Payton suspended a year

[Arete Tzu]

You are kidding yourself if you think anyone would watch if they went to flags instead of tackling. It is the violence that attracts the fans.

Of course flag football would lose people, it would be seen as the ultimate pussification of the sport, but there is no reason to go to that extreme to make a point. It's possible to have hard hits and tackles without crossing the line into meathead bullshit. I believe there is a difference in hitting someone so hard they become afraid to go your direction, and intentionally trying to end their season with dirty bullshit. Twisting peoples heads, taking out knees, stomping on people while they are down, I've never watched football for that type of bullshit, and won't miss it if it goes away. I personally find it dishonorable.

 

[TobyTyler]

Of course flag football would lose people, it would be seen as the ultimate pussification of the sport, but there is no reason to go to that extreme to make a point. It's possible to have hard hits and tackles without crossing the line into meathead bullshit. I believe there is a difference in hitting someone so hard they become afraid to go your direction, and intentionally trying to end their season with dirty bullshit. Twisting peoples heads, taking out knees, stomping on people while they are down, I've never watched football for that type of bullshit, and won't miss it if it goes away. I personally find it dishonorable.

Me too. But I didn't find what the Saints were doing to be that. All the clips I saw were just big solid hits; not the intentional attempts at injury like we saw from Harrison or Suh. Every team wants to hit the opposing QB so hard that he is knocked out of the game. I don't think samll bounties between a group of guys caused them to play any differently than they would have otherwise. I do agree though that something had to be done once it was officially condoned by Saints leadership.

 

[tallglassofwater007]

[/B]

I cannot believe that. As I said, if they went to flags you'd probably see even more skill and strategy but CBS wouldn't be paying billions of dollars to televise the games if they did. I guarantee it is the violence that sells just like with this new ultimate fighting nonsense. No one admires the skill of a boxer anymore. They want to see someone get crushed.

You are speaking of general public and casual spectators...not of fans. Fans of boxing admire the skills of boxers. Just like fans of racing aren't watching for the crashes. Look at the Bama/LSU title game. Third lowest rated title game. Because it was hard hitting defensive football. Sure, we like to see big hits, but nobody is cheering when you see a guy get hurt. Offenses are getting better and better as TV ratings are growing every year. This is not a coincidence. The NFL isn't flag football. You are trying to make that point but it doesn't fit. If you make it flag football it is no longer the NFL. You are changing the entire game so that point doesn't fit.

And MMA (the nonsense you speak of) is regulating the violence and getting more and more popular as they allow less. Yes, people want to see a fight finished (just like boxing) but fans aren't wanting guys to be hurt. You admire a guys skills on the ground or standing up. When you understand it, you appreciate it. I can tell by you calling it nonsense, that you don't understand it. I have trained Muay Thai and other forms of martial arts for the better part of my life I can assure you it is anything but "nonsense."

 

[TobyTyler]

You are speaking of general public and casual spectators...not of fans. Fans of boxing admire the skills of boxers. Just like fans of racing aren't watching for the crashes. Look at the Bama/LSU title game. Third lowest rated title game. Because it was hard hitting defensive football. Sure, we like to see big hits, but nobody is cheering when you see a guy get hurt. Offenses are getting better and better as TV ratings are growing every year. This is not a coincidence. The NFL isn't flag football. You are trying to make that point but it doesn't fit. If you make it flag football it is no longer the NFL. You are changing the entire game so that point doesn't fit.

And MMA (the nonsense you speak of) is regulating the violence and getting more and more popular as they allow less. Yes, people want to see a fight finished (just like boxing) but fans aren't wanting guys to be hurt. You admire a guys skills on the ground or standing up. When you understand it, you appreciate it. I can tell by you calling it nonsense, that you don't understand it. I have trained Muay Thai and other forms of martial arts for the better part of my life I can assure you it is anything but "nonsense."

It is the general public and the casual fan that brings in all the money to the NFL and the exact demographic the NFL is attempting to bring in with the violence. How many commercials have you seen where they string together bone jarring hits as opposed to the clips of the skill it takes for two offensive linemen to rotate off their men and successfully pick up a blitz? The NFL already knows they've got the "fans" hooked. They don't need to suck you in. They need to suck in the general public and casual fan who need the violence to remain interested. Sorry if I offended you about the type of fighting you enjoy.

 

[DoobieKeebler]

I'd imagine the Saints will hand the interim keys to Tom Coughlin's old buddy Spags, who will be able to lean on his experience as the Rams HC.

 

[Ray_Dogg]

I read they are handing the keys over to Carmichael the OC.

 

[h-hour]

It is the general public and the casual fan that brings in all the money to the NFL and the exact demographic the NFL is attempting to bring in with the violence. How many commercials have you seen where they string together bone jarring hits as opposed to the clips of the skill it takes for two offensive linemen to rotate off their men and successfully pick up a blitz? The NFL already knows they've got the "fans" hooked. They don't need to suck you in. They need to suck in the general public and casual fan who need the violence to remain interested. Sorry if I offended you about the type of fighting you enjoy.

Meh theres more clips in commercials of big passing plays or running plays..mostly quarterback footage.

I pointed it out in another post in this thread (and Im surprised I didnt get cussed out for it..sorry I let my emotions get the best of me from time to time) is that the nfl tries to sell the 'feel good' story to the casual fans. The saints were one of these 'feel good' stories. I was floored when I saw the punishments handed down to day based off that fact alone.

 

[wartyOne]

Meh theres more clips in commercials of big passing plays or running plays..mostly quarterback footage.

I pointed it out in another post in this thread (and Im surprised I didnt get cussed out for it..sorry I let my emotions get the best of me from time to time) is that the nfl tries to sell the 'feel good' story to the casual fans. The saints were one of these 'feel good' stories. I was floored when I saw the punishments handed down to day based off that fact alone.

I for one am glad that the Saints are reaping this punishment. They've gotten more than enough goodwill from the league since 2005, and this is how they chose to abuse it.

I don't feel bad for any of them.

 

[tallglassofwater007]

It is the general public and the casual fan that brings in all the money to the NFL and the exact demographic the NFL is attempting to bring in with the violence. How many commercials have you seen where they string together bone jarring hits as opposed to the clips of the skill it takes for two offensive linemen to rotate off their men and successfully pick up a blitz? The NFL already knows they've got the "fans" hooked. They don't need to suck you in. They need to suck in the general public and casual fan who need the violence to remain interested. Sorry if I offended you about the type of fighting you enjoy.

It's all good man. I just get defensive because it is one of my biggest passions in life. I was trained very traditionally and there is a whole other side to fighting that most people don't know unless they train themselves, and I am defensive about it because with it's growing popularity and so many douchebags and guys who just want to fight....that part of it is getting lost. The best way to sum it up is that it is something I love, and then one day a UFC event was on tv and Paris Hilton was there. I died a little.

But about the NFL.... sure they might not show the O-line, but they sure as hell plaster a star QB all over everything. You might see a few big hits in a commercial, but for every one of those there are two of a guy tossing a great pass following the spiral into the receivers hands or weaving in and out of defenders. There is a reason the most popular guys (commercially) are QBs and receivers.

 

[TobyTyler]

It's all good man. I just get defensive because it is one of my biggest passions in life. I was trained very traditionally and there is a whole other side to fighting that most people don't know unless they train themselves, and I am defensive about it because with it's growing popularity and so many douchebags and guys who just want to fight....that part of it is getting lost. The best way to sum it up is that it is something I love, and then one day a UFC event was on tv and Paris Hilton was there. I died a little.

But about the NFL.... sure they might not show the O-line, but they sure as hell plaster a star QB all over everything. You might see a few big hits in a commercial, but for every one of those there are two of a guy tossing a great pass following the spiral into the receivers hands or weaving in and out of defenders. There is a reason the most popular guys (commercially) are QBs and receivers.

That is what I meant to express. For traditionalists, I get that there is a lot more to it than the physical aspect of it for you. That's cool.

 

[Flyingiguana]

owned

 

[TobyTyler]

owned

Don't feel bad. It happens to the best of us

 

[Southern9er]

thats insane.....the owners should just get rid of goodell

I think Goodell should lay down this kind of punishment more often...and treat the players to it as well...This is the direction the NFL needs to go in gain back public trust and image...

 

[RedneckNiner]

I think Payton an Williams should both be banned for life. They promoted a system to pay players to physically injure other players that could cost those players their careers. Usually I think Goodell is a mix between der furher and vince mcmahon but on this occasion I think he let the Saints off light.

 

[Flyingiguana]

I think Payton an Williams should both be banned for life. They promoted a system to pay players to physically injure other players that could cost those players their careers. Usually I think Goodell is a mix between der furher and vince mcmahon but on this occasion I think he let the Saints off light.

yup, he needed to make an example of these two. i think the current punishment will most likely be more than enough to deter other coaches from participating in this kind of stuff.

 

[wartyOne]

I think Goodell should lay down this kind of punishment more often...and treat the players to it as well...This is the direction the NFL needs to go in gain back public trust and image...

It's on its way. Once the NFLPA finishes their investigation, look for careers to end. Not because of "cart offs."

Vilma is going to be in a world of hurt. I wouldn't be surprised if criminal charges are brought against him. If I were Favre or Warner, I'd be pressing charges and suing the piss out of the Saints, Williams, Payton, and individual players.

 

[TobyTyler]

It's on its way. Once the NFLPA finishes their investigation, look for careers to end. Not because of "cart offs."

Vilma is going to be in a world of hurt. I wouldn't be surprised if criminal charges are brought against him. If I were Favre or Warner, I'd be pressing charges and suing the piss out of the Saints, Williams, Payton, and individual players.

That is not going to happen. They will protect the fraternity. Its funny how different real life is from sports. In the world if you offered someone 10 grand to beat up your competititon so he couldn't compete for your job you'd be going away for a long time. In sports, they just say "oh, that's the way it is, boys being boys"

 

[clyde_carbon]

One of the most ridiculous, over excessive punishments I've ever seen. Absolutely disgusting that Roger Goodell let pussies in the media dictate how harsh he needed to come down on Payton and the Saints.

Two 2nd rounds pick and a Greg Williams suspension should've been enough.

 

[spacedoodoopistol]

It does seem pretty damn excessive for Payton. If they came out with everything they had against him, and there was no more to it, I'd say he got screwed. There is no precedent for anything like this, so really there's no way to make a case what the penalty should be, but seems like every time Goodell goes over the top. I think he's willing to step on people, fair or not, to protect the league's interests.

Really, there are some similarities to the Vick situation....in both cases, its something that most people acknowledge was a lot more widespread, and seen as somewhat normal from the inside......but one particularly egregious guy (or group in this case) got caught, looks terrible from the outside, the public goes crazy and the NFL goes nuclear to make an example of the perps.

 

[NinerSickness]

One of the most ridiculous, over excessive punishments I've ever seen. Absolutely disgusting that Roger Goodell let pussies in the media dictate how harsh he needed to come down on Payton and the Saints.

Two 2nd rounds pick and a Greg Williams suspension should've been enough.

Wrong wrong wrong. They're not just being punished for the bounty issue; they're being punushed for illegal non-contract payments AND lying to NFL investigators. Goodell would've been the pussy had he handed out a weak punishment.