Paul Goldschmidt

[Fountain City Blues]

Let's not forget Robinson Cano, either. A 2nd baseman that hits better than most 1B is a damn good player, even if Cano's defense is pretty meh. The power numbers were down last year, but he still batted .314/.382/.454 with a 136 wRC+ (19th among all MLB players).

Like I said, it's somewhat tricky to put Goldschmidt in the top 5, but he is absolutely right there in the discussion for top players in the league- and there's a really good argument for him being the best 1B right now. It would also shock absolutely nobody if he just completely dominated and won MVP.

 

[Lions=TeHsUcKs]

Lol

1. McCutchen's been on par with Goldschmidt offensively, and that's before you factor in position. Not to mention McCutchen has more of a track record than Goldschmidt. Goldy was fantastic last year, but he only played 109 games. He's had one full season where he's played at an MVP-caliber level. 2012 was good, but not great.
2. a lot of people forget how good Joey Votto is. And the power looks like it's finally back.
3. Josh Donaldson's one of the best defensive players in the league at a more demanding position, and he's a damn good hitter to boot. Same goes for Alex Gordon (granted offense is a bit higher at LF than 3B).
4. Adrian Beltre has been among the best 3B in the league over the last 5 seasons, batting .316/.364/.535 (140 OPS+) while playing above average/elite defense (his defense isn't quite godly anymore though).
5. Tulowitzki... ehh. He's played 291 games from 2012-15. His talent's obvious, but durability is a skill, and he simply lacks it. It's hard to call a guy that can't stay healthy one of the best.


I can agree with Goldschmidt being top 5.

It looks like you were agreeing with me for a second there.. I was looking at players the last few seasons.. Goldschmidt was amazing in 2013, but like Tulo has been injured in 2014.. And again he's had one legit good MVP caliber season.. Let's not start locking him up top 5.. Of course if he keeps up this pace then I guess we would all have to agree.. Those players I listed still have a better track record.. You could argue Brantley, but the WAR is legit with him..

 

[Lions=TeHsUcKs]

Okay I simply cannot have a discussion with you anymore. I'm not sure if you're trolling or not but if not MY LORD you do not know your baseball very well.

I know metrics very well. I listed guys who were on par or better than Goldschmidt, and you have to account for the fact that he's had ONE good season in his career.. That's like me labeling JD Martinez a legit 5 WAR player because of last season alone..

 

[Lions=TeHsUcKs]

Let's not forget Robinson Cano, either. A 2nd baseman that hits better than most 1B is a damn good player, even if Cano's defense is pretty meh. The power numbers were down last year, but he still batted .314/.382/.454 with a 136 wRC+ (19th among all MLB players).

Might need to mention Altuve despite his stature.. He's a beast..

 

[The Derski]

Wait did someone say Josh Donaldson is better than Goldschmidt?









Seriously?

 

[The Derski]

Josh Donaldson, Joey Votto, Tulo(When Healthy), McCutchen, Brantley, Miggy, Yadier Molina, Stanton for sure off the top of my head. This accounting for defense as well of course..

Then you have guys like Beltre, Heyward, Cain, Gordon who are on par if not arguably better..

This is just without deep research either..

He is certainly top 20 or 15.. But sure as hell not top 5.. Maybe if he continues his base stealing this season with his hitting you could make that argument.. But you also have to account for other up and comers like Harper, Rizzo (Very good 1st base defense), Freeman, Simmons, Marte, Pederson etc..

Goldschmidt is clearly better than Brantley, Donaldson, Stanton, Beltre, Heyward, Cain, Gordon etc.

It looks like you basically made a list of players that Goldschmidt is better than.

 

[tducey]

Awesome player for sure, amongst the games best.

 

[Lions=TeHsUcKs]

Goldschmidt is clearly better than Brantley, Donaldson, Stanton, Beltre, Heyward, Cain, Gordon etc.

It looks like you basically made a list of players that Goldschmidt is better than.

Lol no he isn't.. No offense but I would take Stanton over him any day of the week.. And Lmao@ questioning that Donaldson isn't better either..

 

[Arizona_Sting]

Lol no he isn't.. No offense but I would take Stanton over him any day of the week.. And Lmao@ questioning that Donaldson isn't better either..

You know absolutely nothing about baseball. Just stop.

 

[Arizona_Sting]

I know metrics very well. I listed guys who were on par or better than Goldschmidt, and you have to account for the fact that he's had ONE good season in his career.. That's like me labeling JD Martinez a legit 5 WAR player because of last season alone..

One good season? So his first full year in the bigs hitting .286 with 20 homers, 82 RBI and 18 stolen bases isn't a "good" year?

Not to mention him following that up with the .302, 36 homer, 125 RBI, & 15 stolen base year with him also winning a Gold Glove and Silver Slugger in a year he would've won MVP if he team wasn't absolute dog shit… he is an elite defensive first baseman that has done nothing but rake everywhere he goes.

He was on pace for another MVP-type season last year before fracturing his wrist after getting hit by a pitch, missing the final two months of the season he STILL finished with 19 homers, 69 RBI, 9 SB, elite defense and was amongst the higher WAR at 1B despite missing extended time. Just stop. JD Martinez? Now you are really trolling, please don't make me embarrass you.

 

[Arizona_Sting]

Lions, I usually like you and respect you as a poster…. but this is sad if you're being serious right now.

 

[StanMarsh51]

Easily one of the best 5. Most could argue top 3. Name players that are clearly better than him outside of Trout.

So you create a thread claiming he's the best player in baseball, yet you're admitting that Trout is clearly better?

 

[StanMarsh51]

One good season? So his first full year in the bigs hitting .286 with 20 homers, 82 RBI and 18 stolen bases isn't a "good" year?

Not to mention him following that up with the .302, 36 homer, 125 RBI, & 15 stolen base year with him also winning a Gold Glove and Silver Slugger in a year he would've won MVP if he team wasn't absolute dog shit… he is an elite defensive first baseman that has done nothing but rake everywhere he goes.

He was on pace for another MVP-type season last year before fracturing his wrist after getting hit by a pitch, missing the final two months of the season he STILL finished with 19 homers, 69 RBI, 9 SB, elite defense and was amongst the higher WAR at 1B despite missing extended time. Just stop. JD Martinez? Now you are really trolling, please don't make me embarrass you.

You use WAR to bring up how great his 2014 injury-shortened season was, yet you seem to be completely ignoring WAR when arguing the 2013 MVP because McCutchen had a better WAR than Goldscmidt.

So WAR is only used when it helps your homerish arguments?

 

[The Derski]

You use WAR to bring up how great his 2014 injury-shortened season was, yet you seem to be completely ignoring WAR when arguing the 2013 MVP because McCutchen had a better WAR than Goldscmidt.

So WAR is only used when it helps your homerish arguments?

Curious on what your stance on Goldschmidt is.

 

[Lions=TeHsUcKs]

You know absolutely nothing about baseball. Just stop.

I know that you are a fucking homer.. Donaldson is a top 5-10 player considering the position+defense and bat.. You act like because his BA isn't jaw dropping, that he's a mediocre player.. Get with the fucking times already.. Goldschmidt is a great player with good 1st base defense and he does steal some bases. But I'm sorry he is at a position where he needs to hit and defense doesn't mean much when you are playing the equivalent or less important position of that a Corner OF..

He is an elite player in the 15-20 range but certainly not top 5.. That is my argument..

 

[Lions=TeHsUcKs]

I will also concede that 2012 was a good year but hardly great.. He had a 3.1 WAR for the season and played below average Defense that year at a position which doesn't require much in the first place.. Hardly a great season and debatable of being even a good one.. I'm sorry but if you are on par with Prince Fielder in defense for the season, I would not consider that great at all. Glad he has improved immensely though..

 

[StanMarsh51]

Curious on what your stance on Goldschmidt is.

I'd put him somewhere in the top 10 position players, but probably not in the top 5 (I'd argue Trout, Cabrera, McCutchen, Cano, Posey and maybe Beltre have been better over the past couple of years).

 

[Arizona_Sting]

So you create a thread claiming he's the best player in baseball, yet you're admitting that Trout is clearly better?

Trout is the only player I would take over him if I was starting a team right now from scratch. I'll put it that way.

 

[Arizona_Sting]

You use WAR to bring up how great his 2014 injury-shortened season was, yet you seem to be completely ignoring WAR when arguing the 2013 MVP because McCutchen had a better WAR than Goldscmidt.

So WAR is only used when it helps your homerish arguments?

WAR was one thing I used in that post since he brought it up in the first place. Homerish argument? You serious dude? Read what he said about him before I replied. Don't just jump in a conversation and nit pick my post please…context is important. He said he only had one good season which is complete bullshit so I called him out. Do you really agree with that?

Some of the names he listed as better than Goldy were laughable as well. At least your list is reasonable.

 

[Arizona_Sting]

I'd put him somewhere in the top 10 position players, but probably not in the top 5 (I'd argue Trout, Cabrera, McCutchen, Cano, Posey and maybe Beltre have been better over the past couple of years).

Since 2012 Goldy has been more productive than Posey, Cano & Beltre despite missing 2 months last season.