Phins Suspend Richie Incognito

[element1286]

So anything in the locker room is fair game as long as it's kept in house, and solved by 'knock the other guy out' gotcha, or to call the cops.

 

[wiskyisgood12]

I think most accept "rookie hazing," but I think this goes so far beyond any line. Maybe the NFL and the NFLPA need to look at rookie hazing, to prevent anything like this happening. At some point you have to be professional, and treat your teammates with some level of respect. Everyone has to the be pulling the rope in the same direction, and if Icognito was doing it to Jonathan Martin why shouldn't anyone believe that Icognito wasn't doing it to others as well?

You have to be an adult and stop the stupid High School crap. Unfortunately Icognito seems to be stuck in High School.

 

[Jakology]

Read through the entire thread, and am saddened. To you guys saying negative things about Martin, you are insensitive pricks, and go fuck yourselves. We don't know the entire story yet. We don't even know what kind of problems Martin has. He could struggle with depression or something like that. You guys need to back up and take the situation for what it is and wait it out.

To the Dolphins organization, fuck you guys as well for letting all this bullshit happen. Makes me sick that I'm a fan of you right now. Get your shit straight.

 

[cdumler7]

I'm sorry, and I know this is a particularly sore topic on this board, but when somebody kills themselves, it is their choice. Nobody kills themselves because of bullying. Bullying might make somebody's life worse, but so do a lot of things. Saying a decision to kill oneself is because of bullying misses the complexity of human life and death and is sort of infantilizing to the dead. There are outlets out there for everybody to solve any bullying problems. And i'm sorry, but most police departments and individuals are OVERreactive of bullying, not the contrary. The only thing statements like that are doing is sending a norm that it normal, hell even heroic, to react to simple bullying with death.

I am with BearDown here. The "anything people do because of bullying is rational because bullying is evil" bullshit needs to stop. There is a wrong way to handle bullying. And Martin seems like the classic example.

This especially worries me in a sports sense where psychology is so important. Maybe Incognito is a douche because he is one of those people that thrives on a "me versus the world" rationale. If this hurts the team (as it likely did), they have every right to suspend him. But I fear a world where our athletes are told to be completely streamlined because that is politically correct. It's the type of attitude that leads to situations like they have in Europe where people are kicked off Olympic teams for their (perfectly rational) beliefs. We obviously aren't there yet, but the slippery slope scares the shit out of me.

To say that schools and police departments are overreactive in these kind of situations just doesn't quite line up with all of the news reports of parents going to the school boards, teachers, principals, and such over and over again being met with sorry we don't see anything. Police departments have their hands tied some in they need physical evidence or witnesses to do a whole lot and I don't see RI teammates turning against him because he is so unstable. So is bullying a reason to kill oneself...NO but when someone feels like they are at the end of their rope then death begins to look very welcoming. I work with people all the time that have tried to commit suicide in counseling and usually it is not the first thing they go to to solve the problem. Usually they have tried other outlets to try and solve the problem but nothing seems to work so they just reach a point mentally where they just can't take it anymore.

From the sound of this situation he did go to find help but was met with a cold shoulder. He probably should have pushed for other avenues but from looking at the VM and Texts that have come out RI was being very threatening so there is no telling how far he took the threats of possibly life or loved ones. That kind of fear can cause a person to not want to go tell the authorities especially when dealing with someone as unstable as RI. He has a past history of showing he can react in violence towards someone who makes him angry. Say the police do some investigating into it but figure out there is not enough evidence to do a whole lot at that time as I have seen happen over and over in Bullying type situations (we live in a broken system). This then causes the bully to escalate things to a whole different level out of anger. RI is definitely the type that would escalate a situation.

 

[StanMarsh51]

Obviously I don't know the details but these are grown men. Stick up for yourself. Somebody is going above and beyond with their antagonizing, say something. If they are relentless say listen asshole, cross the line one more time and I'm knocking your teeth down your fucking throat. Boom, problem solved.

A lot easier said than done, especially if Incognito had others in the locker room who'd throw down for him (he's been there what, 4 years, so he's likely got buddies in that clubhouse who would help him beat the crap out of Martin if Martin tried to fight back).

 

[element1286]

I'm sorry, and I know this is a particularly sore topic on this board, but when somebody kills themselves, it is their choice. Nobody kills themselves because of bullying. Bullying might make somebody's life worse, but so do a lot of things. Saying a decision to kill oneself is because of bullying misses the complexity of human life and death and is sort of infantilizing to the dead. There are outlets out there for everybody to solve any bullying problems. And i'm sorry, but most police departments and individuals are OVERreactive of bullying, not the contrary. The only thing statements like that are doing is sending a norm that it normal, hell even heroic, to react to simple bullying with death.

I am with BearDown here. The "anything people do because of bullying is rational because bullying is evil" bullshit needs to stop. There is a wrong way to handle bullying. And Martin seems like the classic example.

I'm inclined to agree with the bolded section about ending it, although suicide is so incomprehensible to most people I can't honestly say we know whats going on.

Anyway, do we actually know he tried to commit suicide because of the bullying? Or maybe he has addiction and suicide problems in the past, and Incognito was the type to prey on any perceived weakness.

This especially worries me in a sports sense where psychology is so important. Maybe Incognito is a douche because he is one of those people that thrives on a "me versus the world" rationale. If this hurts the team (as it likely did), they have every right to suspend him. But I fear a world where our athletes are told to be completely streamlined because that is politically correct. It's the type of attitude that leads to situations like they have in Europe where people are kicked off Olympic teams for their (perfectly rational) beliefs. We obviously aren't there yet, but the slippery slope scares the shit out of me.

Are you seriously trying to defend Incognito? If what came out is true, there is literally nothing, absolutely nothing to defend. He may be a douche for whatever damn reason he wants, maybe he was bullied, but that attitude doesn't give him the excuse to act like a douche and threaten anyone he wants with impunity.

 

[beardown07]

I think the failure of the Dolphins organization to do anything is the biggest aspect of the story.

 

[NinerSickness]

Also reports of racially charged and threatening texts and voicemails.

I understand "racially charged," which is more like being an asshole than "bullying," but I don't understand "threatening." What could a 300 pound dickhead to another 300 pound guy and get away with it with the spotlight of the NFL shining on him?

 

[cdumler7]

I'm inclined to agree with the bolded section about ending it, although suicide is so incomprehensible to most people I can't honestly say we know whats going on.

Anyway, do we actually know he tried to commit suicide because of the bullying? Or maybe he has addiction and suicide problems in the past, and Incognito was the type to prey on any perceived weakness.



Are you seriously trying to defend Incognito? If what came out is true, there is literally nothing, absolutely nothing to defend. He may be a douche for whatever damn reason he wants, maybe he was bullied, but that attitude doesn't give him the excuse to act like a douche and threaten anyone he wants with impunity.

I don't think there was anything about him trying to commit suicide just that he was fed up with it and walked out. I was just commenting towards the poster that said that somebody committing suicide is their choice. Which yes in the simplest form it is their choice. To say that though is completely ignoring the full picture of what has happened to a person to have reached a point that their thought is the only way out of a situation is taking their own life. It is their choice but others most likely have pushed them to that point.

Now to the situation at hand honestly I think Martin did well to handle it the way he did in the end in just walking away. He could have acted out in violence which as some have said RI is not the most stable guy around and probably would have acted back and possibly more after the fight would be over. Throw in RI had other players participating in this with him so who is to say it wouldn't have turned into Martin vs the rest of the OL kind of fight. Then throw in the team dynamic of how then do you stay on that team after getting in a fight? IT sounds like Martin tried to seek help from others but was met with a cold shoulder so he took it all as long as he could but everybody and I mean everybody has a breaking point. Now could Martin's be quicker than others...Yes. That doesn't excuse the fact that for 2 years Martin has been bullied, threatened, and what I would considered robbed by these other players.

 

[MrMoJoRisin63]

Never ceases to amaze me how many internet tough guys we have here. It's likely most of the posters acting as if this is no big deal and dismissing it with comments like, man up or this happens all the time are probably real life cowards. Men who know they are emotionally or physically tough needn't express it. Hazing at any level is asinine, if this is a team then act like a team seperating a person or people does not promote camraderie.

 

[beardown07]

^^^I don't think anybody disagrees with that.


I just think there is confusion as to why it took so long to take allegedly, necessary measures. There are plenty of avenues in the NFL and beyond, that at some point you would think he would've explored.

That, and it just kinda sounds dumb?? 400 lb. adult, male, millionaire...bullied. It's kinda hard to wrap your head around it?


Also, (and not aimed at the quoted poster), it reeks of hypocrisy, when some of you shout insensitivity from the rooftops, then follow it with vitriolic nonsense aimed at a person for having an alternate perspective of something.

 

[element1286]

I don't think there was anything about him trying to commit suicide just that he was fed up with it and walked out. I was just commenting towards the poster that said that somebody committing suicide is their choice. Which yes in the simplest form it is their choice. To say that though is completely ignoring the full picture of what has happened to a person to have reached a point that their thought is the only way out of a situation is taking their own life. It is their choice but others most likely have pushed them to that point.

Now to the situation at hand honestly I think Martin did well to handle it the way he did in the end in just walking away. He could have acted out in violence which as some have said RI is not the most stable guy around and probably would have acted back and possibly more after the fight would be over. Throw in RI had other players participating in this with him so who is to say it wouldn't have turned into Martin vs the rest of the OL kind of fight. Then throw in the team dynamic of how then do you stay on that team after getting in a fight? IT sounds like Martin tried to seek help from others but was met with a cold shoulder so he took it all as long as he could but everybody and I mean everybody has a breaking point. Now could Martin's be quicker than others...Yes. That doesn't excuse the fact that for 2 years Martin has been bullied, threatened, and what I would considered robbed by these other players.

I was reading deadspin, and there are rumors that Martin has drug problems en such, I wouldn't be shocked if he had problems coming in, and Incognito's harassment has just made them worse. Although I agree, if he went to the Fins, and they did nothing, I can't see much else besides filing a grievance with the union, although unions are usually worthless with that type of stuff.

But yea, if Incognito is a team leader, there is a huge problem.

 

[element1286]

^^^I don't think anybody disagrees with that.


I just think there is confusion as to why it took so long to take allegedly, necessary measures. There are plenty of avenues in the NFL and beyond, that at some point you would think he would've explored.

That, and it just kinda sounds dumb?? 400 lb. adult, male, millionaire...bullied. It's kinda hard to wrap your head around it?


It reeks of hypocrisy, when some of you shout insensitivity from the rooftops, then follow it with vitriolic nonsense aimed at a person for having an alternate perspective of something.

I'm not sure why that is so hard to comprehend.

 

[cdumler7]

^^^I don't think anybody disagrees with that.


I just think there is confusion as to why it took so long to take allegedly, necessary measures. There are plenty of avenues in the NFL and beyond, that at some point you would think he would've explored.

That, and it just kinda sounds dumb?? 400 lb. adult, male, millionaire...bullied. It's kinda hard to wrap your head around it?


Also, (and not aimed at the quoted poster), it reeks of hypocrisy, when some of you shout insensitivity from the rooftops, then follow it with vitriolic nonsense aimed at a person for having an alternate perspective of something.

First off he is not a 400 lb adult but closer to 300 lb. adult being threatened by another person of equal size. If this was a 150 lb. guy threatening him like this I would be more understanding towards your view point. Second RI has a history of violent outbursts so when he says things like "I'm going to kill you and your family" I would be more inclined to actually take his threats seriously. My guess is at some point RI told him that if he said anything to anybody else that he would follow through on these threats. That is how you control somebody even the size of Martin for that long. Say Martin takes that threat to the Police. The best they can do in a situation like that is get a restraining order. Do you think that is really going to do much to keep RI from actually following through with his threats? In fact it would probably escalate his anger to the point that he would respond in some way. Throw in then bringing this kind of action about then would probably anger his teammates and separate him even more from the pack for telling on another teammate. Martin was/is in a lose/lose situation and acted in the only way he saw out and that was to just walk away.

 

[BritishDolfan]

I think most accept "rookie hazing," but I think this goes so far beyond any line.

Exactly. There is a huge difference between rookie hazing (although I'm not a fan of it personally) and what Incognito has allegedly done here. Racism and making threats, however serious, against people's families don't have a place anywhere.

Also:

 

[element1286]

^That happened fast.

 

[Ironbreaker]

I say the Raiders go after him.

 

[RobToxin]

This is also the nature of the NFL:

Someone will pick him up.

 

[wiskyisgood12]

I'm not saying this with absolute certainty, but I'd guess bullying has never been much of a problem for Jonathan Martin. Rather than solve this issue with a physical confrontation and potentially make things worse for himself, he sought out management of the team to hopefully help. From what I've understood the situation didn't get better.

I'm someone who recently graduated college who wants to be a teacher and am a substitute teacher now. In education classes we spent a great deal of time discussing bullying. One of the points the professor consistently made was no matter what, if a student comes to you talking about how they've been bullied you have to take it seriously. Now, I don't know if the Dolphins took it seriously, but if they did, Icognito didn't take the Dolphins seriously.

 

[beardown07]

I'm not sure why that is so hard to comprehend.

Well...I guess if I was a 400 lb. adult, male millionaire...I wouldn't really give a fuck about being bullied? I guess I'd sit at my own lunch table next to a big bag of money. And if it became physical, I would take a stand, or involve law enforcement, (if deemed that serious). I'm sure a high profile pro football player might be taken seriously by the police.

I just don't get the mindset to allow this to happen for as long as it allegedly did?