OT: Shooting in Oregon Mall

[puckhead]

worth a read:

Twelve facts about guns and mass shootings in the United States

 

[BF4L]

CNN Breaking News ‏@cnnbrk
3 guns found at #CTshooting scene: .223 Bushmaster, Glock, Sig-Sauer, police say. Children and adults gunned down in Connecticut school massacre – This Just In - CNN.com Blogs

I did not see that and the media is flowing with a lot of junk on this..

Matty had it right though.

 

[awaz]

There really is no way to truly stop this shit from happening. If people can think it (for the most part) it will happen.

true.. but there is a way to reduce it.. really bad, evil people will still find weapons through illegal means.. but i gotta believe shootings like this will diminish if/when guns are prohibited.. i feel like some of these have to be reaction type things that aren't thought through and if the guns not around, it cant/wont be used

 

[SLY]

true.. but there is a way to reduce it.. really bad, evil people will still find weapons through illegal means.. but i gotta believe shootings like this will diminish if/when guns are prohibited.. i feel like some of these have to be reaction type things that aren't thought through and if the guns not around, it cant/wont be used

It won't though. You prohibit alcohol, it flourishes. You prohibit drugs, it flourishes. You prohibit guns, criminals are still going to get them. They will be obtained illegally even moreso.

 

[BF4L]

I am out folks.

I do not disagree with anyone here and believe we all have pretty much the same main view.

All thos kids died today due to a lunatic and that is the only thing that really matters.

 

[mattola]

It won't though. You prohibit alcohol, it flourishes. You prohibit drugs, it flourishes. You prohibit guns, criminals are still going to get them. They will be obtained illegally even moreso.

maybe Im on the wrong thinking here. but its not really criminals doing these acts is it? most of these people were normal people in their circles minds. so if you take away the option for that non criminal to get the gun it will limit these instances. it wont stop them we all know that. but it will limit them I have a hard time believing they wont. so the argument of criminals still getting them doesnt work in this case to me. I understand what you mean however but I just dont think that argument works in this scenario

 

[awaz]

It won't though. You prohibit alcohol, it flourishes. You prohibit drugs, it flourishes. You prohibit guns, criminals are still going to get them. They will be obtained illegally even moreso.

maybe Im on the wrong thinking here. but its not really criminals doing these acts is it? most of these people were normal people in their circles minds. so if you take away the option for that non criminal to get the gun it will limit these instances. it wont stop them we all know that. but it will limit them I have a hard time believing they wont. so the argument of criminals still getting them doesnt work in this case to me. I understand what you mean however but I just dont think that argument works in this scenario

ya, i was trying to say what matty said, but i didnt do as good of a job

the rounding up of weapons would be a devastating event though i think.. if you outlaw guns can you imagine the police trying to walk in to Joe Redneck's house to claim his 25 guns?

 

[SLY]

maybe Im on the wrong thinking here. but its not really criminals doing these acts is it? most of these people were normal people in their circles minds. so if you take away the option for that non criminal to get the gun it will limit these instances. it wont stop them we all know that. but it will limit them I have a hard time believing they wont. so the argument of criminals still getting them doesnt work in this case to me. I understand what you mean however but I just dont think that argument works in this scenario

True. "These instances", but there are plenty of innocent lives (children and adults) lost on a daily basis to criminals with illegal firearms that we just don't hear about. Like I said, there is no easy answer.

 

[evolver115]

Are we as a nation becoming desensitized to violence?

I think the answer is a resounding affirmative. Look at the ages of the two most recent mass attackers. Just young adults. Neither over the age of 25. From my perspective, still just kids.

It surprises me to see this take place, but it still isn't a complete shock. We are inherently violent by nature. We entertain ourselves with violence in the theater, in video games and to a lesser extent..even in sports.

I believe we as a society need to evaluate just how casual we are about violence.

 

[mattola]

ive never seen so many professionals (news reporters and the president) break down as much as they have in any massacre I have ever seen. I hope the world changes today just even a little bit.

 

[SLY]

Are we as a nation becoming desensitized to violence?

I think the answer is a resounding affirmative. Look at the ages of the two most recent mass attackers. Just young adults. Neither over the age of 25. From my perspective, still just kids.

It surprises me to see this take place, but it still isn't a complete shock. We are inherently violent by nature. We entertain ourselves with violence in the theater, in video games and even in sports.

As a whole (the majority)? Yes. People are more concerned with the battery life of their smart phone.

Individually? No. I, and many others like yourself still show true concern for innocence in this grim world.

 

[SLY]

ive never seen so many professionals (news reporters and the president) break down as much as they have in any massacre I have ever seen. I hope the world changes today just even a little bit.

We can only hope.

 

[forty_three]

... but it should be about minimization of risk ...

Can't quote this enough. Risk is worst case scenario x likelihood / threat vector x impact.

Likelihood is the hardest to quantify as the likelihood seems to increase by the day.

true.. but there is a way to reduce it.. really bad, evil people will still find weapons through illegal means.. but i gotta believe shootings like this will diminish if/when guns are prohibited.. i feel like some of these have to be reaction type things that aren't thought through and if the guns not around, it cant/wont be used

Problem with the discussion is it is centered around these sensationalized incidents, when 3-5 times as many acts of violence happen singularly. Going back to the risk equation you have a relatively low (albeit increasing) likelihood event with a high impact. The higher frequency events are relatively low impact. The discussion has to include all of that. From the husband threatening his wife with a gun to this fucking animal. Every factor has to be considered before real discussion on solutions can happen. Nobody wants to do that because it's too hard.



I have BF4L on ignore but see he's posted in the thread a lot. Is he regaling us with bullshit stories of how he singlehandedly saved Boston one night and the cops all thanked him and hugged him and told him he had the biggest penis ever and all wanted to touch his Golden Peacemaker of Peace?

Or is he sticking to the "Outlaw guns and only outlaws will have guns DERP DERP DERP" argument so far?

Funny how I don't see his name in any thread until bullets have ripped through some innocent person's flesh.

 

[forty_three]

Are we as a nation becoming desensitized to violence?

One day, I was driving to work in Baltimore City when I happened upon an active murder scene. Cops everywhere, news crews, sheeted body in the street etc. And my first thought was "Fuck, now I'm gonna be late".

It was at that moment that I made the decision to leave the area. I hated myself for thinking that. But it was all too common an occurrence when I worked downtown.

Bah. I'm out all. hug your kids. Or your gun. Whatever's most important to you.

 

[evolver115]

As a whole (the majority)? Yes. People are more concerned with the battery life of their smart phone.

Individually? No. I, and many others like yourself still show true concern for innocence in this grim world.

Do you think video games such as Modern Warfare, or Call of Duty share in this desensitized outlook this country has towards violence? Namely, gun violence

 

[awaz]

Can't quote this enough. Risk is worst case scenario x likelihood / threat vector x impact.

Likelihood is the hardest to quantify as the likelihood seems to increase by the day.



Problem with the discussion is it is centered around these sensationalized incidents, when 3-5 times as many acts of violence happen singularly. Going back to the risk equation you have a relatively low (albeit increasing) likelihood event with a high impact. The higher frequency events are relatively low impact. The discussion has to include all of that. From the husband threatening his wife with a gun to this fucking animal. Every factor has to be considered before real discussion on solutions can happen. Nobody wants to do that because it's too hard.

the problem w/ the day-to-day violence is a lot of that is actually done w/ illegal firearms already (i think).. 'saving' the urban areas that see this type of violence need a complete societal reformation and there is so much that needs to go in to that, that we haven't even been able to start on a solution to that.. presidents and politicians try to make some headway there, but can never make the sweeping changes required to truly fix the problem

 

[KennyBanyeah]

worth a read:

Twelve facts about guns and mass shootings in the United States

Thanks puck.

Interesting read.

 

[puckhead]

I have BF4L on ignore but see he's posted in the thread a lot. Is he regaling us with bullshit stories of how he singlehandedly saved Boston one night and the cops all thanked him and hugged him and told him he had the biggest penis ever and all wanted to touch his Golden Peacemaker of Peace?

Or is he sticking to the "Outlaw guns and only outlaws will have guns DERP DERP DERP" argument so far?

Funny how I don't see his name in any thread until bullets have ripped through some innocent person's flesh.

no. sorrow like the rest of us.

 

[mattola]

I wonder how many in the gun control is not the answer camp may have thought "oh great now I have to defend owning guns again" as their first thought when this was announced. when I read about the "possible" shooting this AM I thought I hope its nothing then I went into class. I had a strange feeling to check the news half way through and looked on my phone and saw the information. I teared up in class. I didnt have much thought after that, just why kids. why

 

[awaz]

Do you think video games such as Modern Warfare, or Call of Duty share in this desensitized outlook this country has towards violence? Namely, gun violence

i think it all depends on the person.. i think the vast majority still respect the devastating power that weapons and violence have both to the victim and to the people surrounding the victim

but to the crazy few, and those that can be easily manipulated, i dont think there's any question