Paul Goldschmidt

[StanMarsh51]

Since 2012 Goldy has been more productive than Posey, Cano & Beltre despite missing 2 months last season.

And out of the those four players, which one plays the least valuable defensive position? It's Goldschmidt of course.

A catcher with Posey's numbers or a 2B with Cano's numbers for example is certainly worth more than/more valuable than a 1B with Goldschmidt's numbers. Position is why guys like Pedroia, Kent, Ivan Rodriguez, Ripken all have MVPs in years where they certainly didn't have the best numbers.

Just looking at the Posey comparison: since the start of 2012, Posey has a 148 OPS+ and Goldschmidt has a 151 OPS+. The fact that Posey plays the most demanding position where offense is scare and Goldschmidt plays the least demanding position where offense is generally the highest should more than override that gap in offense.

 

[Lions=TeHsUcKs]

Thanks for echoing my thoughts StanMarsh.. It's why I probably would put Miggy barely in the top 5 even in his MPV years.. Right now, Miggy is probably top 10 or 15 at best even though he also plays a solid 1st base..

 

[The Derski]

I'd put him somewhere in the top 10 position players, but probably not in the top 5 (I'd argue Trout, Cabrera, McCutchen, Cano, Posey and maybe Beltre have been better over the past couple of years).

Fair enough

 

[The Derski]

Thanks for echoing my thoughts StanMarsh.. It's why I probably would put Miggy barely in the top 5 even in his MPV years.. Right now, Miggy is probably top 10 or 15 at best even though he also plays a solid 1st base..

In terms of overall baseball talent and production I have Trout and Miggy in the top 2.

 

[Arizona_Sting]

And out of the those four players, which one plays the least valuable defensive position? It's Goldschmidt of course.

A catcher with Posey's numbers or a 2B with Cano's numbers for example is certainly worth more than/more valuable than a 1B with Goldschmidt's numbers. Position is why guys like Pedroia, Kent, Ivan Rodriguez, Ripken all have MVPs in years where they certainly didn't have the best numbers.

Just looking at the Posey comparison: since the start of 2012, Posey has a 148 OPS+ and Goldschmidt has a 151 OPS+. The fact that Posey plays the most demanding position where offense is scare and Goldschmidt plays the least demanding position where offense is generally the highest should more than override that gap in offense.

Really? You're solely using OPS since 2012 and position importance as your argument of who the better BASEBALL player is? Okay, I'm done. If that's all you have to bring to the table then I really don't want to be apart of this discussion anyways. Thanks for saving my time.

 

[StanMarsh51]

Really? You're solely using OPS since 2012 and position importance as your argument of who the better BASEBALL player is? Okay, I'm done. If that's all you have to bring to the table then I really don't want to be apart of this discussion anyways. Thanks for saving my time.

It's not like Posey's also hitting .312 with a .380+ OBP during that span despite playing the most demanding position on the field and playing half his games in a very pitcher friendly ballpark.

But if you want to be one of the very few that think Goldschmidt is a better player, so be it....but you won't find many non-D'Backs fans who agree with you if you post a poll on it.

 

[Lions=TeHsUcKs]

In terms of overall baseball talent and production I have Trout and Miggy in the top 2.

Not the last two years for sure.. I dunno at 3rd base he was mediocre.. But Metrics agreed with you more than me..

 

[DHoey]

And out of the those four players, which one plays the least valuable defensive position? It's Goldschmidt of course.

A catcher with Posey's numbers or a 2B with Cano's numbers for example is certainly worth more than/more valuable than a 1B with Goldschmidt's numbers. Position is why guys like Pedroia, Kent, Ivan Rodriguez, Ripken all have MVPs in years where they certainly didn't have the best numbers.

Just looking at the Posey comparison: since the start of 2012, Posey has a 148 OPS+ and Goldschmidt has a 151 OPS+. The fact that Posey plays the most demanding position where offense is scare and Goldschmidt plays the least demanding position where offense is generally the highest should more than override that gap in offense.

So Posey's value will be going down as he is playing first base more and more? 1/3 of his games this year have been at 1st base

 

[Fountain City Blues]

So Posey's value will be going down as he is playing first base more and more? 1/3 of his games this year have been at 1st base

That's what I am thinking as well. Posey's value, like Mauer, is going to drop at 1B- regardless of what he hits.

 

[StanMarsh51]

So Posey's value will be going down as he is playing first base more and more? 1/3 of his games this year have been at 1st base

That's what I am thinking as well. Posey's value, like Mauer, is going to drop at 1B- regardless of what he hits.

Yep...just looking at last year, Posey had a .854 OPS which was 165 points better than the MLB catcher average. If he were a 1B, that .854 OPS would've been 97 points better than the average 1B, which is quite good, but nowhere near the 165 points he's ahead of the average catcher.

 

[DHoey]

Yep...just looking at last year, Posey had a .854 OPS which was 165 points better than the MLB catcher average. If he were a 1B, that .854 OPS would've been 97 points better than the average 1B, which is quite good, but nowhere near the 165 points he's ahead of the average catcher.

Another thing to think about is Posey's stats compared to Brandon belt's, the normal 1st baseman

 

[Pattersonca65]

He has been a killer to the Giants. I think Lincecum has nightmares about him.

 

[The Derski]

 

[kramer1]

Todd Frazier is on his heels.....

 

[mr.hockey4242]

Easily one of the best 5. Most could argue top 3. Name players that are clearly better than him outside of Trout.

Well this is a little different then your initial post lol.

 

[mr.hockey4242]

Todd Frazier is on his heels.....

Frazier is doing really well. But he's not even close to the player Goldy is.

 

[mr.hockey4242]

Josh Donaldson, Joey Votto, Tulo(When Healthy), McCutchen, Brantley, Miggy, Yadier Molina, Stanton for sure off the top of my head. This accounting for defense as well of course..

Then you have guys like Beltre, Heyward, Cain, Gordon who are on par if not arguably better..

This is just without deep research either..

He is certainly top 20 or 15.. But sure as hell not top 5.. Maybe if he continues his base stealing this season with his hitting you could make that argument.. But you also have to account for other up and comers like Harper, Rizzo (Very good 1st base defense), Freeman, Simmons, Marte, Pederson etc..

Heyward, Cain and Gordon really got me to LOL

 

[mr.hockey4242]

Goldschmidt is clearly better than Brantley, Donaldson, Stanton, Beltre, Heyward, Cain, Gordon etc.

It looks like you basically made a list of players that Goldschmidt is better than.

Clearly better than Brantley, Donaldson and Stanton is just biased at its best. You could def argue he's better...but nothing is "clear". Those are 3 MVP candidate all stars themselves.

Beltre currently was a dumb nomination. The other 3 hilarious

 

[Lions=TeHsUcKs]

Heyward, Cain and Gordon really got me to LOL

Gordon has posted one of the best individual WARs recently.. I bet you just look at offensive stats.. Cain has been great this year.. I'm looking at defense as well..

 

[Lions=TeHsUcKs]

Heyward was a mistake though