politics thread

[Sportster 72]

So im curious about a couple things that can maybe lead to some less hostile discussions than we're used to having (lol who am I kidding)...


How possible do you all think it is to change somebody's mind on something in a thread like this?

Has your mind been changed because of anything said here?

What's the best way to actually change somebody's mind in a thread like this?


Who are the definite non Trump voters pulling for in 2020? Any favorites in the field?

Are there any of you who are torn between voting for the Dem, Trump, or a 3rd party candidate and if so who who would make you vote each way?

Has been a joke I have made since early on in this thread …. anyone come to consensus decision/who's winning?

I don't think many will change their minds and I do not read most in this thread but hopefully everyone is reading with an open enough mind to consider other ideas …. unlikely though.

 

[reptec101]

So im curious about a couple things that can maybe lead to some less hostile discussions than we're used to having (lol who am I kidding)...

How possible do you all think it is to change somebody's mind on something in a thread like this?
When Trump haters (just because) believe that MAGA means to reinstate slavery back to a white dominate country there is no reasoning with them of any kind, and therefore impossible to sway them in anyway.
Has your mind been changed because of anything said here?
Yes, I never realized the resentment to us white folk because of our repersentation with the vilified phrase "white privilege"
What's the best way to actually change somebody's mind in a thread like this?


Who are the definite non Trump voters pulling for in 2020? Any favorites in the field?
It doesn't matter. Bin Ladens uncle Leo could run chanting death to all americans and they would still vote for him over Trump. Scary.
Are there any of you who are torn between voting for the Dem, Trump, or a 3rd party candidate and if so who who would make you vote each way?
Trumps an asshole. I won't deny that, ands his tweets can be idiotic. However, the democratic party and their loyal followers have never once applauded anything good he has done ( I know,, he's done nothing,, blah blah blah) They have spent his entire administration bashing and trying to remove him from office at any cost to regain power. Even if it means lying to get the job done as they put their own country second in line. Corruption is only linked to the party you vote against. Ignorance at its finest. Everybody on this board already knows who they are voting for in the 2020 election. Why pretend. People are pissed off everywhere and the media and all there biased opinionated BS is the sole reason for the seperation. I have seen good in Trump and I have seen bad but he is our duly elected president who deserves the same respect that Obama had who was an arrogant asshole in his own right... but he doesn't get that respect. The one thing I will never understand is why anyone would even want to be president.

"Cant we all just get along" Rodney king. Best quote in the last 50 years.

 

[Toadman005]

Wah, wah, wah, everyone is against me, weak assed, I'm the victim Trump BS!! I wish that SHE would grow a pair and stop being such a pussy!

Well, this was an intelligent, well thought out counter argument.

 

[Sportster 72]

So im curious about a couple things that can maybe lead to some less hostile discussions than we're used to having (lol who am I kidding)...

How possible do you all think it is to change somebody's mind on something in a thread like this?
When Trump haters (just because) believe that MAGA means to reinstate slavery back to a white dominate country there is no reasoning with them of any kind, and therefore impossible to sway them in anyway.
Has your mind been changed because of anything said here?
Yes, I never realized the resentment to us white folk because of our repersentation with the vilified phrase "white privilege"
What's the best way to actually change somebody's mind in a thread like this?


Who are the definite non Trump voters pulling for in 2020? Any favorites in the field?
It doesn't matter. Bin Ladens uncle Leo could run chanting death to all americans and they would still vote for him over Trump. Scary.
Are there any of you who are torn between voting for the Dem, Trump, or a 3rd party candidate and if so who who would make you vote each way?
Trumps an asshole. I won't deny that, ands his tweets can be idiotic. However, the democratic party and their loyal followers have never once applauded anything good he has done ( I know,, he's done nothing,, blah blah blah) They have spent his entire administration bashing and trying to remove him from office at any cost to regain power. Even if it means lying to get the job done as they put their own country second in line. Corruption is only linked to the party you vote against. Ignorance at its finest. Everybody on this board already knows who they are voting for in the 2020 election. Why pretend. People are pissed off everywhere and the media and all there biased opinionated BS is the sole reason for the seperation. I have seen good in Trump and I have seen bad but he is our duly elected president who deserves the same respect that Obama had who was an arrogant asshole in his own right... but he doesn't get that respect. The one thing I will never understand is why anyone would even want to be president.

"Cant we all just get along" Rodney king. Best quote in the last 50 years.

Although I am not arguing your points the same could be said of pretty much every president in my lifetime.

I do think the press is at an all-time worst when it comes to Trump. However they have been bad no matter who is in office.

It reminds me of a post I just read, did we trade three No. 1s or 2 No. 1s to get Griffin. I could see the argument going one round but when it gets to the "no, I AM right" stage. Well ….

 

[j_y19]

So im curious about a couple things that can maybe lead to some less hostile discussions than we're used to having (lol who am I kidding)...


How possible do you all think it is to change somebody's mind on something in a thread like this?

Has your mind been changed because of anything said here?

What's the best way to actually change somebody's mind in a thread like this?


Who are the definite non Trump voters pulling for in 2020? Any favorites in the field?

Are there any of you who are torn between voting for the Dem, Trump, or a 3rd party candidate and if so who who would make you vote each way?

How possible do you all think it is to change somebody's mind on something in a thread like this?
In a thread like this? Not very possible. Face to face, absolutely.

Has your mind been changed because of anything said here?

Kinda. I definitely have a found appreciation for the ideas and opinions from those of the other side when they are presented logically and factually. So I would say that I'm more willing to consider other options than I was, say, 2 years ago.

What's the best way to actually change somebody's mind in a thread like this?

First, debate from an area of respect and realization that, for the most part, we all want the same basic things. Health, freedom, safety, opportunity. Take a minute to first realize that that person on the other side believes what they say and, even though it is different from you, they are not wrong. Just different. They see things differently because of their life experiences. On both sides.
Start there and you might have a chance. God know our elected officials don't do it anymore.

Who are the definite non Trump voters pulling for in 2020? Any favorites in the field?

I have no idea. But they better offer better that we have seen so far. These types of candidates will only drive more to the GOP. Meaning we will see Trump for another term. Is that want they want?

Are there any of you who are torn between voting for the Dem, Trump, or a 3rd party candidate and if so who who would make you vote each way?

I am definitely in play and waiting to see what happens. I voted for Trump last time. I held my nose and pulled the lever because the alternative was worse (I still believe that). But I have developed a real issue with Trump. Less on his policies (I don't agree with them all, but overall we have righted the ship) and more on him as a man. He will not get my vote again as of today. I would welcome a 3rd party candidate. Our Party system is broken. Somehow the Party became more important than the country over the last 15 or 20 years ago (hmmm...coincides with Snyder's ownership of our team....). Its more important the smash the other side than it is to find common ground and enact legislation that moves us forward. A third party might help restore some balance, but probably not.

 

[Sportster 72]

Like j_y I voted for Trump because I believed that HRC was a much worse option. My mind has not changed. There were others I would have voted for if given the option.

I don't know what I will do in two years. I am very offended by how the press has acted and not at all happy with Pelosi or Schumer. The swamp is real and I don't like … from either party.

I always think back to Reagan and Tip O'Neill. There were two guys who were so far apart politically but found to reach common ground for the good of the country. I am afraid I will never see that again.

 

[skinsdad62]

If you don’t understand why democracies have failed in the past because of popular. Vote the you need to take a real poly sci class not taught by a socialist . Direct vote is mob rule . Candidates would only have to campaign in high population states or cities while other parts of the country wouldn’t have their issues addressed.

Now popular vote on a state or local level is fine because individual states send senators and congressmen to represent them but a president represents the whole country

Now I know damn good and well if HRC had won this electoral college BS. Wouldn’t be an issue

We have laws and checks and balances the founding fathers were wise enough to put in .

Say Donald Trump wins the popular vote this time but loses or ties in the EC . My guy stands to lose when it’s thrown into the House of Representatives ( if tied or not at 279)

Now will I be pissed ? Yes will I cry like a bitch and want a change ? No Why ? It’s called having values and principals and respect for our laws

 

[skinsdad62]

Australia is no longer contributing to the United Nation's Green Climate Fund

 

[skinsdad62]

My response to any Dems questioning whether someone in Trump’s staff deserves security clearance would be: Did Hillary Clinton lose her security clearance after exposing 100 classified docs to Russia, China, North Korea & Anthony Wiener’s laptop? No? Then shut your pie holes.

 

[skinsdad62]

Amazing that there are so many journalists like Amanpour who are rich and famous because of the 1st Amendment-


Who have apparently neither read nor understood the 1st Amendment

 

[skinsdad62]

China Bans All Types of Fentanyl, Cutting Supply of Deadly Drug to U.S. and Fulfilling Pledge to Trump

Another good thing Trump wont get credit for

 

[ehb5]

Drive by posting here




Not at all.



What i think of some people has been changed for damn sure.



YOu cant, you can simply show your point of view. But I think the country is so polarized that us vs them will continue to grow.




Pete Buttigieg with Kamala Harris as his VP would be AWESOME.




I will never vote for Trump again. And as we have the EC in full effect, voting 3rd party is a vote for Trump. So no thanks.


\Ghost

Ill agree with the changing views of people. Some eye opening comments for sure.

The polarization is absurd. There are so many people just convinced one side is the enemy.

Im interested in Buttigieg and Harris. Also Warren for having genuine policies, and Biden for being moderate - but I get the concern over his uhh issues. Long process though.

Same, Trump is completely unfit to be president imo - he cant earn my vote. Ill likely go Dem, but its not guaranteed if they really eff things up.

 

[ehb5]

1.How possible do you all think it is to change somebody's mind on something in a thread like this?

Highly unlikely, yet still possible for those who still employ some objectivity.


2. Has your mind been changed because of anything said here?

Sure, there have been some interesting points made here. More peripheral than core beliefs though.


3. What's the best way to actually change somebody's mind in a thread like this?

Literally? Well, I suppose that taking a dump into someone's hat moments before they put it on their head would cause the wearer to realize how much of a shithead they actually are.


4. Who are the definite non Trump voters pulling for in 2020? Any favorites in the field?

I'm actually waiting for the field to crystalize more. In fact, I don't think that the current field is set yet, especially on the Republican side. Bill Weld and John Kasich are both exploring challenges on the right. I like Kasich and on the Dem side no definitive favorite yet but any ticket must IMO include Harris if she doesn't capture the top spot.


5. Are there any of you who are torn between voting for the Dem, Trump, or a 3rd party candidate and if so who would make you vote each way?

Fuck Trump, he was a weak assed slimy sucker baiting, conman before fooling too many in the country with his BS, and he remains a weak, ball-less, low IQ, mass of shit now! (that's my nice version)

Politically, I am an independent who remains fiscally conservative and socially progressive. As an independent , I would love to see a country where this majority actually elects a 3rd party independent since the two party system needs a swift kick in the asshole!

1. Yea I almost think it would be a lot more possible to sway the mind of a visitor or an infrequent poster than it would be to sway the mind of anybody in the heated discussions.

2. Fair.

3.

4. A republican challenge to trump would be interesting. I really doubt anybody on the right could beat him because it really is the party of trump at this point - and unfortunately i dont think the GOP can just move on from this one and laugh it off. As bad as trump is he's also shown a light on a light of garbage in the GOP that wont go away just because trump is gone.

5. So much for keeping this discussion calm!

Completely agree with this point, and we likely have some pretty similar views with a few caveats.

 

[ehb5]

Has been a joke I have made since early on in this thread …. anyone come to consensus decision/who's winning?

I don't think many will change their minds and I do not read most in this thread but hopefully everyone is reading with an open enough mind to consider other ideas …. unlikely though.

Part of what made me think of it lol.

I (at least try to) read with an open mind - I really enjoy discussing/debating political views. The problem imo in this thread is that there's too much of a struggle to stay 1. on topic and actually have a logical sustained conversation and 2. to straight up be accurate or factual whether the poster realizes it or not.

 

[ehb5]

So im curious about a couple things that can maybe lead to some less hostile discussions than we're used to having (lol who am I kidding)...

How possible do you all think it is to change somebody's mind on something in a thread like this?
When Trump haters (just because) believe that MAGA means to reinstate slavery back to a white dominate country there is no reasoning with them of any kind, and therefore impossible to sway them in anyway.
Has your mind been changed because of anything said here?
Yes, I never realized the resentment to us white folk because of our repersentation with the vilified phrase "white privilege"
What's the best way to actually change somebody's mind in a thread like this?


Who are the definite non Trump voters pulling for in 2020? Any favorites in the field?
It doesn't matter. Bin Ladens uncle Leo could run chanting death to all americans and they would still vote for him over Trump. Scary.
Are there any of you who are torn between voting for the Dem, Trump, or a 3rd party candidate and if so who who would make you vote each way?
Trumps an asshole. I won't deny that, ands his tweets can be idiotic. However, the democratic party and their loyal followers have never once applauded anything good he has done ( I know,, he's done nothing,, blah blah blah) They have spent his entire administration bashing and trying to remove him from office at any cost to regain power. Even if it means lying to get the job done as they put their own country second in line. Corruption is only linked to the party you vote against. Ignorance at its finest. Everybody on this board already knows who they are voting for in the 2020 election. Why pretend. People are pissed off everywhere and the media and all there biased opinionated BS is the sole reason for the seperation. I have seen good in Trump and I have seen bad but he is our duly elected president who deserves the same respect that Obama had who was an arrogant asshole in his own right... but he doesn't get that respect. The one thing I will never understand is why anyone would even want to be president.

"Cant we all just get along" Rodney king. Best quote in the last 50 years.

Did somebody say that Trump or trump supporters wanted to reinstate slavery? And if not then what does that have to do with convincing somebody of anything in this thread? Im pretty sure there are a lot of anti trump people in this thread who dont think trump is bringing back slavery.

I dont think anybody in this thread resents white folks. Acknowledging the existence of (believing in, if you prefer) white privilege doesnt mean you resent white folks.

And if it DOES mean that to you then you have a VERY low bar for what constitutes resentment towards a group of people and you may want to ask yourself why you are only complaining about the resentment towards white folks.

You make a patently false claim and then call it scary - thats like if I said Trump supporters would have voted for "Bin Ladens uncle Leo chanting death to all americans over Hillary. Scary"

Not to mention its a completely irrelevant scenario. Why dont you focus on that there are realistic alternatives to Trump.

Ehh. I dont know who im voting for yet. (THough it will probably be somebody with a D by their name and it definitely wont be Trump).

The only people I have seen claim trump doesnt get the respect he deserves are people who had no respect for obama.

As far as actually respecting trump? Nah. He was never somebody worthy of respect and we dont need idol worship in this country. Him being president doesnt earn him my respect.

 

[ehb5]

How possible do you all think it is to change somebody's mind on something in a thread like this?
In a thread like this? Not very possible. Face to face, absolutely.

Has your mind been changed because of anything said here?

Kinda. I definitely have a found appreciation for the ideas and opinions from those of the other side when they are presented logically and factually. So I would say that I'm more willing to consider other options than I was, say, 2 years ago.

What's the best way to actually change somebody's mind in a thread like this?

First, debate from an area of respect and realization that, for the most part, we all want the same basic things. Health, freedom, safety, opportunity. Take a minute to first realize that that person on the other side believes what they say and, even though it is different from you, they are not wrong. Just different. They see things differently because of their life experiences. On both sides.
Start there and you might have a chance. God know our elected officials don't do it anymore.

Who are the definite non Trump voters pulling for in 2020? Any favorites in the field?

I have no idea. But they better offer better that we have seen so far. These types of candidates will only drive more to the GOP. Meaning we will see Trump for another term. Is that want they want?

Are there any of you who are torn between voting for the Dem, Trump, or a 3rd party candidate and if so who who would make you vote each way?

I am definitely in play and waiting to see what happens. I voted for Trump last time. I held my nose and pulled the lever because the alternative was worse (I still believe that). But I have developed a real issue with Trump. Less on his policies (I don't agree with them all, but overall we have righted the ship) and more on him as a man. He will not get my vote again as of today. I would welcome a 3rd party candidate. Our Party system is broken. Somehow the Party became more important than the country over the last 15 or 20 years ago (hmmm...coincides with Snyder's ownership of our team....). Its more important the smash the other side than it is to find common ground and enact legislation that moves us forward. A third party might help restore some balance, but probably not.

Face to face is definitely better, I agree. Although in both situations, a lot comes down to the people in the conversation. Also internet access while debating is helpful lol.

Well thats good I guess. I do agree that actually being factual and logical is huge and that snark doesnt really help convincing anybody (guilty), but also...some comments dont really warrant patient detailed replies when theyll just be ignored anyways.

On a high level, I agree we all want the same things. I dont think any o the regular skins board posters are malicious in any of their beliefs. But that doesnt mean there arent awful things being said or harmful beliefs and/or people being defended.

I think theres also a lot of wanting those high level things you mentioned but a lack of desire to actually reflect honestly about whether our beliefs actually support any of that.

I think the Dem candidates are reasonable enough. Theyre as flawed as youd expect politicians to be and reality is that conservatives who arent gonna vote for trump arent gonna get a conservative option from the dems. Just gotta hold your nose and go for it (not saying you personally have to do that). The way i see it - we need to work our way back from trump. The dem candidate doesnt have to be a good candidate to be a big step in the right direction. We can worry about good next. Though I will say a candidate who will call out the rampant partisanship and try to tone down the us vs them stuff would be preferred.

I would love a genuine, moderate, policy oriented, open minded, 3rd party. Maybe some day.

 

[ehb5]

Like j_y I voted for Trump because I believed that HRC was a much worse option. My mind has not changed. There were others I would have voted for if given the option.

I don't know what I will do in two years. I am very offended by how the press has acted and not at all happy with Pelosi or Schumer. The swamp is real and I don't like … from either party.

I always think back to Reagan and Tip O'Neill. There were two guys who were so far apart politically but found to reach common ground for the good of the country. I am afraid I will never see that again.

Im curious what made HRC the much worse option? Was it just policy? Because it seems hard to imagine youll have a more favorable policy option from Dems in 2020 if you prefer trumps policies to her.

If its the general sleaze, corruption, and security issues I have a hard time seeing how trump could be an option in 2020.

FWIW, I think Hillary was a bad candidate, but Trump was easily worse imo (which is really saying something).

 

[skinsdad62]

Illegal alien previously deported for sex offenses arrested in Louisiana for child exploitation

Almost daily you can find this

 

[ehb5]

If you don’t understand why democracies have failed in the past because of popular. Vote the you need to take a real poly sci class not taught by a socialist . Direct vote is mob rule . Candidates would only have to campaign in high population states or cities while other parts of the country wouldn’t have their issues addressed.

Now popular vote on a state or local level is fine because individual states send senators and congressmen to represent them but a president represents the whole country

Now I know damn good and well if HRC had won this electoral college BS. Wouldn’t be an issue

We have laws and checks and balances the founding fathers were wise enough to put in .

Say Donald Trump wins the popular vote this time but loses or ties in the EC . My guy stands to lose when it’s thrown into the House of Representatives ( if tied or not at 279)

Now will I be pissed ? Yes will I cry like a bitch and want a change ? No Why ? It’s called having values and principals and respect for our laws

Are you arguing that democracy is bad and...socialist?

Youre senators and congressmen are elected by mob rule?

Thinking we need to change our laws is a pretty american thing Id say. You might want to consider that the people pushing for a popular vote just have different values and principles than you. Not better, not worse.

 

[gkekoa]

1. Do you make this stuff on the fly? (Take note of the science involved) Here's the majority opinion in Roe v. Wade...

Majority Opinion
On Jan. 22, 1973, the Supreme Court handed down their ruling, holding that a woman's right to an abortion falls within the right to privacy protected by the Fourteenth Amendment. The decision gave a woman a right to abortion during the entirety of the pregnancy and defined different levels of state interest for regulating abortion in the second and third trimesters.

• In the first trimester, the state (that is, any government) could treat abortion only as a medical decision, leaving medical judgment to the woman's physician.
• In the second trimester (before viability), the state's interest was seen as legitimate when it was protecting the health of the mother.
• After the viability of the fetus (the likely ability of the fetus to survive outside of and separated from the uterus), the potential of human life could be considered as a legitimate state interest. The state could choose to "regulate, or even proscribe abortion" as long as the life and health of the mother was protected.

2. What was true then as it remains today, there's picking a choosing from old and new testament. This is undeniable as evidenced by this...

Passages referencing and condoning slavery are common in the Old Testament. In one place, we read:

"When a slave owner strikes a male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies immediately, the owner shall be punished. But if the slave survives a day or two, there is no punishment; for the slave is the owner's property." (Exodus 21:20-21)

Then contradicted by this...

“Anyone who kidnaps someone is to be put to death, whether the victim has been sold or is still in the kidnapper’s possession” (Exodus 21:16).


Clearly greedy, selfish, soulless slavers selected one over the other because one served them while the other did not.

3. The Republican party? That's your reference? I know that you are a person of faith but you're absolutely taking that belief thing to new heights with this response.

4. Good point...(fetus not a baby) and I stand corrected. Please amend my original position to read "couple involved" instead of "mother and father." BTW: I do appreciate your support on this issue as you're finally agreeing that there is no mother/father because a fetus is not a baby.

If a person "believes" that that life begins at conception, that is their right and I support that right...for them! Anyone who "believes" that to be untrue also gets my support. I'm not sure why the believing couple would become angry as they likely would try to bring that issue to term.

1- There is nothing scientific about what you just posted.

2- You do realize that isn’t condoning slavery as much as it is giving rules to when it happens. Slavery was a fact of life in this time.

How is this contradictory?

Again, show me in the Bible where it shows white people are superior. Does it mention race regarding slavery? Nope.

4- why don’t you support the couple that wants to kill their three year old? If killing a three year old was legal, would you sit by and watch it happen?