and the future they have ahead of them if Olandipo gains back his pre-injury level...

You seem to think that every team has a "Lakers model" of "progressing", but I assure you, the vast majority of the other teams think of the "Lakers model" as being a circus they will do their best to avoid at all costs...
Lamb's injury is an unfortunate incident that can happen to any team, but it is still a "small problem" for the Pacers, given that his salary is only 10M and his role with the team is of the 7th (or perhaps later) player.

Heck, they didn't tank when Olandipo was heart and some "advise" them to tank because Lamb got heart?

 

[trojanfan12]

The Pacers won't do that. They won't take. But having a draft system that encourages tanking is bad. Personally I think it should be determined like this:
The worst team gets 32 balls (chances), the best team gets 1.

That wouldn't be too bad.

The thing is, no matter how many different ways they try to set up the draft to discourage tanking...teams still tank. So the tweaks to the system aren't working anyway.

It's still better to tank and take your chances in the lottery than to get yourself stuck in NBA purgatory where you're never good enough to contend for a title, but never bad enough to be able to draft a true difference maker.

Top FA's typically don't want to stay in smaller markets. I know Reggie Miller stayed in Indy for his entire career. But how many Reggie Millers are there?

That leaves the draft for smaller market teams to try to put together a contender and hope they can be good enough to keep their best players from leaving after their first big contract or even after their rookie deal is up.

As for tanking, I'm not really a fan, but I think if it's done right, it can be a good thing, especially for smaller market teams.

 

[buckalis]

As for tanking, I'm not really a fan, but I think if it's done right, it can be a good thing, especially for smaller market teams.

Tanking destroys the future of the NBA and therefore is bad and has the worst of consequences for all teams.

If the NBA is to expand its appeal to the "consumers", it has to increase competitiveness and therefore become even more interesting and exciting.

The recent actions taken with the lottery have indeed improved things, but more is needed to be done and Adam Silver's crew seems to be working on it.

 

[trojanfan12]

This is going back to having teams tanking, which is what the league tries to avoid...(there are further actions expected from the NBA in order to eliminate tanking).

It doesn't matter how they tweak the draft, teams are still tanking.

The Pacers have no reason to tank given the age and talent of their current roster and the future they have ahead of them if Olandipo gains back his pre-injury level...

Yes, they do have a reason to tank. The Pacers are the poster child for reasons to tank.

They are a very well run organization. But they are stuck in NBA purgatory. They are always good enough to make the playoffs or get very close, but never good enough to actually contend for a title. Even if they get completely healthy and Oladipo returns to pre-injury form, they will still be in the same situation.

You seem to think that every team has a "Lakers model" of "progressing", but I assure you, the vast majority of the other teams think of the "Lakers model" as being a circus they will do their best to avoid at all costs...

The "Lakers model" worked for the Lakers. They were bad enough that they were able to get high enough draft picks to accumulate enough young talent that they were left with a choice...they could "stay the course" and try to develop the young players into a contender, or they could try to use those assets to acquire top level players.

They were able to sign Lebron, use those assets to add AD to the team and they are now contenders.

Not all markets can necessarily use that same "model" because not all markets are FA destinations. But all markets can use a version of that model.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Really affects the bottom 2 though. Actually makes tanking easier, as you don't have to get to the absolute bottom.

Yes. I’m a Pistons fan and we’ve been selling off pieces to tank the season and give young guys a chance to see who is worth keeping.

Ive been tracking the how far down they are from a top 5 pick, but now that I see what the odds are — if they finish with one of the 4 worst records — they have just as good of a shot to get #1 as the other 3 teams.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

It doesn't matter how they tweak the draft, teams are still tanking.

Yep. Detroit is doing it right now. Griffin is out for the year. Kennard is essentially out for the year. We bought out Reggie Jackson’s contract. We bought out Markeif Morris’s contract and we traded Drummond for two expiring contracts and a bag of used basketballs.

We are essentially trotting out a G-League team every night now.

 

[trojanfan12]

Tanking destroys the future of the NBA and therefore is bad and has the worst of consequences for all teams.

Actually, that's not true. Tanking has been going on since there has been a draft. In the NBA, it actually works because of the difference 1 player can make.

Your Bucks are actually a perfect example of that. If you remove Giannis from the Bucks, you still have a nice team that is probably a 4-6 seed in the East. But with Giannis, the Bucks are contenders, the favorites to come out of the East and maybe the favorites to win the whole thing (although I think most still favor the Clippers).

If the NBA is to expand its appeal to the "consumers", it has to increase competitiveness and therefore become even more interesting and exciting.

Again, this isn't true. The NBA is the 2nd most popular sports league in the United States after the NFL and basketball is only 2nd to soccer in worldwide popularity. The NBA has been the driving force behind all of that.

Additionally, more and more consumers (fans) are actually starting to be okay with, if not embracing, the idea of tanking for a couple of seasons to get the players they need to become a contender.

Where it becomes a problem is when teams appear to be tanking season after season and don't appear to have a plan.

 

[buckalis]

It doesn't matter how they tweak the draft, teams are still tanking.

They've reduced it considerably though and further actions are expected in order to completely eliminate it.

Yes, they do have a reason to tank. The Pacers are the poster child for reasons to tank.

Go tell them... they will laugh on you!

They are a very well run organization. But they are stuck in NBA purgatory. They are always good enough to make the playoffs or get very close, but never good enough to actually contend for a title. Even if they get completely healthy and Oladipo returns to pre-injury form, they will still be in the same situation.

They are getting better and keep improving their ability to compete for each and every following season... That's what they were doing before, that's what they'll continue to do...

They are a team that keeps improving and still have lots of potential to progress further.

The "Lakers model" worked for the Lakers. They were bad enough that they were able to get high enough draft picks to accumulate enough young talent that they were left with a choice...they could "stay the course" and try to develop the young players into a contender, or they could try to use those assets to acquire top level players.

They were able to sign Lebron, use those assets to add AD to the team and they are now contenders.

Not all markets can necessarily use that same "model" because not all markets are FA destinations. But all markets can use a version of that model.

It's practically an "one shot" desperate attempt that has no future ahead... A real circus that didn't count on the Clippers reacting, or the Bucks been unbeatable this season, in their attempt to buy a championship instead of winning one and contending for many more in the future...