• Have something to say? Register Now! and be posting in minutes!

QB options for next year

jerseyhawksfan79

Well-Known Member
16,249
5,262
533
Joined
Apr 23, 2013
Hoopla Cash
$ 29,773.33
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
The failure was not moving up in the draft, earlier I said I couldn't recommend giving up 2 firsts, 2 seconds and a WR for the #1 pick like the Panthers did. I want to correct that statement because the Seahawks should of been willing to do that. Now that likely won't be adequate for the #1( this draft) considering their draft position this year and yes I would of wanted Levi over Witherspoon ( obviously would not of been necessary as they could of taken Levi with their second first) but I'd rather they the Seahawks would of went for the home run with the #1 overall and pray they don't take the shorty.
Seattle could have jumped the Colts to snag Richardson. Yes he had a lot of red flags but before he got hurt he looked pretty good.
 

Anointed One

Gone Country!
22,720
6,750
533
Joined
Aug 29, 2014
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,323.79
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
Seattle could have jumped the Colts to snag Richardson. Yes he had a lot of red flags but before he got hurt he looked pretty good.
But nobody wants to say how much they were willing to give up to have done so... Sounds good but how much did it sound good on paper?

I personally didn't want him because I don't like running QB's too much... Ironically, he got knocked out for the season while running the ball...
 

HaroldSeattle

Administrator
Staff member
Admin
57,936
23,280
1,033
Joined
Sep 1, 2011
Location
Twin Peaks
Hoopla Cash
$ 867.76
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
Seattle could have jumped the Colts to snag Richardson. Yes he had a lot of red flags but before he got hurt he looked pretty good.
Yes he did look good before getting injured. He only had one full season as starter in college and if he had stayed in college his stats would of become much better IMO just like lots of college QBs did as second year starters vs their first year.
 

jerseyhawksfan79

Well-Known Member
16,249
5,262
533
Joined
Apr 23, 2013
Hoopla Cash
$ 29,773.33
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
But nobody wants to say how much they were willing to give up to have done so... Sounds good but how much did it sound good on paper?
Ballpark guess cause I don't know but lets say swap positions, a 3rd plus next years 1st?
moving up to top spot would have costed 2 firsts, a second and probably a third or fourth.
 

jerseyhawksfan79

Well-Known Member
16,249
5,262
533
Joined
Apr 23, 2013
Hoopla Cash
$ 29,773.33
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
Yes he did look good before getting injured. He only had one full season as starter in college and if he had stayed in college his stats would of become much better IMO just like lots of college QBs did as second year starters vs their first year.
Agreed but that Colts coaching staff really turned him around. I think Pete's staff could have done the same.
 

flyerhawk

Well-Known Member
101,790
37,368
1,033
Joined
Aug 18, 2014
Location
Hoboken
Hoopla Cash
$ 500.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
The failure was not moving up in the draft, earlier I said I couldn't recommend giving up 2 firsts, 2 seconds and a WR for the #1 pick like the Panthers did. I want to correct that statement because the Seahawks should of been willing to do that. Now that likely won't be adequate for the #1( this draft) considering their draft position this year and yes I would of wanted Levi over Witherspoon ( obviously would not of been necessary as they could of taken Levi with their second first) but I'd rather they the Seahawks would of went for the home run with the #1 overall and pray they don't take the shorty.

I think the Panthers were completely insane to make that trade. Cost their head coach his job.

Look at the history of trading up to grab a QB. The teams that gave up a lot wound up paying a huge price in almost every case.

Look at the past.

2021 - Niners trade #12, #29, #102, and a 2023 1st to move up and get Trey Lantz. In less than 2 years he was off the team and a backup for a different team.

2021 - Bears move up to #11 and give up #20, #164, 2023 1st and and 4th for Justin Fields.

2018 - Jets move up 3 spots and give up #6, #37, #49, and 2019 2nd to get Sam Darnold

2018 - Bills trade up #12, #53 and #56 to move up 5 spots and grab Josh Allen

And the list goes on. Trubisky, Goff, Wentz, RGIII, Blaine Gabbert were all drafted after a team moved up fro tehm.

The Bills trade and the Mahomes trades worked out but they also weren't terribly punitive. But it's a pretty huge risk especially when you start talking about the trade capital involved into getting into the top 5.

If you are going to do it, you best be damned sure you hit it. The Panthers are completely screwed and are going to watch the Bears draft potential franchise QB next year while also getting 2 other 2nd round picks.
 

flyerhawk

Well-Known Member
101,790
37,368
1,033
Joined
Aug 18, 2014
Location
Hoboken
Hoopla Cash
$ 500.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
I think he's on the list but Pete won't say it. He has eyeballs like everyone else and seen his struggles.

He struggles when the OL struggles. He's not good enough to overcome the OL struggling.
 

JMR

Go Army!
7,081
2,055
173
Joined
Dec 28, 2014
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
Yes looking at the contract guaranteed dates, the Seahawks will half to decide on Geno in February, thus not able to use the post June 1st date to spread the dead money over two seasons. So if they cut him they save 13 million and eat 17 million and will have to pay for who ever is the starting QB. A rookie would obviously be cheap, but all in all cutting Geno doesn't create as much cap space as one would hope for. Also the Seahawks won't know how many or which QBs will be on the board when the Seahawks pick, before they have to decide Geno's future with the team in February.
The Hawks have 2 basic cap-cost choices: 1) keep Geno on the team and pay $31M or 2) remove Geno from the team by 2/14/24 and pay $17M. So they need to determine if an alternative starting QB is worth $14M less in cap space (minus whatever that QB is going to cost) than Geno.
 

flyerhawk

Well-Known Member
101,790
37,368
1,033
Joined
Aug 18, 2014
Location
Hoboken
Hoopla Cash
$ 500.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
Seattle could have jumped the Colts to snag Richardson. Yes he had a lot of red flags but before he got hurt he looked pretty good.

Willing to give up both 1sts for him? He looked good running the ball. Pretty pedestrian throwing it.
 

HaroldSeattle

Administrator
Staff member
Admin
57,936
23,280
1,033
Joined
Sep 1, 2011
Location
Twin Peaks
Hoopla Cash
$ 867.76
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
I think the Panthers were completely insane to make that trade. Cost their head coach his job.

Look at the history of trading up to grab a QB. The teams that gave up a lot wound up paying a huge price in almost every case.

Look at the past.

2021 - Niners trade #12, #29, #102, and a 2023 1st to move up and get Trey Lantz. In less than 2 years he was off the team and a backup for a different team.

2021 - Bears move up to #11 and give up #20, #164, 2023 1st and and 4th for Justin Fields.

2018 - Jets move up 3 spots and give up #6, #37, #49, and 2019 2nd to get Sam Darnold

2018 - Bills trade up #12, #53 and #56 to move up 5 spots and grab Josh Allen

And the list goes on. Trubisky, Goff, Wentz, RGIII, Blaine Gabbert were all drafted after a team moved up fro tehm.

The Bills trade and the Mahomes trades worked out but they also weren't terribly punitive. But it's a pretty huge risk especially when you start talking about the trade capital involved into getting into the top 5.

If you are going to do it, you best be damned sure you hit it. The Panthers are completely screwed and are going to watch the Bears draft potential franchise QB next year while also getting 2 other 2nd round picks.
Does not matter! If the 49ers had not found Purdy they would of continued taking swings to find a franchise QB, Bears have continued seeking a franchise QB, Jets continue looking. It makes no sense not to try for fear of failing because not trying is failing and as we discussed the odds favor taking a top prospect at QB over finding a Purdy or Tom Brady or RW in the draft and it's not even worth debating. So as far as I'm concerned your making a fallacious argument.
 

flyerhawk

Well-Known Member
101,790
37,368
1,033
Joined
Aug 18, 2014
Location
Hoboken
Hoopla Cash
$ 500.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
Does not matter! If the 49ers had not found Purdy they would of continued taking swings to find a franchise QB, Bears have continued seeking a franchise QB, Jets continue looking. It makes no sense not to try for fear of failing because not trying is failing and as we discussed the odds favor taking a top prospect at QB over finding a Purdy or Tom Brady or RW in the draft and it's not even worth debating. So as far as I'm concerned your making a fallacious argument.

So there is not trade that you would balk at in order to get Williams? 3 1sts, 3 2nds and 2 3rds to move up from 25 to No. 2?

This is the problem. You are so blinded by desire to get the next Mahomes, that you are ignoring the opportunity costs.

The Bears and Jets are probably not great arguments for the "All in for a QB" strategy.

Weird that you decide to just throw your hands up when I provide some historical context.
 

HaroldSeattle

Administrator
Staff member
Admin
57,936
23,280
1,033
Joined
Sep 1, 2011
Location
Twin Peaks
Hoopla Cash
$ 867.76
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
So there is not trade that you would balk at in order to get Williams? 3 1sts, 3 2nds and 2 3rds to move up from 25 to No. 2?

This is the problem. You are so blinded by desire to get the next Mahomes, that you are ignoring the opportunity costs.

The Bears and Jets are probably not great arguments for the "All in for a QB" strategy.

Weird that you decide to just throw your hands up when I provide some historical context.
So now you want to put out some ridiculous fictional what if. My stance is simply this, the opportunity was ideal for taking a shot at a top prospect at QB last draft and Pete in his cockiness felt he could make due with Geno. He didn't attempt to land one of the top prospects at QB. I could understand if the Seahawks made a good faith effort and were rebuffed at every turn, but I'm convinced that Pete didn't try and he like others here thought a different position would make a bigger difference at least in the short term and IMO that was just another bad personnel decision by Pete. Pete weakness is his short sightedness with personnel. Tossing away premium picks for a hamburger today ( to quote Wimpy for those old enough to recognize it), thinking he didn't need a top QB was the height of over estimating his own abilities to do more with less at QB.
 

Anointed One

Gone Country!
22,720
6,750
533
Joined
Aug 29, 2014
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,323.79
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
So now you want to put out some ridiculous fictional what if. My stance is simply this, the opportunity was ideal for taking a shot at a top prospect at QB last draft and Pete in his cockiness felt he could make due with Geno. He didn't attempt to land one of the top prospects at QB. I could understand if the Seahawks made a good faith effort and were rebuffed at every turn, but I'm convinced that Pete didn't try and he like others here thought a different position would make a bigger difference at least in the short term and IMO that was just another bad personnel decision by Pete. Pete weakness is his short sightedness with personnel. Tossing away premium picks for a hamburger today ( to quote Wimpy for those old enough to recognize it), thinking he didn't need a top QB was the height of over estimating his own abilities to do more with less at QB.

That made me chuckle... :D
 

flyerhawk

Well-Known Member
101,790
37,368
1,033
Joined
Aug 18, 2014
Location
Hoboken
Hoopla Cash
$ 500.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
So now you want to put out some ridiculous fictional what if. My stance is simply this, the opportunity was ideal for taking a shot at a top prospect at QB last draft and Pete in his cockiness felt he could make due with Geno. He didn't attempt to land one of the top prospects at QB. I could understand if the Seahawks made a good faith effort and were rebuffed at every turn, but I'm convinced that Pete didn't try and he like others here thought a different position would make a bigger difference at least in the short term and IMO that was just another bad personnel decision by Pete. Pete weakness is his short sightedness with personnel. Tossing away premium picks for a hamburger today ( to quote Wimpy for those old enough to recognize it), thinking he didn't need a top QB was the height of over estimating his own abilities to do more with less at QB.

You like to make these arguments in the abstract. I'm simply trying to understand what you are actually willing to do. We ALL want a franchise QB. I said last spring that I would be fine with them drafting a QB at 5 if they were high on one. But that doesn't mean I want us to give up the farm to do it. 2 1st, 2 2nds and Metcalf would have been a terrible trade for us last year. Especially if they went chalk and took Young.

From all the reports in the offseason, Pete was enamored with Richardson. Maybe that was a smoke screen. Maybe he was seriously interested in drafting him. I dunno. But I do know that Pete and John are NOT going to draft a QB just to draft a QB.

Pete is not going draft to build for the future. He's always been a win now QB but that is even MORE true now. That's what you get when you have a 72 year old head coach. He's building a team to compete and win now.

Which is why he is unlikely to burn a high draft pick on a QB this offseason either. It's possible of course but unlikely.
 

HaroldSeattle

Administrator
Staff member
Admin
57,936
23,280
1,033
Joined
Sep 1, 2011
Location
Twin Peaks
Hoopla Cash
$ 867.76
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
You like to make these arguments in the abstract. I'm simply trying to understand what you are actually willing to do
Nothing abstract about my stance. I simply felt that the Seahawks needed to make every effort to land which ever prospect at QB they felt best fit the bill. I don't feel the effort was made and I'd bet most would agree with me. If you don't ....well fine, then we'll agree to disagree. I'm not going to play some game where you try to get me to say that some fictional wild trade proposal you have thrown out would be a good idea. I wanted to see the effort made and I'm pretty sure Pete didn't try, this time around I hope he see's the light. Seahawks are not going to be Super Bowl contender with a mediocre QB be it Geno or Lock or a slew of other candidates at QB need to take some swings at a prospect that has the potential, not even against multiple QBs taken next draft because until they land a good QB the Seahawks are just spinning their wheels.
 

Dr. Strangelove

Well-Known Member
10,132
5,706
533
Joined
Jun 5, 2016
Location
Moncton, New Brunswick
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,053.75
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
I think last year would have been a bad draft to trade up for a QB and I said that at the time. There were no real bonafide guys out there at the time. The jury is of course still out on them but Stroud turned out to be the only one so far that was worth a high pick. This year, ehhh, maybe worth taking a shot if someone really wows them at the combine and in the interviews but even Williams doesn't truly look like all that and then some. To get one of the top guys will be a high cost, imo because a lot of teams are looking for a QB.
 

Anointed One

Gone Country!
22,720
6,750
533
Joined
Aug 29, 2014
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,323.79
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
If Quinn Ewers declares for the draft, he would be a guy I'd consider and have him learn for a year behind a veteran QB... I like his upside and potential as a NFL QB...
 

flyerhawk

Well-Known Member
101,790
37,368
1,033
Joined
Aug 18, 2014
Location
Hoboken
Hoopla Cash
$ 500.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
Nothing abstract about my stance. I simply felt that the Seahawks needed to make every effort to land which ever prospect at QB they felt best fit the bill. I don't feel the effort was made and I'd bet most would agree with me. If you don't ....well fine, then we'll agree to disagree. I'm not going to play some game where you try to get me to say that some fictional wild trade proposal you have thrown out would be a good idea. I wanted to see the effort made and I'm pretty sure Pete didn't try, this time around I hope he see's the light. Seahawks are not going to be Super Bowl contender with a mediocre QB be it Geno or Lock or a slew of other candidates at QB need to take some swings at a prospect that has the potential, not even against multiple QBs taken next draft because until they land a good QB the Seahawks are just spinning their wheels.

I'm simply trying to quantify what you would be willing to do. You've already said that you wished they traded the #5, another 1st, 2 2nds and Metcalf to get the No. 1 pick. I find that an unacceptable amount to give up ESPECIALLY given that none of the QBs were considered top tier talents.

We aren't likely to win a Super Bowl with Geno or Lock. No question about that. We are also not going to win a Super Bowl without talent around the roster.
 

flyerhawk

Well-Known Member
101,790
37,368
1,033
Joined
Aug 18, 2014
Location
Hoboken
Hoopla Cash
$ 500.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
If Quinn Ewers declares for the draft, he would be a guy I'd consider and have him learn for a year behind a veteran QB... I like his upside and potential as a NFL QB...

Interesting choice for him, given Arch is waiting in the wings.
 

HaroldSeattle

Administrator
Staff member
Admin
57,936
23,280
1,033
Joined
Sep 1, 2011
Location
Twin Peaks
Hoopla Cash
$ 867.76
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
I'm simply trying to quantify what you would be willing to do. You've already said that you wished they traded the #5, another 1st, 2 2nds and Metcalf to get the No. 1 pick. I find that an unacceptable amount to give up ESPECIALLY given that none of the QBs were considered top tier talents.
Weren't considered top tier talents? By whom? Not the NFL teams who drafted them at the top of the draft. I guess your talking about pundits and media figures who have way to much influence with the public perception of who is good and who isn't. It's almost laughable how they puff up this player or that player only to be oh so wrong.
 
Top