OT: Zimmerman Not Guilty

[TobyTyler]

Stevie Wonder boycotts Florida following George Zimmerman verdict - NBC News.com

Ha ha! Who gives a fuck what Stevie Wonder does anymore.

 

[imac_21]

Ha ha! Martin already established himself as a racist by calling Zimmerman a "creepy ass cracker" when speaking to his girlfriend. How do you think he would have taken to being questioned by this same "creepy ass crcker"?

I didn't realize Martin called his girlfriend to complain the instant Zimmerman showed up.

Or are you simply struggling with the idea that the FIRST thing Zimmerman should have done is talk to the kid.

 

[imac_21]

A lot of people are painting TM as someone who's just minding his own business and walking through a neighborhood at night and he gets stalked. Look at this through Zimmerman's perspective. He was driving through his neighborhood and sees some shady guy in a hoody scoping out houses and acting erratic like he was on drugs. He wants to keep tabs on this guy because he fits the profile of someone who would rob a house. Look in to the history of Zimmerman - he's not remotely racist. He's profiling someone fitting the description of a robber. That is your punk.

Keeping tabs one someone like that can be labeled as stalking, but it's a loaded word that gets twisted around for what he was doing. He's keeping his eyes on a suspicious person. And he's continuing to trail the guy after calling 911 because he anticipates this guy is about to flee. The cops probably won't be able to track him down once he takes off. That is why he's still following him.

For the motive for confrontation he seemed to have a motive to talk to the guy based on getting out of the car. But it's really hard to claim he had a motive for a physical confrontation at that point with this guy. Remember, he was just on the phone with the cops who are on their way.Why would you call the cops right before getting out of a car to get in a fight? Does that make any sense? What makes sense is he got out of the car to talk to the guy and ask him what he was doing. Why does he not have the right to do that?

I will say this one more time:

Martin made a mistake, Zimmerman made a collection of mistakes. Quit trying to justify ALL of Zimmerman's actions.

All Zimmerman had to do was, rather than follow, speak to Martin. Continue to ignore that though. That way you can continue to justify Zimmerman's actions while condemning a kid for walking alone at night.

 

[imac_21]

Maybe he did; maybe he didn't. Either way, Zimmerman is about as guilty of the legal definition of "stalking" as he's guilty of the legal definition of mail fraud.

Saying he "stalked" Martin is a red herring.

It's a red herring that you have clearly gone for. Kind of like the people that jump all over people who say Zimmerman was told not to follow by the operator.

I'll point out that I haven't said Zimmerman stalked Martin in any posts to you. The only post in which I have addressed stalking is one attempting to clarify the conflict between robotic and dodub. I'm sure you're aware that stalking has more than one definition.

You can believe that a place is safer if there are lots of people walking around carrying guns. You can also believe that water is not a vital part of existence. However, in both cases evidence seems to suggest otherwise.

 

[RoboticDreams]

I've never seen the word "stalk" misused more than I have here. Zimmerman was keeping an eye on him, not stalking him. There's a big difference.

 

[imac_21]

I can't believe I'm allowing myself to get sucked back into this shit. However. . .

It doesn't give him any special rights, but there is no law saying you can't chase down or stop a potential crime in progress. It's just that doing such is by far usually the worst idea you could act on and no law enforcement agency is ever going to suggest a civilian put themselves in harms way.

What crime was Trayvon Martin committing while Zimmerman chased him down?

The thing is if Martin had turned out to be a robber then Zimmerman would be touted as a hero for having the balls to go after him. Instead Martin turned out to just be a 17 year old guy walking out at night which changes everyone's perception of the situation.

Here's what I want you to try. Just follow everyone you see walking around your neighbourhood at night. . .Sorry, I can't be civil in response to the above quote. . . Are you fucking serious? IF Martin was a criminal? That's fucking ridiculous. If there were WMD in Iraq then Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld would be hailed as world saving heroes. I guess we should celebrate their massive fucking mistake. Shit, mistake isn't a strong enough word. Let's go with fuck up. I can't believe anyone had the audacity to make that "argument."

Take something like Flight 93. Do you think if anyone on that flight had been able to call the cops they would have been told to stay seated and do as told or get up and fight back? They acted out against reasoning and stopped what could have been the 3rd massive tragedy of the day. The people on that flight that stood up and fought back are heroes.

It keeps going. Can you give a realistic way for the cops to get onto Flight 93? I believe that hijacking a plane is breaking a law. Which laws had Martin broken before being followed by Zimmerman?

If you look at the story from a what if stand point though. What if it was just a middle eastern man getting up to use the bathroom. What if he got jumped and beat up as a terrorist just based on someone's paranoia. Now suddenly these people are not heroes but racist villains who profiled an innocent person.

Yes, that's correct. That's what they would have been. But that's not what happened. The hijackers had began the process of hijacking the plane. They didn't just jump the first non-white to get up. Are you saying that any action a person takes against someone who fits the description of a criminal, that action is justified? Are you cool with all the assaults that random Muslims suffered following the WTC attacks? Are you cool with the random assaults that people suffer simply because they vaguely resemble criminals? If I was good at finding youtube clips and posting them, this is where I would insert the Springfield police arresting Steve Sax because he was from New York and there was an unsolved murder in New York.

Flight 93 was a clear act of terrorism and the people thought bravely fought back deserve to be heroes, but no authority figure would ever have suggested to them to do what they did. Our media though paints a very thin line between being a courageous hero and being a racist targeting villain. It's pretty much if you're right you're right and if you're wrong... well then you end up like Zimmerman.

Maybe you're right. Trayvon Martin is the equivalent of Al Qaeda's hijackers. The people at 35,000 feet locked in a tin can with guys who had committed crimes are the same as Zimmerman, who had choices of being near Martin are not.

Are you fucking serious with this?

 

[imac_21]

rvnight didn't dismiss that racism exists. That would be like dismissing that stealing or murder exists. I don't want to speak for him, but I was getting the impression that people with really liberal political perspectives (the Al Sharptons & Jeremiah Wrights of the world) are hypocrites and blame people like him for racism when he isn't the problem; they are the problem (at least a huge part of it). They salivate at the possibility of any conservative saying something racist or any black person being the victim of a white crime because they want to capitalize on it politically. They don't give a $hit about Martin or his family; they care about this case being in the news and pissing off black people who don't know the facts of the case (like Jonathan Good's testimony).

Just look at the NAACP and the Duke Lacross case. The NAACP put up al kinds of false information about the case on their website and basically convicted these guys in their opinions (and the national media) before any evidence was shown (kind of like the Martin case), and then they wouldn't even issue an apology when it was discovered that the woman was lying.

I can't speak unequivocally about rvnight because I don't know him; but nobody has any justification to say that I should suffer negative consequences because of other people's racism. Let the blame lie where it belongs. The NAACP used to stand for a great cause. Now they (and people like them) stand for intentionally stirring up racial tension between white people and non-white people for political gain. This case is a perfect example. It was a hit job from the beginning.

Everyone suffers from other people's issues. To suggest otherwise is, as I said earlier, absolute bullshit. I didn't own any slaves, I'm not racist, I didn't cause the problem, so I don't care about it? Are you serious? I didn't cause racism, so I don't care about it?

That's bullshit.

 

[imac_21]

And it is safe to say that even if they asked him to stop following, by law, he doesn't have to. But if people are going to talk about this, we don't need any more misinformation going around because that is how GZ was painted as a racist when he isn't.

Yeah, he wasn't legally required to stop following him. That means that the decision to follow was the right one?

Zimmerman is an absolute idiot. He is probably one of the stupidest people I've ever been exposed to in any way shape or form. He's also a killer.

The attempt to justify his decision by saying simply he didn't have to listen to the operator is stupid.

I'm tired of reading people justifying Zimmerman's decision to follow someone by saying the operator didn't have the legal right to tell him not to.

 

[imac_21]

And it is safe to say that even if they asked him to stop following, by law, he doesn't have to. But if people are going to talk about this, we don't need any more misinformation going around because that is how GZ was painted as a racist when he isn't.

So because he legally didn't have to stop following, that means he made the right decision to continue following. A decision that resulted in him killing a kid who was doing nothing wrong other than walking at night while black.

Yeah, good call.

 

[imac_21]

Then it freeking doesn't apply! People aren't going around simply saying Zimmerman is a hero-complex asshole; they're saying he's guilty of 2nd degree murder!

If a guy wants to go up to another guy on the street and say something or not say something, that isn't against the law.

From what I can tell people are saying he should be guilty of manslaughter.

No one has said Zimmerman broke the law by following/stalking (fuck you, I'm using the term now) Martin. People are saying that it was a mistake to do so.

I think it's safe to say that Martin was uncomfortable with being followed by someone he didn't know while he was out by himself. I think it's safe to say most people would be uncomfortable in that situation.

But there are a lot of people that want to ignore the fact that Martin was a human being with emotions who will respond to different actions in unique ways. If anyone here were being followed by a stranger that never addresses you (and it should be clear to all that Zimmerman was following/stalking Martin), you will react. It's animal nature.

 

[imac_21]

You are right and I am wrong on him calling 911. That is my bad. But yes they represent the police office. But that doesn't mean he has to stop trailing the "suspect". He was well within his rights to keep following. Was it smart? Depends on what the outcome is. If Martin would have been a robber or something worse, like stated before he is a hero. In this case, Martin was not a robber and a tragedy happened.

We know the fucking outcome. So, was it a smart decision to continue STALKING this kid?

If Martin was a robber or something worse Zimmerman would be a statistic. If Martin was legitimately out to do wrong, Zimmerman following him would have been a huge mistake. I'm sure you're aware, Martin knew he was being followed.

If his goal was to rob a house, I'm betting he wouldn't do it while being followed.
If Martin was out to rob a house, I'm betting he would have been strapped.
If Martin were strapped, and out to do evil, he probably doesn't start beating Zimmerman up, he probably comes with his gun drawn, Zimmerman probably panics and gets shot.

 

[imac_21]

Because saying he was "stalking" Martin implies he was doing something illegal. He wasn't. He had every right to approach Martin.

He did have every right to approach Martin. Why didn't he?

 

[imac_21]

Stalking is unwanted and obsessive attention, it doesn't fit this case because he was on neighborhood watch. Following a suspicious person isn't' unwanted and obsessive attention, if that was the case no police officer would be able to follow a suspect or do surveillance.

So Martin wanted the attention from Zimmerman?

 

[imac_21]

I've never seen the word "stalk" misused more than I have here. Zimmerman was keeping an eye on him, not stalking him. There's a big difference.

That's because you don't acknowledge that there are multiple definitions of stalking. You're too busy trying to justify Zimmerman's actions.

Can anyone tell me two smart things Zimmerman did during this ordeal? I'll give you one: He called the police.

What's another one?

 

[TobyTyler]

Yeah, he wasn't legally required to stop following him. That means that the decision to follow was the right one?

Zimmerman is an absolute idiot. He is probably one of the stupidest people I've ever been exposed to in any way shape or form. He's also a killer.

The attempt to justify his decision by saying simply he didn't have to listen to the operator is stupid.

I'm tired of reading people justifying Zimmerman's decision to follow someone by saying the operator didn't have the legal right to tell him not to.

A lot of really stupid people are very rich and Zimmerman is about to join them.

 

[imac_21]

A lot of really stupid people are very rich and Zimmerman is about to join them.

Maybe he is. What does that have to do with anything said in this thread? Is this just another one of your attempts to say something in a thread for acknowledgement?

Here you go, hope this is what you're looking for.

 

[erckm510]

A lot of really stupid people are very rich and Zimmerman is about to join them.

Yup. He's about to be a millionaire. And I don't think the family can sue him in civil court. Just annoys me that people are also raising funds for him. Whatever tho. They wanna give Zimm their hard earned money then go for it I guess.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

Simple, this has been made to be a racial case by the mainstream media when it was not. They continue to call Zimmerman a " white Hispanic." Who has ever heard of such a label? White vs black sells, that is the only reason it has been billed as such.

I have. Most people who pay any attention to demographics have. I shared an article with you that explains such a thing, and expanded upon it myself. I'm not saying it applies to Zimmerman; I frankly don't know. But the concept of a white Hispanic is not a media construct.

 

[TobyTyler]

Maybe he is. What does that have to do with anything said in this thread? Is this just another one of your attempts to say something in a thread for acknowledgement?

Here you go, hope this is what you're looking for.

Fuck off you pompous know it all.

 

[TobyTyler]

Yup. He's about to be a millionaire. And I don't think the family can sue him in civil court. Just annoys me that people are also raising funds for him. Whatever tho. They wanna give Zimm their hard earned money then go for it I guess.

Just the money he's gonna get from the NRA speaking engagements and the other gun nuts is gonna make him rich. Then there's the talk shows and the book deal; appearance fees.