Prime Jordan vs Prime Kobe

[lakersrule]

Interesting article on the topic of scoring being down due to defense...

Thibs is the coach who should get the most credit for Boston's '08 title. His defensive schemes gave Lebron and Kobe fits. One of the best defensive teams I've seen.

 

[HuskerCradle2Grave]

Do you consider Ray Allen elite? Dirk? Who is an elite jump shooter in your opinion?

 

[rmilia1]

Thanks for giving me something to work with. Be right back. By the way, you never answered. What is an elite mid range %?

Well I guess that depends on where the majority of your shots from 10+ are coming from. If ( like MJ ) you dont shoot as many 3's as you do shots from 10-18 feet then I think 44+ is good but not great. If you are more prone to shoot deeper shots like Kobe or Reggie Miller then that number is different. MJ was unique in that he really didnt shoot many 3's for a long portion of his career. 44% seems like a good number so Ill go with that BUT you didnt say he was a "good" jump shooter, you said he was a great jump shooter.

 

[HuskerCradle2Grave]

Another great article.

Goes through NBA chronology fro m1970 to 2010 detailing league scoring average along with nba rule changes that coincide with scoring average changes.

It is popular to slander the defense of the NBA... in reality, the defense in todays' NBA is as sophisticated, skilled and effective as its ever been.

From your article.

2002: The following rules were implemented to limit defenses.

A. No contact with either hands or forearms by defenders except in the frontcourt below the free throw line extended in which case the defender may use his forearm only.
B. Neither the offensive player nor the defender will be allowed to dislodge or displace a player who has legally obtained a position. (They might as well have named this one "The Shaq Rule.")
C. Defender may not use his forearm, shoulder, hip or hand to reroute or hold-up an offensive player going from point A to Point B or one who is attempting to come around a legal screen set by another offensive player.
D. Slowing or impeding the progress of the screener by grabbing, clutching, holding “chucking” or “wrapping up” is prohibited.

 

[rmilia1]

Do you consider Ray Allen elite? Dirk? Who is an elite jump shooter in your opinion?

Different playing style. Give me some more options. LOL. I did look up LBJ's toals from the last 4 years and they are almost identical to MJs last 4 years on jump shooting so I guess thats a good comparison. Great player but not a GREAT shooter. Unfortunately shot charts only go back to 96 so guys like Bird wouldnt be available to be seen but I bet that would be interesting.

 

[HuskerCradle2Grave]

Well I guess that depends on where the majority of your shots from 10+ are coming from. If ( like MJ ) you dont shoot as many 3's as you do shots from 10-18 feet then I think 44+ is good but not great. If you are more prone to shoot deeper shots like Kobe or Reggie Miller then that number is different. MJ was unique in that he really didnt shoot many 3's for a long portion of his career. 44% seems like a good number so Ill go with that BUT you didnt say he was a "good" jump shooter, you said he was a great jump shooter.

You gave me the chart. 8-24 feet is mid range according to that. Jesus man. Not 3 point land because there is a % all its own for that.

So are you going to give me a couple of elite jump shooter's names or what?

 

[HuskerCradle2Grave]

Different playing style. Give me some more options. LOL. I did look up LBJ's toals from the last 4 years and they are almost identical to MJs last 4 years on jump shooting so I guess thats a good comparison. Great player but not a GREAT shooter. Unfortunately shot charts only go back to 96 so guys like Bird wouldnt be available to be seen but I bet that would be interesting.

You just won't be pinned down will you. PLAYING STYLE DOESN'T MATTER. WE ARE TALKING ABOUT SHOOTING THE ROCK FROM 8-24 feet out. Not 3 point snipers. Not going to the rack. Who in your opinion is a great shooter from mid range?

 

[rmilia1]

You just won't be pinned down will you. PLAYING STYLE DOESN'T MATTER. WE ARE TALKING ABOUT SHOOTING THE ROCK FROM 8-24 feet out. Not 3 point snipers. Not going to the rack. Who in your opinion is a great shooter from mid range?

OK well current guys that are shooters and still semi prime. Ill go Dirk. Im guessing he is a solid 46-48% from 8-24 although Im certain he has far more long range shots than MJ but go on ahead man

 

[RoboticDreams]

Yep. Looks easy...

And coaches say with today's rules, Jordan would average 40...

Too bad he didn't bite his own tongue off.

 

[Jims_Doors]

Prime Kobe tried to win a Finals MVP by going away from the system against Detroit and came up a lame duck.

Then went on to miss the playoffs the following season and then got bounced in the 1st round the following 2 seasons.

 

[RoboticDreams]

Prime Kobe tried to win a Finals MVP by going away from the system against Detroit and came up a lame duck.

Then went on to miss the playoffs the following season and then got bounced in the 1st round the following 2 seasons.

So that's your answer...

 

[SteelersPride]

OP has started 2 threads and has 8 posts, and both are some version of prime kobe, vs prime Lebron or MJ

Kobe fan kid?

 

[HuskerCradle2Grave]

OK long mid range it is. 16 -24 feet.

So the oldest shot chart for MJ was 1996-97, in the middle of the 2nd 3peat. It was 13 years after he joined the league (I included the year he was out for baseball), so that will be the comparison year. Thirteen years after joining the NBA.

Jordan was 33. He shot his 3rd worst 2P% (.486) in those 13 years (not counting the 17 games of 1995 when he came back.)

Dirk, in the 13th year of his career was 32. His team also won a championship that year. He shot a career best .517 from the floor (not counting 3P).

Total shots from 16 -24 feet.

MJ - 653
Dirk - 405

Percentage from that distance.

MJ - 46.34
Dirk - 52.77

Because you mentioned in post #88 8 - 24 feet, let's look at that too. But first 8-16 feet.

Total shots
MJ - 682
Dirk - 359

Percentage from 8-16 feet

MJ - 51.54
Dirk - 49.82

So total mid range numbers 8-24 feet.

Total shots.

MJ - 1335
Dirk - 764

Percentage from 8-24 feet.
MJ - 48.92
Dirk - 50.35

That is a 1.43% difference.

So there you go...

 

[HuskerCradle2Grave]

Too bad he didn't bite his own tongue off.

Hey now...

 

[Kinzu]

Interesting article on the topic of scoring being down due to defense...

And how do you beat this? Ball movement to the side of the court the defenders vacate, and with the threat of a low-post game.

The NBA of today is all slashers and shooters. The art of a low-post game and a mid-range jumper are nearly non-existent today. How many guys in the NBA today can catch the ball with their back to the basket then turn and score today? Everyone considers Dwight Howard one of the best low-post threats in the game, but he would be average back in the 90's era or earlier. The game has evolved to the point where everyone wants to be the flashy ball-handler or the deep ball shooter. You don't see many skilled under the basket guys anymore.

 

[Kinzu]

http://youtu.be/gqkcEthV0Gg

I don't think MJ cared sometimes how many defenders you rotated to his side of the court.

 

[HuskerCradle2Grave]

rmilia, where are ya buddy? Not digging the numbers?

 

[HammerDown]

 

[GNG]

It isn't even close.

Pete Maravich was better than either of them.

 

[LogicMan]

Offensively it's fair for people to bring Bryant up in conversation on Jordan albeit much lower shooting efficiency

That's about where it ends

Still that's a great career Kobe had