politics thread

[gkekoa]

I too was confused as hell why MM went for two. That was just dumb

Could have to do with going up six and his kicker having missed two XPs this game alone.

 

[Rowdy]

Yea but Crosby is a good kicker

 

[Sharkinva]

LOL... So Native Aemricans weren't prevalent on the continent in the 1400's. Too funny. Ive never said only Indians had colonized and were living in America before Columbus..or Vespucci... or Leaf Eriksson 500 years earlier had stepped on it's soil. They're are a lot of theories and speculation on its population of various people. BTW, I only mentioned Columbus because it's universally believed. I'm not gonna argue and debate this very ancient shit. Because one scholar will tell you one thing and another will tell you something totally different. Records weren't kept so only artifacts found can paint a picture of who and what were actually here. Move on.

Rep... the problem is, those ancient shit types of things are what directly lead to the way American Indians, Blacks, Latinos and any one not of caucasian lineage are treated in this country today. And thats honestly what people are pissed about. Its the reason Kaep took a knee. Because no matter how much we want to say that America is the land of freedom and opportunity, both freedom and opportunity in this country are still subject to a shading chart. If Kaep had only stayed in his designated lane, things would be peachy.

 

[reptec101]

@reptec101 ....I would love to have a "fair" "logical" "reasonable" conversation with you. I promise to respond to your initial posting, but as a reminder these are the questions that I would like answered as a basis upon which that conversation must take place. If you have some of your own that don't distract from the "CORE" issue I'll respond to those too!!


1. Outside of birth rite, what does it mean to be "American?"
How can I answer this without speculation. I was born in America so I obviously can't answer a question on behalf of those that do not have a birth right. It's like asking me how it feels to be black.
2. Outside of support, what are the responsibilities of "Americans?"
Again, this is a hard question to answer because what being an american means differs from person to person. For me; my responsibilities as an american is to honor its laws. Its citizens. Not much else I can do. I don't decide policies. Aside from sharing in a protest I'm just a distant voice.
3. Do you think that change comes because protest is admired or well placed, or when it makes their intended targets uncomfortable? This is easy. A protest with violence and disruption falls on deaf ears. The loudest voice heard is of silence. I can promise you had BLM not acted with disrespect at political rallies and violence towards police they would have been heard (their pleas) by the white community. What america sees is violence and for the most part people want peace in their lives. People see blocking of freeways. All this does is piss people off.. and turned off. I can assure you had I been blocked and in the process of rushing a family member to the hospital somebodies ass would have been ran over. I understand its both races that do that shit. Give me a protest of a group holding hands in a peaceful manner I would be more apt to give a shit. I support their cause but not in the manner they conduct.

4. Military men such as @dad, @Shark and myself have risked everything because we believe/ believed in the promise of this country. What actions or activities should those who also believe in the promise of this country do in order to make it the best that it can be? Listen, I will be the first to applaud all your services in the military to make this the greatest nation in the world. Life is a one time gift and risking that for me you have my upmost respect. Again, I don't make policy, laws or anything that would benefit any american.

5. First slavery, then Jim Crow, followed by James Crow esquire, why do you not believe that racism in its current form is NOT an off-spring of those systems? I never said racism isn't an extension of any of these arms. Racism will always exist. People of all colors are prejudice to some degree to those that don't look like them. Don't be ignorant to that fact, and please don't tell me you haven't any prejudices. It's human nature. Racism is not. It's an ugly flame that will never be extinguished. As my own person all I can do is respect everyone to the best of my ability. If everyone abided to that simple form of human decency then maybe black and white one day wouldn't be colors at all.

I don't want to overdo this so I'll temporarily end with this:

6. Do you support the notion that in this country, we should all be comfortable with a system that overwhelmingly supports one group, often at the expense of other groups, including the poor, invites all others to join, at partial measure, just as long as they support that system?
I want my political leaders to make it easier to live in this country for everyone. Set taxes accordingly to wages earned. Until our politicians can decide on the simplest of things don't expect change in this world. Until people of means are charged the same as the common people don't expect any change. However, none of this will ever happen because of the corrupt nature of our political leaders both republican and democrat.

Listen, I can't apologize for being born white. I'm living the hand dealt me be it for good or worse. I'm not a Nazi or a white supremist. I'm just a whity in the majority of those who want everyone to be treated equally and with respect, but when I see lawlessness and looting and destruction of property and heroin dealers that attack police and then are honored within their community I have to wonder if others don't want the same. I understand that blacks are profiled more by police and I wish that would change, because it is unfair, but when non compliance is practiced in a simple traffic stop I can't have pity for what transpires black or white when it gets physical. I'm not a bad guy,,, I'm just a white who has been labeled a racist by association... and therein lies a lot of the worlds problems. Peace.

 

[skinsdad62]

Could have to do with going up six and his kicker having missed two XPs this game alone.

yeah but it was foolish GK , kick the EP and if dallas scores a TD you get a chance at the FG to win . getting the 2 doesnt really do much for you . you still win with the FG

 

[gkekoa]

See this is where people of African America or of Native American heritage have a problem with the line of thinking or justification. You are basically saying that because white men were more technologically advanced, and there were no laws to prevent what they did, it was apparently OK. Because they bought slaves from Africans in Africa, and it was legal... we black folks in America need to just get over Slavery and more to the point, we need to accept that the social mind set established during slavery does not remain today. And by that I mean mainly that even if it is not openly stated any more, there are portions of white America that find any one NOT white to be inferior. I agree that you will probably never find a totally level playing field in this world, there will always be some sort of cast system. But just as the underlying message is always.. black folk need to just get over it, until more of America can accept that blacks, Latinos, Asians and Native Americans are not inferior because they arent white... we wont ever just get over it.

So were white men the only people who ever expanded their lands? Nope.

Slaves were also bought from Europe and not black.

There are black people who think whites are inferior too. Both are wrong. Individuals have strengths and weaknesses.

I would word it a bit differently...take care of that which you can control and prove the ignorant wrong. 80% of black children are born outside of marriage. The overwhelming figure within our prison systems that can determine a future of crime is an absentee father. If you want to get ahead, get an education and take it serious when you are young.

 

[Rowdy]

I believe MM just had that much faith in his offense scoring on Dallas d that he got greedy, could’ve been costly though

 

[skinsdad62]

Rep... the problem is, those ancient shit types of things are what directly lead to the way American Indians, Blacks, Latinos and any one not of caucasian lineage are treated in this country today. And thats honestly what people are pissed about. Its the reason Kaep took a knee. Because no matter how much we want to say that America is the land of freedom and opportunity, both freedom and opportunity in this country are still subject to a shading chart. If Kaep had only stayed in his designated lane, things would be peachy.

you know shark i agree with what you have to say however lost in this are a couple of things

1) Kaep said who couldnt support a country that oppresses 1/3 of its people . So the disrespect is there from the get go

2) he followed that up by wearing socks depicting cops as pigs , so i dont think he was into an outreach program with that wardrobe choice

3) his girlfriend ( and probably the driving force behind this behavior ) is a black lives matters activist

now last saturday night i was greeted at my hotel with nine police cruisers . i was stopped for driving a red van in a small town wear a armed robbery/murder happened and the suspect was white driving a red minivan . i had done nothing , nothing at all but my response was different . i followed instructions , i let the police do their job and cooperated and i didnt fight , berate , grab their guns ETC . i was detained for no reason and the cops used their loophole to stop me (broken tail light ) this isnt the first time this white guy has been mis i'd in LA a similar thing happened and they were much rougher , and in el paso tx i was jailed for several hours for the offense of being a white guy in the wrong place

what i do know is this , cops dont know what they are walking up to in even a routine stop . so i give them the benefit of the doubt . sure they are bad cops but again we are talking about things that are rare . 123 shootings of black people out of over 4 million arrests and we are chasing our tales over stuff that rarely happens . the press hypes the story to divide us as a people .

our country has come a long way but it has a long way to go . i cant think of a country that treats its minorities much better . its hard to weed out the haters on both sides . what can i do ? what can we do ? i can raise my children to treat everyone with dignity and respect . that is what i /we can do .

the flag controversy has turned into a flag debate rather then bringing attention to a cause . my question is what is the end game ? and what is the next "cause " that they will kneel for ? why do i have to have a bunch of assholes tell me how i should think ? and most of all during my escape period . damn i can turn on CNN , Fox ABC CBS NBC NPR MSNBC CNBC to get the politics .

and i am sorry but i will always have trouble with people making millions of dollars , being able to actually protest , and say whatever the hell they want about the govt , and tell me they are oppressed

i KNOW what oppression is , real oppression and this country isnt even close

so jail the bad cops , even execute them but the overwhelming majority of cops do their jobs the right way

 

[skinsdad62]

my last point is this , if any of my Friends of color are harassed by anyone because of who they are i will be there ready to wear the lining out of some bigot ass

 

[gkekoa]

my last point is this , if any of my Friends of color are harassed by anyone because of who they are i will be there ready to wear the lining out of some bigot ass

Amen. Also, I want to make this very clear, three of the opinions I respect the most on this site are Shark, Sty, and Breed.

 

[Sharkinva]

you know shark i agree with what you have to say however lost in this are a couple of things

1) Kaep said who couldnt support a country that oppresses 1/3 of its people . So the disrespect is there from the get go

2) he followed that up by wearing socks depicting cops as pigs , so i dont think he was into an outreach program with that wardrobe choice

3) his girlfriend ( and probably the driving force behind this behavior ) is a black lives matters activist

now last saturday night i was greeted at my hotel with nine police cruisers . i was stopped for driving a red van in a small town wear a armed robbery/murder happened and the suspect was white driving a red minivan . i had done nothing , nothing at all but my response was different . i followed instructions , i let the police do their job and cooperated and i didnt fight , berate , grab their guns ETC . i was detained for no reason and the cops used their loophole to stop me (broken tail light ) this isnt the first time this white guy has been mis i'd in LA a similar thing happened and they were much rougher , and in el paso tx i was jailed for several hours for the offense of being a white guy in the wrong place

what i do know is this , cops dont know what they are walking up to in even a routine stop . so i give them the benefit of the doubt . sure they are bad cops but again we are talking about things that are rare . 123 shootings of black people out of over 4 million arrests and we are chasing our tales over stuff that rarely happens . the press hypes the story to divide us as a people .

our country has come a long way but it has a long way to go . i cant think of a country that treats its minorities much better . its hard to weed out the haters on both sides . what can i do ? what can we do ? i can raise my children to treat everyone with dignity and respect . that is what i /we can do .

the flag controversy has turned into a flag debate rather then bringing attention to a cause . my question is what is the end game ? and what is the next "cause " that they will kneel for ? why do i have to have a bunch of assholes tell me how i should think ? and most of all during my escape period . damn i can turn on CNN , Fox ABC CBS NBC NPR MSNBC CNBC to get the politics .

and i am sorry but i will always have trouble with people making millions of dollars , being able to actually protest , and say whatever the hell they want about the govt , and tell me they are oppressed

i KNOW what oppression is , real oppression and this country isnt even close

so jail the bad cops , even execute them but the overwhelming majority of cops do their jobs the right way

YOu know I actually agree with you that the majority of police officers are fine upstanding people. Hell Im friends with quite a few, and I have a son currently in the academy. But I also happen to think, its not just about the 123 shot, but more about the culturally accepted bias by not just white cops. Fuck I would rather be pulled over by ten white cops, than a white cop and a black cop riding together.

And for the record I dont think every white person, or even the majority of them are openly or even secretly racist. But I have a very hard time accepting the cry of Im not racist because I had nothing to do with slavery, but it was legal at the time.. so I should get over it. As @Stymietee pointed out, racism in this country has just slowly transformed from Segregation, Jim Crow, to James Crow Esq to our current state. See to me its not about the 123 guys who got shot, because by and large most of them DID in fact do something to get it to that level. My beef is that the ones who DIDNT do anything to get to that level, ended up shot as well.

 

[Sharkinva]

Amen. Also, I want to make this very clear, three of the opinions I respect the most on this site are Shark, Sty, and Breed.

Greatly appreciated. And for the record, I dont think you or Rep are Racist. But for the record saying Im not racist because one had nothing to do with slavery, and besides it was legal at the time. Well that would make one think that you are siding with what was legal over was was decent and humane. IM not asking any one living to say IM sorry for what happened in slavery, just to recognize that the mind set instilled during that time does still hold alot of weight on how minorities are treated today in this country.

 

[skinsdad62]

YOu know I actually agree with you that the majority of police officers are fine upstanding people. Hell Im friends with quite a few, and I have a son currently in the academy. But I also happen to think, its not just about the 123 shot, but more about the culturally accepted bias by not just white cops. Fuck I would rather be pulled over by ten white cops, than a white cop and a black cop riding together.

And for the record I dont think every white person, or even the majority of them are openly or even secretly racist. But I have a very hard time accepting the cry of Im not racist because I had nothing to do with slavery, but it was legal at the time.. so I should get over it. As @Stymietee pointed out, racism in this country has just slowly transformed from Segregation, Jim Crow, to James Crow Esq to our current state. See to me its not about the 123 guys who got shot, because by and large most of them DID in fact do something to get it to that level. My beef is that the ones who DIDNT do anything to get to that level, ended up shot as well.

well like i said buddy , i can only treat you with dignity and respect and i will have your back physically and/or spiritually if you arent treated like you should be . that is all i can do to help

 

[gkekoa]

Greatly appreciated. And for the record, I dont think you or Rep are Racist. But for the record saying Im not racist because one had nothing to do with slavery, and besides it was legal at the time. Well that would make one think that you are siding with what was legal over was was decent and humane. IM not asking any one living to say IM sorry for what happened in slavery, just to recognize that the mind set instilled during that time does still hold alot of weight on how minorities are treated today in this country.

I have never said I wasn't racist because I didn't own slaves. That is the feeling some get with this "white privilege" stuff.

I do not find slavery in the US to be a stain though. Every country in the history of the world has had it. It was a fact of life. Every race has been enslaved and every race has owned slaves. If anything, America got rid of slavery quicker than every country before it and has done more for equality than any society ever.

 

[Sharkinva]

well like i said buddy , i can only treat you with dignity and respect and i will have your back physically and/or spiritually if you arent treated like you should be . that is all i can do to help

Pretty sure you already know where i stand as far as you and most of the guys around here are concerned. Even the ones who I disagree with, I respect their opinion.

 

[Sharkinva]

I have never said I wasn't racist because I didn't own slaves. That is the feeling some get with this "white privilege" stuff.

I do not find slavery in the US to be a stain though. Every country in the history of the world has had it. It was a fact of life. Every race has been enslaved and every race has owned slaves. If anything, America got rid of slavery quicker than every country before it and has done more for equality than any society ever.

Slavery in and of itself was just a blip. I really do agree that you or any one else should not today feel guilty for what happened hundreds of years ago. But just as I would step up and defend you or your child if I saw or suspected some black guy (even one I knew) were doing harm to you for no other reason than your Skins color. I hope that some day, my kids or great grand kids (should I ever have them) would never have to question.. did I not get that job, or did I get a shitty loan rate, or was I stopped.. for no other reason than my awesome genetic tan.

 

[Sportster 72]

dad you aren't the only white guy that had that happen. I have been handcuffed (detained) for things I didn't do. I have been arrested for things I did do. But I never gave a cop a reason to get pissed off at me. Okay let me rephrase I never did it and got caught.

Now what difference might there be. Us white guys have no platform. People will laugh and say you probably deserved it.

Now my brother got arrested a bunch of times. Every time he cooperated drunk, high or whatever he was treated okay. But if he got out of hand they might have whipped his ass a little. My comment .... "don't give the cops a reason to beat your ass." I have had cops thank me for not giving them a hard time.

Is every situation fair. Hell no. Do some cops get out of hand, of course. I too know a lot of cops. Most are cool, some are dicks.

I can tell a million stories but I do not think anyone is gong to change their mind if I did. So I will let you all get back to your social arguments. I said when Kaep did it and will say it again. You can sit, kneel, do cartwheels or whatever you want. This form of protest is not going to work. I still agree with Jim Brown, protesting is fine .... Kaep chose a poor vehicle. I think trying to force it is not going to end well for anyone of any color. Sad but true.

 

[Sportster 72]

And my last comment is to echo what Ringo says "Peace and Love."

 

[Sharkinva]

And my last comment is to echo what Ringo says "Peace and Love."

Wasnt Ringo high at the time though??

 

[Sharkinva]

dad you aren't the only white guy that had that happen. I have been handcuffed (detained) for things I didn't do. I have been arrested for things I did do. But I never gave a cop a reason to get pissed off at me. Okay let me rephrase I never did it and got caught.

Now what difference might there be. Us white guys have no platform. People will laugh and say you probably deserved it.

Now my brother got arrested a bunch of times. Every time he cooperated drunk, high or whatever he was treated okay. But if he got out of hand they might have whipped his ass a little. My comment .... "don't give the cops a reason to beat your ass." I have had cops thank me for not giving them a hard time.

Is every situation fair. Hell no. Do some cops get out of hand, of course. I too know a lot of cops. Most are cool, some are dicks.

I can tell a million stories but I do not think anyone is gong to change their mind if I did. So I will let you all get back to your social arguments. I said when Kaep did it and will say it again. You can sit, kneel, do cartwheels or whatever you want. This form of protest is not going to work. I still agree with Jim Brown, protesting is fine .... Kaep chose a poor vehicle. I think trying to force it is not going to end well for anyone of any color. Sad but true.

As I have said before, I dont expect any one to have an Ah Ha moment from anything said on these boards.. be it sports, politics, religion or any other subject. But the fact that we are even HAVING this conversation to me is a positive. Because I freely admit, at the age of 15 I thought all cops were pigs, and most caucasians in this country were of the Cross burning hood wearing variety. Now I know better. And I would HOPE that even if it doesnt change ones mind completely, maybe the next time they see a 6"4" brother with tats wearing Super Tims and driving a tricked out truck... its not assumed he is some sort of thug either.