OT: Zimmerman Not Guilty

[MHSL82]

Zimmerman did not specifically lay out where Martin was or where he ran to, other than to say he was near the clubhouse and then ran toward the back entrance. The most reasonable interpretation by far is that Zimmerman was behind Martin at the clubhouse, Martin turned back toward him and may have walked back a bit, then turned and ran away from him, perhaps through the cut-through. The argument that Martin walked right past Zimmerman doesn't make much sense. If he had, either Zimmerman must have been ahead of Martin, or Martin would have been running away from the back entrance. Furthermore, Zimmerman, who was clearly somewhat on edge, almost certainly would have said something like, "He's walking right up to/past/near me." He never says anything like that.

I don't know about the 911 call, and clearly that's more reliable than his re-enactment, but in the re-enactment, he did say that he went passed Martin and that Martin was waiting under the roof (to avoid the rain. In the re-enactment he said that Martin walked around his car. Again, the re-enactment is NOT as reliable as the 911 call and we don't get to hear Martin's account of the story (if he had been shot but not killed, I'd take his account with a grain of salt - as opposed to the pound I took for Zimmerman).

I'm sure you've seen the link to it, but if you haven't, I really think you should watch this video. There are some speculations and he comes to the conclusion that Zimmerman followed him on the other side of the buildings and caught him on the other side, to which Martin walked briskly away (his girlfriend said he refused out of principle to run at that point and she pleaded with him to do so).

This link is his guess and I would rewind to the 27 minute mark if you don't have time to watch the whole thing. There are about 8-9 minutes of dead air with music you could skip even if you watched the whole thing.

The Death of Trayvon Martin - YouTube

 

[MHSL82]

In that video, the distances they speculated that the two went in those 2 minutes and 43 seconds is a bit long, so maybe Zimmerman cut through a house, possibly knowing that at the half point he'd be close to Martin regardless of whether Martin was on the left or right.

 

[Ibangedlolojones]

Right. I'm saying I have some problems with that in a case involving homicide. Though having thought about it quite a lot lately, I'm not sure making self-defense an affirmative defense would be the right call in most cases. This case is, after all, pretty unique.

As I noted yesterday, my biggest problem with this by far is that Zimmerman was carrying. If someone is going to carry for self-defense, fine. In that case, you should then go out of your way not to put yourself in a dangerous situation. Rights carry responsibilities, and gun ownership carries more responsibilities than most given the extremely dangerous nature of the tool. Rather than making SAFER decisions because he was strapped, Zimmerman acted in a RISKIER fashion - likely because he was armed. As soon as he does that, it's hard to argue he has a gun for self-defense IMO.

No doubt about it.....

 

[Crimsoncrew]

I don't know about the 911 call, and clearly that's more reliable than his re-enactment, but in the re-enactment, he did say that he went passed Martin and that Martin was waiting under the roof (to avoid the rain. In the re-enactment he said that Martin walked around his car. Again, the re-enactment is NOT as reliable as the 911 call and we don't get to hear Martin's account of the story (if he had been shot but not killed, I'd take his account with a grain of salt - as opposed to the pound I took for Zimmerman).

I'm sure you've seen the link to it, but if you haven't, I really think you should watch this video. There are some speculations and he comes to the conclusion that Zimmerman followed him on the other side of the buildings and caught him on the other side, to which Martin walked briskly away (his girlfriend said he refused out of principle to run at that point and she pleaded with him to do so).

This link is his guess and I would rewind to the 27 minute mark if you don't have time to watch the whole thing. There are about 8-9 minutes of dead air with music you could skip even if you watched the whole thing.

The Death of Trayvon Martin - YouTube

I hadn't had a chance to watch that until now. And Martin walking past Zimmerman does make some sense in that context. Of course, that video starts with the premise that Zimmerman was not in fact following Martin initially. I'm not sure I entirely buy the way that plays out, with Zimmerman circling around, but the simple fact is that we'll never know what happened before these two came face-to-face. Both sides of the debate tend to see things the way they want to.

 

[MHSL82]

I hadn't had a chance to watch that until now. And Martin walking past Zimmerman does make some sense in that context. Of course, that video starts with the premise that Zimmerman was not in fact following Martin initially. I'm not sure I entirely buy the way that plays out, with Zimmerman circling around, but the simple fact is that we'll never know what happened before these two came face-to-face. Both sides of the debate tend to see things the way they want to.

The video showed the cameras at the clubhouse and it shows either a few cars going both ways slowly or one car doubling back. Not sure where this ties into other than maybe he drove passed initially stopped at the country club like he said, came back to find him, then went to where his car ended up. Trayvon would have to pass him at some point, meaning their paths crossing and Martin may have looked at Zimmerman and Zimmerman might have truly noticed it, but this, as you said, doesn't confirm a walking-around-the-car theory per se. Someone said that Trayvon took a circuitous path to his house - one could say that was to look for houses to steal from, to see Zimmerman, or it could just be his preferred path to home he always took. Rain may have affected where he was going, how he got there, maybe he was deciding whether to go to his friend's house to give the skittles or to go home or maybe the friend was at his home and he didn't know whether he was being picked up.

There are sooo many possibilities, one of which including everyone alive lying or telling the truth, hypotheticals of Martin lying or telling the truth (either alive to his GF or if he had survived), etc.

 

[TobyTyler]

This link is his guess and I would rewind to the 27 minute mark if you don't have time to watch the whole thing. There are about 8-9 minutes of dead air with music you could skip even if you watched the whole thing.

The Death of Trayvon Martin - YouTube[/QUOTE]

That video should be posted everywhere and should be a lesson on what could happen to all would be thugs like Trayvon Martin.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

This link is his guess and I would rewind to the 27 minute mark if you don't have time to watch the whole thing. There are about 8-9 minutes of dead air with music you could skip even if you watched the whole thing.

The Death of Trayvon Martin - YouTube

That video should be posted everywhere and should be a lesson on what could happen to all would be thugs like Trayvon Martin.[/QUOTE]

If that video is accurate, the "Martin ambushing and attacking Zimmerman" theory is out the window. According to the video, Zimmerman cut off Martin before he got home. But that's right, Martin was a black kid who smoked weed and got in some fights. He probably deserved to die regardless of what actually happened that night.

 

[jarrod49]

Everyone needs too look up Roderick Scott and Christopher cervini!!! In 2009 cervini was shot and killed by neighborhood watchman Scott! Supposedly 16 yr old white cervini rushed grown black man Scott who already had his gun drawn and got double tapped in the chest!!!

 

[TobyTyler]

That video should be posted everywhere and should be a lesson on what could happen to all would be thugs like Trayvon Martin.

If that video is accurate, the "Martin ambushing and attacking Zimmerman" theory is out the window. According to the video, Zimmerman cut off Martin before he got home. But that's right, Martin was a black kid who smoked weed and got in some fights. He probably deserved to die regardless of what actually happened that night.[/QUOTE]

Wow! I took you for a lot of things, but a racist wasn't one of them. Martin got what he got because he was a punk ass thug who told his girlfriend he wouldn't back down from no "cracker", not because he was black.

 

[TobyTyler]

Everyone needs too look up Roderick Scott and Christopher cervini!!! In 2009 cervini was shot and killed by neighborhood watchman Scott! Supposedly 16 yr old white cervini rushed grown black man Scott who already had his gun drawn and got double tapped in the chest!!![/QUOTE]

Notice how there was no uproar about that "poor cild" getting murdered?

 

[EaseUrStorm]

You are making a ton of assumptions here. You're right, he might have been closer than 80 yards away, but there is absolutely nothing to suggest that he walked right by Zimmerman's car. It's also worth noting that Martin's sweatshirt did not have any buttons on it, so Zimmerman couldn't have seen all that clearly.

Zimmerman did not specifically lay out where Martin was or where he ran to, other than to say he was near the clubhouse and then ran toward the back entrance. The most reasonable interpretation by far is that Zimmerman was behind Martin at the clubhouse, Martin turned back toward him and may have walked back a bit, then turned and ran away from him, perhaps through the cut-through. The argument that Martin walked right past Zimmerman doesn't make much sense. If he had, either Zimmerman must have been ahead of Martin, or Martin would have been running away from the back entrance. Furthermore, Zimmerman, who was clearly somewhat on edge, almost certainly would have said something like, "He's walking right up to/past/near me." He never says anything like that.

I'm using logic based on all the info available and it is not a ton of assumptions. its a likely assumption. This is a very similar process to assuming he got out of the car when you hear a ding and wind from apparent movement. You actually are filling in the gap and making an assumption here because just maybe he only rolled the window down. But that is unlikely. saying he was 100 yards away when he is describing him staring at me, moving toward me, has white shoes, and a button on his shirt is to me just as unlikely. It was very dark at that time based on what I saw from the actual testimony.

 

[EaseUrStorm]

That video should be posted everywhere and should be a lesson on what could happen to all would be thugs like Trayvon Martin.

If that video is accurate, the "Martin ambushing and attacking Zimmerman" theory is out the window. According to the video, Zimmerman cut off Martin before he got home. But that's right, Martin was a black kid who smoked weed and got in some fights. He probably deserved to die regardless of what actually happened that night.[/QUOTE]

Are you really referring to the very end where it says something to the effect of possible scenario on the screen? That was completely made up. Yes throw the defense out the window. How about we give zimmerman the timeline and let him also draw up an imaginary scenario for an ambush scenario? The person who put that video together is literally just making something up within the given timeline at the end, and discloses the speculation.

 

[EaseUrStorm]

Everyone needs too look up Roderick Scott and Christopher cervini!!! In 2009 cervini was shot and killed by neighborhood watchman Scott! Supposedly 16 yr old white cervini rushed grown black man Scott who already had his gun drawn and got double tapped in the chest!!!

Yes thanks for pointing this out. I heard about this too. There are some key differences in the cases, but if it was a white, or partially white shooter on a black teen there probably would have been a media circus pushing for a guilty verdict. Even with the initial charge. You cannot question racial motivation to a public in that case though as it went down, which is hypocrisy. Even though white kids have been shooting up schools. No one would dare go that route though or face the media consequences. The more the racial card gets played the more it becomes an issue and divides IMO.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

I'm using logic based on all the info available and it is not a ton of assumptions. its a likely assumption. This is a very similar process to assuming he got out of the car when you hear a ding and wind from apparent movement. You actually are filling in the gap and making an assumption here because just maybe he only rolled the window down. But that is unlikely. saying he was 100 yards away when he is describing him staring at me, moving toward me, has white shoes, and a button on his shirt is to me just as unlikely. It was very dark at that time based on what I saw from the actual testimony.

I didn't say he was 100 yards away. I said he could have been. Again, we will never know what really happened. Though even if Martin did walk past Zimmerman, I don't see how it makes any difference whatsoever.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

If that video is accurate, the "Martin ambushing and attacking Zimmerman" theory is out the window. According to the video, Zimmerman cut off Martin before he got home. But that's right, Martin was a black kid who smoked weed and got in some fights. He probably deserved to die regardless of what actually happened that night.

Are you really referring to the very end where it says something to the effect of possible scenario on the screen? That was completely made up. Yes throw the defense out the window. How about we give zimmerman the timeline and let him also draw up an imaginary scenario for an ambush scenario? The person who put that video together is literally just making something up within the given timeline at the end, and discloses the speculation.[/QUOTE]

That's my point. This is all speculation.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

Everyone needs too look up Roderick Scott and Christopher cervini!!! In 2009 cervini was shot and killed by neighborhood watchman Scott! Supposedly 16 yr old white cervini rushed grown black man Scott who already had his gun drawn and got double tapped in the chest!!!

I hadn't heard of that, and it's possible that the racial make-up of the two parties played a part in the coverage - or lack thereof - that it received. Without knowing the facts of the case, it seems as if it would raise similar issues for me. I don't like the idea of untrained neighborhood watch carrying firearms and confronting suspected criminals. That's why we have police and sheriff's departments.

 

[Ltrain]

I can't believe this animal is still on the streets (sarcasm):
George Zimmerman Emerged From Hiding to Rescue Family Trapped in SUV - ABC News

 

[TobyTyler]

I can't believe this animal is still on the streets (sarcasm):
George Zimmerman Emerged From Hiding to Rescue Family Trapped in SUV - ABC News

Zimmerman is the man!

 

[Breaker99]

I can't believe this animal is still on the streets (sarcasm):
George Zimmerman Emerged From Hiding to Rescue Family Trapped in SUV - ABC News

Oh he questionably helped some people after a non injury accident? Well why didn't you say so... then I see no reason why he shouldn't be arming himself and stalking people on the sidewalk in the dark of night.... Especially 17 year old kids carrying an intimidating big gulp and a scary ass bag of skittles.

 

[Ltrain]

Not that it has anything to do with justifiable homicide, but found an interesting article that the drink and skittles Trayvon had in his possession could be combined with cough medicine to create an intoxicating drink called "lean". Again, nobody deserved to die based solely on skittles and a big gulp, but it may have been less innocent than most believe. Skittles, Arizona Iced Tea, Robitussin = ?Drank? Or ?Lean? | The Real Revo