PEDs were not the main reason for offensive numbers.

[RobBase]

Steroids in 1968 compared to modern day juice is apples to oranges. Just look at bbrs from then compared to modern day ones.

 

[Shanemansj13]

I see your point about expansion and the about ballparks, and I think that had a good part in it. But I still think roids was the MAIN reason.

 

[DaBoltsNIsles]

I see your point about expansion and the about ballparks, and I think that had a good part in it. But I still think roids was the MAIN reason.

PEDS were a big reason. 60 homers isn't the benchmark. For me it's 50 during that time. Brady Anderson hit 50 HR's in a season for the Orioles. I knew he had to be doing something & he certainly wasn't the only one.

 

[Liberal Icon]

Sammy Sosa hit 36 home runs in 162 games in 1997 and had never hit more than 40 which he had done only once and then all of a sudden he hits 60 or more 3 of the next 4 years?

Bonds hit more than 49 home runs once and it was 73 in 2001 and he hit more than 40 the next three seasons while averaging less than 400 ab's a year during that stretch.

Yeah it was expansion.

By this logic do we take it that Babe Ruth was taking steroids? Unless you can say that Babe Ruth was superhuman, the like that we have never seen before , your above assertion completely breaks down. How do you think George Herman Ruth went from 29 home runs to 54 the following year and then 60 in 1927 that stood for 3 decades?

 

[steveringo]

 

[ImSmartherThanYou]

There's a photo of Ivan Rodriguez that is the most shocking to me. I haven't been able to find it for years, but it was completely undoctored and scary. It was taken around 1998/1999. He was so unbelievably bloated, he was almost unrecognizable.

He was in the batter's box preparing to get into his stance holding his bat in front of him, looking up to the tip of the bat. Blue jersey, blue helmet. Forearms clearly visible. It was just shocking when you look at that picture and then look at his rookie card, and then pictures from late in his career. He was three different people.

 

[Broncosballer32]

I am sorry, is someone thinking I said steroids or PEDs played no factor? Where did I say that?

I said they were not the MAIN REASON for the offensive spike in the mid to late 90s.

I said baseball expansion, livened balls, and smaller parks played a bigger role in it than PEDs. Number ONE, I maintain now that PEDs were being taken by baseball players longer than the mid 90s. Certainly they did not start taking them in 1998. That is for sure.

So, what factor caused the offensive EXPLOSION in 1998?

I asked this question to illustrate the point. Why did 3 different players break Maris's record all in the National League 6 different times in a 3 year span? Are we suggesting the AL players did not take them? They were taking them too, as illustrated by photos you have provided.

Baseball players are still taking PEDs, and yet we have not seen anyone really get that close to 61 HRs let alone 73, 70 or 66 since 2001.

What is the reason for that again? Have any guesses?

That magical year of 1998 was the last expansion. Plus, interleague play began in 1997, where the one team in the AL that did expand also effected the NL. Plus, Bud Selig mysteriously moved his team from the AL to the NL in 1998. Which gave the NL two more teams than the AL and 4 new teams since 1993, compared the ONE team in the AL. Not to mention one of those teams being Colorado with the thin air.

Again, people think I am saying PEDs played NO ROLE. Well, they did. However, there were bigger factors and MLB really wanted that 61 record to go down. Baseball certainly made concerted efforts to push those offensive numbers. From making commercials pushing that chicks love the long ball. I also believe they shrunk the strike zone. Almost the exact opposite of what baseball did in the 60s during the second dead ball era.

 

[steveringo]

I am sorry, is someone thinking I said steroids or PEDs played no factor? Where did I say that?

I said they were not the MAIN REASON for the offensive spike in the mid to late 90s.

I said baseball expansion, livened balls, and smaller parks played a bigger role in it than PEDs. Number ONE, I maintain now that PEDs were being taken by baseball players longer than the mid 90s. Certainly they did not start taking them in 1998. That is for sure.

So, what factor caused the offensive EXPLOSION in 1998?

I asked this question to illustrate the point. Why did 3 different players break Maris's record all in the National League 6 different times in a 3 year span? Are we suggesting the AL players did not take them? They were taking them too, as illustrated by photos you have provided.

Baseball players are still taking PEDs, and yet we have not seen anyone really get that close to 61 HRs let alone 73, 70 or 66 since 2001.

What is the reason for that again? Have any guesses?

That magical year of 1998 was the last expansion. Plus, interleague play began in 1997, where the one team in the AL that did expand also effected the NL. Plus, Bud Selig mysteriously moved his team from the AL to the NL in 1998. Which gave the NL two more teams than the AL and 4 new teams since 1993, compared the ONE team in the AL. Not to mention one of those teams being Colorado with the thin air.

Again, people think I am saying PEDs played NO ROLE. Well, they did. However, there were bigger factors and MLB really wanted that 61 record to go down. Baseball certainly made concerted efforts to push those offensive numbers. From making commercials pushing that chicks love the long ball. I also believe they shrunk the strike zone. Almost the exact opposite of what baseball did in the 60s during the second dead ball era.

Nah, we hear you. Pictures of bloated players sells more than pictures of smaller parks and waterred down rosters...

And most realize steroids have been around for a long time... Heck, I did a science report in HS (in 1988) about steroids and the Bash Brothers were my exhibits A & B....

 

[ImSmartherThanYou]

Nah, we hear you. Pictures of bloated players sells more than pictures of smaller parks and waterred down rosters...

And most realize steroids have been around for a long time... Heck, I did a science report in HS (in 1988) about steroids and the Bash Brothers were my exhibits A & B....

And I remember a lot of funny snickers and whispers about the 1987 season as well, in particular the Twins and Gary Gaetti.

The 1993 Phillies as well, with renowned and obvious juicer Lenny Dykstra.

 

[Nosferatu]

By this logic do we take it that Babe Ruth was taking steroids? Unless you can say that Babe Ruth was superhuman, the like that we have never seen before , your above assertion completely breaks down. How do you think George Herman Ruth went from 29 home runs to 54 the following year and then 60 in 1927 that stood for 3 decades?

Try looking at the whole picture. He hit 29 then 54 but he was just getting started, he was 24 and 25 years old and he would go on to have other seasons with huge numbers. Sosa went from a career high of 40 to 66 the year he turned 30. Bonds never hit 50 then at age 36 he goes for 73, yeah thats the same...

Nice try though.

 

[Broncosballer32]

Try looking at the whole picture. He hit 29 then 54 but he was just getting started, he was 24 and 25 years old and he would go on to have other seasons with huge numbers. Sosa went from a career high of 40 to 66 the year he turned 30. Bonds never hit 50 then at age 36 he goes for 73, yeah thats the same...

Nice try though.

Really, I cannot tell what your whole point is. Are you saying players no longer use PEDs and have not used them since 2001, and did not use them before 1998?

If that is not what you believe, then with your best, in depth explanation explain to me and all us why the HR numbers have not come close to 61 let alone 73, 70, or 66 since 2001?

So, to summarize. You keep bringing up Sosa and point out his numbers and how he never had 40 hrs before and then all of a sudden he hit 66.

Well, if it is ALL BECAUSE OF ROIDS and you believe ROIDS have been used since, and they were used before, then why have the HR numbers not been the same since 2001?

 

[Nosferatu]

Well, if it is ALL BECAUSE OF ROIDS and you believe ROIDS have been used since, and they were used before, then why have the HR numbers not been the same since 2001?

Whats the name of YOUR thread? PED's were not the main reason for the numbers.

I simply disagree, I believe they are the MAIN reason. Explain to me why only the known PED users broke the record? Why weren't all the home run hitters who didn't use hitting 60+ home runs? If it was because of expansion why in 1993 did only 2 players hit more than 40? One of those teams was Colorado where lazy fly balls turned into home runs. If it was the juiced baseballs why weren't there more than 3 players hitting 50+ in the NL in 1998?

 

[Broncosballer32]

Whats the name of YOUR thread? PED's were not the main reason for the numbers.

I simply disagree, I believe they are the MAIN reason. Explain to me why only the known PED users broke the record? Why weren't all the home run hitters who didn't use hitting 60+ home runs? If it was because of expansion why in 1993 did only 2 players hit more than 40? One of those teams was Colorado where lazy fly balls turned into home runs. If it was the juiced baseballs why weren't there more than 3 players hitting 50+ in the NL in 1998?

You think Sosa, McGuire and Bonds were the only steroid users?

Not one player hit over 60 HRs since 1961 and only 2 in the history of baseball and then 3 players did it 6 different times in 3 years and he is asking why ONLY THREE PLAYERS DID IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Mean while there are actually people out there folks, and I did not really think this was possible that think there there were only THREE PLAYERS taking PEDs at that time.

You see what media HYPE has done? It actually convinces people of this.....

I am wondering why 60 HRs have not been reached since 2001, considering how many players were doing PEDs. BTW, that is well over 50%. Closer to 70 or 80 percent like Canseco said.


WOW.........


HE THINKS SOSA, MCGUIRE AND BONDS WERE THE ONLY KNOWN PED USERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Nosferatu]

HE THINKS SOSA, MCGUIRE AND BONDS WERE THE ONLY KNOWN PED USERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Show me where I said this. Oh and try answering my questions...

 

[Liberal Icon]

Try looking at the whole picture. He hit 29 then 54 but he was just getting started, he was 24 and 25 years old and he would go on to have other seasons with huge numbers. Sosa went from a career high of 40 to 66 the year he turned 30. Bonds never hit 50 then at age 36 he goes for 73, yeah thats the same...

Nice try though.

Okay, maybe a little perspective will clear the cobweb of steroids hysteria blinding you.

In 1919 Babe Ruth hit 29 home runs(140 games) to break Ned Williamson's 36 year old record of 27 home runs in 1884 (112 game schedule). Ruth broke his own record the following year by hitting 54 (154 games schedule) Clearly Ruth was aided in 1920 by an expanded schedule 154 from 140 the year before. Ruth was also helped by the increase in the coefficient of restitution of baseball making it rebound off the bat with higher velocity.

Oh, before you make a big deal about prime years and aging or "he was just getting started" guess how old Babe Ruth was when on May 25th at Forbes field in Pittsburg he hit an immeasurable home run that has never been recorded or seen before in the history of Forbes field. How many homeruns did you think he hit? I will leave you to think about it. Oh, and just for what is worth, in 1993 Barry Bonds hit 46 home runs with 539 at bats.Even if you take away the walks and OPS of a staggering 1.136 at Candlestick Park! and yes, 1993.

 

[Liberal Icon]

Maybe when you find a picture of any new player when he entered the league and 20 years later I am sure they will not be the same especially when the player in question is an exercise workaholic or players attest to his legendary exercise regimen like Barry bonds is famous for attested by a lot of his team mates.

 

[Broncosballer32]

Show me where I said this. Oh and try answering my questions...

First of all I bolded the part where you commented and asked why the only known PED users hit over 60HRs. That is where you said it.

Second, with your comment to 1993. I said expansion was the MAIN REASON, but I also listed LIVENED BALLS AND SMALLER BALL PARKS.

PLUS.....

in 1994 Matt Williams had hit 43 HRs in 112 games in that strike shorted season. He was certainly going to break 61 HRs. Often times offensive numbers tend to spike over several seasons after expansion. In the early 60s, baseball made a concerted effort to alleviate the offensive output cause all of controversy created by the NY media over the Maris record. Why do you suppose Frick put an asterisk on Maris's 61 and why do you suppose Maris died never knowing he owned the single season record.

Baseball, after 1961 (big expansion year) widened strike zones, and raised mounds. Hence, the second dead ball era that lasted through the 60s and many historians believe it lasted till 1976. Especially with the way the strike zone was called.

Third, I cannot tell. Are you saying no players did any PED prior to 1998? I think this is your claim. I cannot tell. How long do you think baseball players have been taking PEDs?

Also, when we are talking PEDs, we are talking about substances that enhances PERFORMANCE. Not just anabolic steroids or testosterone, but amphetamines as well. Those were certainly prevelant for decades before the 90s.

Look up the Sports Illustrated article in 1968 that discussed the usage of various PEDs by athletes, including baseball players.

Who do you suppose a Juan Marichal would be able to pitch an 18 inning game with no relief?

No proof, but.....I can certainly speculate. All sorts of drugs were certainly being used for adrenaline spikes. Not just in sports but also in every part of society. How long was Judy Garland hooked on these types of things that eventually killed her in 1969?

Anyway, to think that baseball players only started using them during this time is ridiculous. We will never know how much livened balls contributed as well. We know baseball was ALL IN on promoting the HR record and baseball made sure in every way that McGurie was going to chase down Maris. From Selig moving his team to the NL to give the NL two more teams. To interleague play which thinned out pitching that much more. To promoting chicks love the long ball. You do not think baseball livened balls?

 

[steveringo]

Maybe when you find a picture of any new player when he entered the league and 20 years later I am sure they will not be the same especially when the player in question is an exercise workaholic or players attest to his legendary exercise regimen like Barry bonds is famous for attested by a lot of his team mates.

I'm just here for comedy relief....


Wait... Did you just imply Barry Bonds just worked out really hard?

 

[Liberal Icon]

I'm just here for comedy relief....


Wait... Did you just imply Barry Bonds just worked out really hard?

Yes, and just to satiate any curiosity you may have in that area in case your ignorance on his exercise regimen is giving rise to your comic relief, those of us in the Bay Area are aware of that including the hypocrites in the media who detest him as well as the two San Francisco journalists who broke the BALCO story. You can ask any of his own teammates including those who later came to work with him and were also caught up in BALCO. Nobody worked any harder than Barry Bonds.

Do you think, you just take steroids and you become incredible Hulk without any strenuous exercise? Now you are getting comical.

 

[steveringo]

Yes, and just to satiate any curiosity you may have in that area in case your ignorance on his exercise regimen is giving rise to your comic relief, those of us in the Bay Area are aware of that including the hypocrites in the media who detest him as well as the two San Francisco journalists who broke the BALCO story. You can ask any of his own teammates including those who later came to work with him and were also caught up in BALCO. Nobody worked any harder than Barry Bonds.

Do you think, you just take steroids and you become incredible Hulk without any strenuous exercise? Now you are getting comical.

Oh, of couse not...

He obviosly worked out like a maniac while he was injecting. You can't get that huge without both.