Pat Forde's realignment plan.

[LawDawg]

i never said as much but they would be getting more than they are now. within a few years yes a lot of teams would be increasing stadium size.
Utah did it about 4 years after joining the PAC and have talked about doing it again.
TCU has done it 2x since joining the Big XII
within 5 years of leaving CUSA for the Big East Louisville started expanding.
4 years after moving from FCS to FBS App state increased capacity.
more money came in with movement. did they go from 25000 to 100000? no but slowly but surely they have increased sized.

You are making a ton of assumptions. Schools are cutting back on sports, totally dropping sports, and you expect them to expand football stadiums?

Final question ... what exactly is in this for the Haves, who have already spent the time and money to have large stadiums, and negotiated huge media contracts, and developed networks of donors, and developed some of the biggest brands in sports. Why in the world would those people suddenly be willing to share the largess with teams like FIU, UAB, or FAU? Let's say UGA's AD looks at this proposition ... what reasons would there be for him to get all excited and say, hell, yeah, let's do that.

 

[Deep Creek]

TCU is in a good spot..along with SMU.. the DFW area is growing rapidly and is a recruiting hot bed

True. Their biggest hurdle to overcome is they don't have huge alumni bases just because they've haven't had huge enrollments over the years. Same thing most private schools face.

But that rapid growth is the shits to drive in!

 

[Deep Creek]

You are making a ton of assumptions. Schools are cutting back on sports, totally dropping sports, and you expect them to expand football stadiums?

Final question ... what exactly is in this for the Haves, who have already spent the time and money to have large stadiums, and negotiated huge media contracts, and developed networks of donors, and developed some of the biggest brands in sports. Why in the world would those people suddenly be willing to share the largess with teams like FIU, UAB, or FAU? Let's say UGA's AD looks at this proposition ... what reasons would there be for him to get all excited and say, hell, yeah, let's do that.

Good points. The only reason they are willing to pay (aka share) the G5s get what they do now is to "keep them in the foal" so to speak. @WizardHawk best explained this to me a year or so ago. The P5s do not want the G5s to have their own division so they are willing to let them have just enough money to keep them put...i.e. make it financially punitive if they leave. IIRC, it is mainly the desire of the lower level P5s that were adamant about keeping them in FBS. But, hey, my forgetterer is a lot better than my rememberer these days.

 

[Olyduck]

You are making a ton of assumptions. Schools are cutting back on sports, totally dropping sports, and you expect them to expand football stadiums?

Final question ... what exactly is in this for the Haves, who have already spent the time and money to have large stadiums, and negotiated huge media contracts, and developed networks of donors, and developed some of the biggest brands in sports. Why in the world would those people suddenly be willing to share the largess with teams like FIU, UAB, or FAU? Let's say UGA's AD looks at this proposition ... what reasons would there be for him to get all excited and say, hell, yeah, let's do that.

Depends on who is controlling and what the system presents.
if someone, some organization, some collective be it the NCAA or whoever replaces the NCAA comes in and says this is how it is now play by our set up or you are on the outside

 

[LawDawg]

Depends on who is controlling and what the system presents.
if someone, some organization, some collective be it the NCAA or whoever replaces the NCAA comes in and says this is how it is now play by our set up or you are on the outside

You're kidding, right? The NCAA was created by and is controlled by the schools. The P5 have all the power. There is no magical third party that will come in and dictate to UGA or any other P5 school that there is a new way. Or dictate that these are the new conferences. I don't mean this to be bad as it is going to sound, but you really have to be new to college football and sports if you don't understand that the P5 conferences and the P5 schools control all of this. The collective is the P5 schools. Please tell me you understand that.

 

[MAIZEandBLUE09]

I feel like you miss that if this kind of thing were to happen there is no more P5 and G5. the money gap doesnt close over night but it narrows over time. what was once a 1 in 100 game is now an every year game and it starts to happen more. time evens things out. does that mean all of the current G5 schools will get there? no but more will have a shot than now.

I just don't think that's true. There aren't more elite players. There's roughly the same pool of HS players every year, if anything there's less as participating in HS football drops. What would be national title winning teams in the G5 if they had their own championship, turn into just good teams that play in good meaningless bowl games in the current system. UCF could lose 0 games for 5 years in a row and never make the playoff. And even in Forde's system, they'd be highly unlikely to do anything in a playoff format where they actually had to face elite teams back to back. The chance isn't just 1 in 50. The chance to make the playoff would be 1 in 50 and the chance to win that game would be even less. It's compounding unlikely scenarios.

There's also the problem that teams like Michigan are now playing a schedule 50% filled with MAC schools. And the same is said for all other power programs. We'd watch 6+ blowouts every year, it would be a terrible slate of games and the sport would suffer because of it. All to give those lower teams still almost no shot at a title. In my scenario, you'd play only P5 schools and the schedules, every week, would be awesome.

 

[psaboy]

A division/conference with the name Yankee is offensive, you are a racist.

 

[Thiefery]

A division/conference with the name Yankee is offensive, you are a racist.

Guess that means we can't use southerners division either?

 

[LawDawg]

There's also the problem that teams like Michigan are now playing a schedule 50% filled with MAC schools. And the same is said for all other power programs. We'd watch 6+ blowouts every year, it would be a terrible slate of games and the sport would suffer because of it. All to give those lower teams still almost no shot at a title. In my scenario, you'd play only P5 schools and the schedules, every week, would be awesome.

My point exactly ... why does anyone think fans of P5 schools would suddenly be ok playing 6 or 7 cupcakes. Hell, we get abused here is we schedule 1 or 2 cupcakes, and the answer is to add 5 more? No one would be going to Sanford in 95 degree heat in September to see us beat UAB, FIU, UCF, GaState and the like 50-0.

This is one of the many things stupid about this. G5 simply needs to do their own playoff.

 

[MAIZEandBLUE09]

My point exactly ... why does anyone think fans of P5 schools would suddenly be ok playing 6 or 7 cupcakes. Hell, we get abused here is we schedule 1 or 2 cupcakes, and the answer is to add 5 more? No one would be going to Sanford in 95 degree heat in September to see us beat UAB, FIU, UCF, GaState and the like 50-0.

This is one of the many things stupid about this. G5 simply needs to do their own playoff.

I honestly don't think CFB would be fun anymore if we played 6 MAC teams every year any only had a couple of even decent games on the schedule. In Michigan's case, our decent games would basically be Ohio State and Michigan State. Cinci, Louisville, Purdue and Indiana would provide crap games on most years with the occasionally decent season. I'm sorry but that would be awful.

 

[LawDawg]

I honestly don't think CFB would be fun anymore if we played 6 MAC teams every year any only had a couple of even decent games on the schedule. In Michigan's case, our decent games would basically be Ohio State and Michigan State. Cinci, Louisville, Purdue and Indiana would provide crap games on most years with the occasionally decent season. I'm sorry but that would be awful.

Couldn't agree more ... I think most of us understand this is a COVID inspired, bored out of our minds, funny thing to discuss. Only a few act is if this is a real thing.

 

[PnkPanther]

Plus if we allow NDSU in with the P5, they'll start winning all the national championships, just ask their fans

 

[Olyduck]

You're kidding, right? The NCAA was created by and is controlled by the schools. The P5 have all the power. There is no magical third party that will come in and dictate to UGA or any other P5 school that there is a new way. Or dictate that these are the new conferences. I don't mean this to be bad as it is going to sound, but you really have to be new to college football and sports if you don't understand that the P5 conferences and the P5 schools control all of this. The collective is the P5 schools. Please tell me you understand that.

I just don't think that's true. There aren't more elite players. There's roughly the same pool of HS players every year, if anything there's less as participating in HS football drops. What would be national title winning teams in the G5 if they had their own championship, turn into just good teams that play in good meaningless bowl games in the current system. UCF could lose 0 games for 5 years in a row and never make the playoff. And even in Forde's system, they'd be highly unlikely to do anything in a playoff format where they actually had to face elite teams back to back. The chance isn't just 1 in 50. The chance to make the playoff would be 1 in 50 and the chance to win that game would be even less. It's compounding unlikely scenarios.

There's also the problem that teams like Michigan are now playing a schedule 50% filled with MAC schools. And the same is said for all other power programs. We'd watch 6+ blowouts every year, it would be a terrible slate of games and the sport would suffer because of it. All to give those lower teams still almost no shot at a title. In my scenario, you'd play only P5 schools and the schedules, every week, would be awesome.

like just spitballing here but maybe read the article from the guy who actually put this idea out there. some of your questions would probably be answered from the horses mouth rather than me. I didnt write this article I can just open my mind up to hypothetical scenarios apparently better than most.

 

[Olyduck]

You're kidding, right? The NCAA was created by and is controlled by the schools. The P5 have all the power. There is no magical third party that will come in and dictate to UGA or any other P5 school that there is a new way. Or dictate that these are the new conferences. I don't mean this to be bad as it is going to sound, but you really have to be new to college football and sports if you don't understand that the P5 conferences and the P5 schools control all of this. The collective is the P5 schools. Please tell me you understand that.

right because the NCAA/P5 totally controlled the BCS and now the Playoff I forgot.

 

[Olyduck]

I just don't think that's true. There aren't more elite players. There's roughly the same pool of HS players every year, if anything there's less as participating in HS football drops. What would be national title winning teams in the G5 if they had their own championship, turn into just good teams that play in good meaningless bowl games in the current system. UCF could lose 0 games for 5 years in a row and never make the playoff. And even in Forde's system, they'd be highly unlikely to do anything in a playoff format where they actually had to face elite teams back to back. The chance isn't just 1 in 50. The chance to make the playoff would be 1 in 50 and the chance to win that game would be even less. It's compounding unlikely scenarios.

There's also the problem that teams like Michigan are now playing a schedule 50% filled with MAC schools. And the same is said for all other power programs. We'd watch 6+ blowouts every year, it would be a terrible slate of games and the sport would suffer because of it. All to give those lower teams still almost no shot at a title. In my scenario, you'd play only P5 schools and the schedules, every week, would be awesome.

there arent more elite players but on average knowing that schools like Boise, Houston, Western Michigan, UCF are going to get a conference title and a big bowl and thats about it do you think players decided to go to a school that is in a P5 instead? Local 3* players going to P5 instead of G5 would start to change and eventually those would turn to 4* and the occasional 5.

2008 Utah had 1 4* and 10 3* recruits.
2012 after they join Pac 12 4 4* and 16 3*
2020 4 4* 17 3*

2008 TCU 0 4* and 10 3*
2013 after joining Big XII 1 4 * 19 3*
2020 1 5* 5 4* and 13 3*

 

[Olyduck]

My point exactly ... why does anyone think fans of P5 schools would suddenly be ok playing 6 or 7 cupcakes. Hell, we get abused here is we schedule 1 or 2 cupcakes, and the answer is to add 5 more? No one would be going to Sanford in 95 degree heat in September to see us beat UAB, FIU, UCF, GaState and the like 50-0.

This is one of the many things stupid about this. G5 simply needs to do their own playoff.

this is different than Vandy 30-6
Tenn 38-12
Miss st 31-3
not to mention the other G5 and FCS schools UGA has beat in sept at home.

also what makes you think UGA would beat them 50-0 remember 2016 Nichols state? Louisiana?
2015 Georgia Southern who you claim you would beat 50-0 took UGA to Overtime

 

[Deep Creek]

there arent more elite players but on average knowing that schools like Boise, Houston, Western Michigan, UCF are going to get a conference title and a big bowl and thats about it do you think players decided to go to a school that is in a P5 instead? Local 3* players going to P5 instead of G5 would start to change and eventually those would turn to 4* and the occasional 5.

2008 Utah had 1 4* and 10 3* recruits.
2012 after they join Pac 12 4 4* and 16 3*
2020 4 4* 17 3*

2008 TCU 0 4* and 10 3*
2013 after joining Big XII 1 4 * 19 3*
2020 1 5* 5 4* and 13 3*

Their five star could very well end up being one big royal pain in the ass. I hope the kid gets his head on straight. But a horse usually runs just like the Daily Racing Form says he will.

 

[Olyduck]

Their five star could very well end up being one big royal pain in the ass. I hope the kid gets his head on straight. But a horse usually runs just like the Daily Racing Form says he will.

my point was that by upgrading to a bigger conference with a chance at an NC the recruiting increased as well.

 

[MAIZEandBLUE09]

there arent more elite players but on average knowing that schools like Boise, Houston, Western Michigan, UCF are going to get a conference title and a big bowl and thats about it do you think players decided to go to a school that is in a P5 instead? Local 3* players going to P5 instead of G5 would start to change and eventually those would turn to 4* and the occasional 5.

2008 Utah had 1 4* and 10 3* recruits.
2012 after they join Pac 12 4 4* and 16 3*
2020 4 4* 17 3*

2008 TCU 0 4* and 10 3*
2013 after joining Big XII 1 4 * 19 3*
2020 1 5* 5 4* and 13 3*

Who cares? It's not up to the P5 to hold these teams afloat just to hope that one team a year is decent from the scraps they get? And wouldn't a lot of those kids rather have a shot at a real national title? I doubt the motivating factor is "yes I get to play in a decent bowl, maybe someday at WMU" but rather "this school is giving me a scholarship to play here" which schools can afford all the way down to JUCO.

 

[Olyduck]

Who cares? It's not up to the P5 to hold these teams afloat just to hope that one team a year is decent from the scraps they get? And wouldn't a lot of those kids rather have a shot at a real national title? I doubt the motivating factor is "yes I get to play in a decent bowl, maybe someday at WMU" but rather "this school is giving me a scholarship to play here" which schools can afford all the way down to JUCO.

its also the same thing that happened when scholarship limits came in. more schools became more competitive and some of the blue bloods started to fall.