Questions regarding OUR DEFENSE and our inability to finish (some) games

[Logicallylethal]

We all love this defense and from a historical context...there's no question this is one of the best defenses of all time.


However, no defense is without flaw and there may be a chink in this defense's armor...and that's our inability to finish games when we need our defense to make one stop.


2012

Week 8 2012 - Seahawks vs Lions (Loss)
- Russell drives the team 12 plays 87 yards to take the lead (24-21) with 5:27 left. One stop from the defense and it's game over. Lions instead drive 16 plays for 80 yards and win the game with almost no time left.

Week 12 2012 - Seahawks vs Dolphins (Loss)
- Neon Leon takes it back 98 yards to give the Hawks a 21-14 lead with 8 minutes left. Defense gives up a 80 yard drive and 65 yard drive for a TD and FG to lose the game.

Week 13 2012 - Seahawks vs Bears (Win)
- Russell pulls off an Elway like drive taking the Seahawks 12 plays 97 yards to score the go ahead touchdown to Golden Tate with 24 seconds left. Defense then inexplicably gives up the 3 and allows Chicago to tie the game. Seahawks end up winning because Russell bails them out AGAIN.

NFC Div Playoff 2012 - Seahawks vs Falcons (Loss)
- 21 points in the 4th quarter capped off by a 61 yard touchdown drive to give the Hawks a 28-27 lead with 31 seconds left. We all know what happens after that. All we needed was ONE stop and the defense gives it up to Ryan and the Falcons.



2014

Week 2 2014 - Seahawks vs Broncos (Win)
- 17-3 lead given up in the 4th on a last minute Peyton Manning drive bailed out yet again by Russell in OT

Week 6 2014- Seahawks vs Cowboys (Loss)
- We go up 23-20 with 8 minutes left and then defense gives up a touchdown and a fg to end the game.

NFC Championship 2015 - Seahawks vs Packers (Win)
- Seahawks pull off the miraculous comeback. The Clink is rockin (probably the loudest the Clink has ever been) and the defense just needs ONE stop. Somehow Aaron Rodgers drives and ties the game up...luckily Russell bails us out AGAIN in OT.

Superbowl 49 - Seahawks vs Patriots (Loss)
- Up 10 in the 4th quarter...Seahawks defense allows two long TD drives including Tom Brady to go 8-8 on his final drive. Russell nearly bails out the defense again but we all know what happens.



Do you guys see a trend? 2012 and 2014? The two years we don't hoist the Lombardi trophies are the two years our defense struggles or at least show some signs of not being able to finish games. What do you guys think it is? Is it fatigue? Does our defense get worn down or do great quarterbacks just step up late in games when it matters most?

Also...Russell is the fricking man. How many game winning drives has he had only to be spoiled by the defense. How many times have the defense let us down only to be bailed out by Russell!? This guy has ice in his veins and he lives for these moments. Best quarterback in franchise history and at this point I don't think there is any debate.

 

[SJ76]

You had some injuries. But after watching Many NFC West games the past few years, you all were missing tackles on the outside that you usually punish WRs for even trying. Amendola and Edleman are quick little shits, but the Seattle D I have seen for years usually punishes WRs on those short passes to the outside. Gronk is a tough match up for anyone.

But your D still held pretty nice against New England. Pats went after your nickel CB after Lane went down. Irvin went down.

All you had to do was give it to Beast mode for 2 runs, if you lose.. you lose. But your D had some missing pieces to it and other injuries on the field as well.

 

[Cave_Johnson]

You had some injuries. But after watching Many NFC West games the past few years, you all were missing tackles on the outside that you usually punish WRs for even trying. Amendola and Edleman are quick little shits, but the Seattle D I have seen for years usually punishes WRs on those short passes to the outside. Gronk is a tough match up for anyone.

But your D still held pretty nice against New England. Pats went after your nickel CB after Lane went down. Irvin went down.

All you had to do was give it to Beast mode for 2 runs, if you lose.. you lose. But your D had some missing pieces to it and other injuries on the field as well.

Edelman really burned Simon a few times including one 20+ catch and run on third and 5 or something.

But to address the OP, I really think you have to save some blame for the offense in the Super Bowl. They were bad in the first and the fourth quarter as well until that last drive and we all know the last drive didn't exactly end well either. The defense was really hurt with Lane and Avril going out. Totally different outcome if they play the whole game, but that's how it goes sometimes.

 

[Logicallylethal]

Edelman really burned Simon a few times including one 20+ catch and run on third and 5 or something.

But to address the OP, I really think you have to save some blame for the offense in the Super Bowl. They were bad in the first and the fourth quarter as well until that last drive and we all know the last drive didn't exactly end well either. The defense was really hurt with Lane and Avril going out. Totally different outcome if they play the whole game, but that's how it goes sometimes.

Totally agree on the offense deserving some blame too. The one play that keeps replaying in my mind is 3rd and 2 when Russell drops one right in Kearse's bread basket.

Kearse pulls that down and it's game.

 

[gohusk]

Avril and Lane got taken out of the game and Thomas' injury was a lot worse than they were letting on. The second Lane was out of the game they started picking on Simon because he sucks. It was easy for anybody to see that from the film on him.

 

[Cave_Johnson]

Totally agree on the offense deserving some blame too. The one play that keeps replaying in my mind is 3rd and 2 when Russell drops one right in Kearse's bread basket.

Kearse pulls that down and it's game.

Yup. That's the other key play I would point to other than the obvious int at the end.

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

Defense was fine.

Sherman/Thomas, playing injured. Mebane/Hill/McDonald, all out for the game. Avril/Lane, left during the game. Wagner was out a good chunk of the season.

2013 the defense basically was healthy the entire time.


The biggest issue of the SBOWL was Avril going down (Lane was big but Avril/pressure on Brady is much bigger) and our offense going 3 and out twice giving NE the ball on the 32/36 in the 4th quarter.

 

[WizardHawk]

2 things here:
After the game it was announced that 4 of your SB starting defensive players would need off season SURGERY. These guys weren't just tired or banged up. Kam needs work on his knee, Sherman needs Tommy John, Earl needs work on his shoulder, and Lane's arm is a mess (he might not be back for fall it's so bad). When 3/4 of the LOB that started that game need surgery, did the real LOB play in that game?

Only reason they lost that game was losing Lane early (Simon was dog shit out there and you know it) and more importantly, Avril at the start of the first of NE's 2 scoring drives in the 4th. Lost all pressure on Brady and he made them pay.

When you look at the names on IR on top of it, it's freaking incredible they were in this game and that close to winning anyway. Not having Mebain was huge, or should have been. Losing Hill?

Just get your D back to full health and you don't need to change a thing for next year. Just add more depth in the later rounds of the draft if you can. That's it. Well assuming you can keep Maxwell which you might not.

 

[blstoker]

Sherman/Thomas, playing injured. Mebane/Hill/McDonald, all out for the game. Avril/Lane, left during the game. Wagner was out a good chunk of the season.

I've seen people point to McDonald not being there all season long, people do realize he plays for the Buccaneers, now?

As for Simon, he's taking a lot of crap right now, most of which shouldn't be on him. Simon has a lot of the same limitations as Browner, good vertical and straight line, but his lateral movement is suspect. Edelman burned him several times running the exact same route, because Simon does not have the ability to adjust side to side that quickly. We never even attempted to adjust to it. Simon is not a nickel corner, and to make him one was bound to kill us, and it did. To not have Marcus Burley even active for the game was a mistake - especially when 3/4 of your starting DBs were hurt significantly, and all 3 remaining CBs had missed time due to injury. It was a failure of the coaching staff to not have the personnel available to match what the NE offense wants to do, or to not adjusting to it using what personnel you do have.

Also, don't act like 2013's defense didn't have lapses just like the ones pointed out earlier in the thread. They gave up 34 points to the Colts, including 11 in the 4th after entering the quarter with the lead. The gave up a game winning field goal to the 49ers after allowing them to drive 76 yards on 10 plays in nearly 6 minutes (after Seattle took the lead). After scoring the go ahead TD with 7:32 left, the defense allowed the Cardinals to drive 80 yards on 10 plays for the winning TD. So, with a record of 42-14, 11 of those losses included a defensive collapse at the end - which just goes to show that no matter how good a defense is, they can't always be perfect.

It was a great all around game by both teams, I have no regrets about the Seahawks performance, and look forward to them using this loss to motivate themselves to do even better next year.

 

[octagondd]

Regarding Simon, I was frustrated that he was not put on the outside. That is his strength and BMax is good in the slot. Add that to the clear game plan to run crossing routes with Edelman and it just makes sense to put Max in the slot. Brady was not going to try deep down the sideline too much.

Regarding the defense in general, Pass rush. We love Bennett and all he does, but when he and Avril were on one side and either Clem or Irvin on the other side, it created havoc for QBs. We clearly did not have the same pass rush this season as well as Bennett and Avril getting more snaps and being less fresh.

 

[SonnyCID]

Shit happens. Sometimes the other team just steps up too. But more times than not, Seattle gets the KO.

The examples you used are actually pleasing (except for the last one ). 8 times in 3 years, 3 of which they won. I'd say they're batting as well or better than anyone else in these particular circumstances.

 

[JMR]

I say we are 1 yard away from not having this thread existing, so that probably answers the question.


It's Brady and Rodgers... those guys are Brady and Rodgers for good reason. The D kept us in the NFCC long enough to give our QB a chance to rally and drop bombs. The D gave it everything they had in the SB despite key injuries, and you just can't stop Brady every time but they stopped him enough to give the O a chance to win it. It's a totally different narrative on these boards and on sports radio/TV with 1 more yard of offense.

 

[gohusk]

I say we are 1 yard away from not having this thread existing, so that probably answers the question.


It's Brady and Rodgers... those guys are Brady and Rodgers for good reason. The D kept us in the NFCC long enough to give our QB a chance to rally and drop bombs. The D gave it everything they had in the SB despite key injuries, and you just can't stop Brady every time but they stopped him enough to give the O a chance to win it. It's a totally different narrative on these boards and on sports radio/TV with 1 more yard of offense.

The defense was already banged up when the game started and Brady wasn't able to do anything until Avril went out and Simon entered the game. Simon's #4 on the depth chart and he played like it. Maybe next year we can get through an entire season without key guys being knocked out for extended periods of time.

 

[Logicallylethal]

Also, don't act like 2013's defense didn't have lapses just like the ones pointed out earlier in the thread. They gave up 34 points to the Colts, including 11 in the 4th after entering the quarter with the lead. The gave up a game winning field goal to the 49ers after allowing them to drive 76 yards on 10 plays in nearly 6 minutes (after Seattle took the lead). After scoring the go ahead TD with 7:32 left, the defense allowed the Cardinals to drive 80 yards on 10 plays for the winning TD. So, with a record of 42-14, 11 of those losses included a defensive collapse at the end - which just goes to show that no matter how good a defense is, they can't always be perfect.

It was a great all around game by both teams, I have no regrets about the Seahawks performance, and look forward to them using this loss to motivate themselves to do even better next year.

Ah totally forgot about the Cards game in 2013. The 49er game I didn't include, because I felt like that was a game we all shrugged off and brushed off quickly since it wasn't one we "needed" to win. The Colts game I was on the fence about, because we allowed the long TD drive early on in the 4th.

But yes you're right no matter how good/great the defense is, it can't always be perfect.


Hugh Millen pointed out an interesting stat addressing the same thing on KJR yesterday. He pointed out that in last year's Super Bowl guys like Bennett, Avril, etc. only had 40 some reps during Super Bowl 48. In this year's Super Bowl Bennett played 60 +, Irvin played 60 +, and Avril ended up with only 35 but would have been in the 50-60 range had he not gotten injured.

I think what made our defense so great in 2013 was because our guys were fresh. We were so deep. Our defensive rotations kept our guys fresh and allowed them to be ferocious for all 4 quarters.

I'm excited to get Mebane and Hill back. I'm especially excited to see Hill continue to grow.