OT: Shooting in Oregon Mall

[BOSSMANPC]

The sad thing is no doubt there will be another thread on this same topic in the next few weeks.

 

[Forty_Sixand2]

I agree matt,

I have witnessed some other horrific stuff, such as massacres in Iraq, Rwanda and Bosnia of children this age that have exponentially higher body counts but distance made it too abstract to truly feel.

 

[SLY]

this truly is the most horrifying act I have ever been a witness to. I cant think of anything else that compares. I know there are moments in life that are truly grotesque and evil (mason killings) but this just ranks somewhere up at the top in my lifetime. I imagine there are others but this one is something

Yep. This one really hit hard. As details started pouring out, I definitely got teary eyed and had my stomach in knots. I just can't imagine being a parent and hearing that news.

 

[mattola]

conflicting stories coming in

- mother was killed at her home NOT in class
- name of killer may be wrong the name they released may be his brothers name
- their is a report that there was noone killed in Hobokon NJ but that info is bouncing back and forth.


the media is jumping on everything they can to get that scoop

 

[mattola]

I agree matt,

I have witnessed some other horrific stuff, such as massacres in Iraq, Rwanda and Bosnia of children this age that have exponentially higher body counts but distance made it too abstract to truly feel.

its the distance isnt it. we know its happening. probably in a more violent way if possible but because its so far away its not as tragic. thats sad to me

Yep. This one really hit hard. As details started pouring out, I definitely got teary eyed and had my stomach in knots. I just can't imagine being a parent and hearing that news.

I do recall one my thoughts were with my friends that have kids, mooger, puck, jstew, biz, and others (I could go on with the names) and how I hope they just hugged them.

I got a package in the mail today had to sign for it. I wished the fed ex guy a happy holidays and he walked away with a smile. I thought fuck why did I wish happy. how could I do that. weird feeling

all the best my friends.

 

[juliansteed]

I'm at the point now where I just wish we/the media would just stop paying attention to these stories. Obviously that's not realistic, but there are too many copy-cats out there. It's not going to stop them all but I can't help but think it would reduce the amount of random mass killings that we see.

 

[jstewismybastardson]

thanks matt ... i definitely will hug my son when i get home this afternoon ... and then play trains ... I might hug my daughter if she doesnt have poopy pants

 

[Forty_Sixand2]

its the distance isnt it. we know its happening. probably in a more violent way if possible but because its so far away its not as tragic. thats sad to me



I do recall one my thoughts were with my friends that have kids, mooger, puck, jstew, biz, and others (I could go on with the names) and how I hope they just hugged them.

I got a package in the mail today had to sign for it. I wished the fed ex guy a happy holidays and he walked away with a smile. I thought fuck why did I wish happy. how could I do that. weird feeling

all the best my friends.

My GF is doing her doctoral research in rwanda. Schools were literally hacked to death with machetes there and we (the US and the world) ignored it for the most part. It is mind blowing. However distance blocks it out.

The other one is the Virginia Tech shooting, because it hit close to home with me, but college kids are a bit more equipped to deal with the nightmares afterwards. I am not saying it is minor or they deserve to have to live through it by any means, but they may be a little more equipped.

 

[jstewismybastardson]

I'm at the point now where I just wish we/the media would just stop paying attention to these stories. Obviously that's not realistic, but there are too many copy-cats out there. It's not going to stop them all but I can't help but think it would reduce the amount of random mass killings that we see.

i posted it on page 2 but its worth a repost imo

[YOUTUBE]PezlFNTGWv4&feature=player_embedded[/YOUTUBE]

 

[BF4L]

I have BF4L on ignore but see he's posted in the thread a lot. Is he regaling us with bullshit stories of how he singlehandedly saved Boston one night and the cops all thanked him and hugged him and told him he had the biggest penis ever and all wanted to touch his Golden Peacemaker of Peace?

Or is he sticking to the "Outlaw guns and only outlaws will have guns DERP DERP DERP" argument so far?

Funny how I don't see his name in any thread until bullets have ripped through some innocent person's flesh.

I think I have said things a lot different then what you claim.

Not the thread to have a debate about anything. You can stay down there throwing insults. I will not.

 

[forty_three]

the problem w/ the day-to-day violence is a lot of that is actually done w/ illegal firearms already (i think).. 'saving' the urban areas that see this type of violence need a complete societal reformation and there is so much that needs to go in to that, that we haven't even been able to start on a solution to that.. presidents and politicians try to make some headway there, but can never make the sweeping changes required to truly fix the problem

That's a whole other can of worms, albeit a related one.

When our cities are less appealing to live in than a prison where someone is guaranteed 3 meals and a chance at an education... You won't stop crime.


Bottom line is this: Yes. There are crazy people out there, and if you have it in your heart to kill another human, you are going to do it. But no one just "snaps". We are too worried about hurting people's feelings that we don't ask them hard questions about why they act the way they do. Or they themselves know something's wrong, but don't ask for help because they don't want to be deemed crazy and ostracized. So if it's in their realm of consciousness to kill, and they don't get helped or stopped, they will. No "Snap". They will, at some point, cross the point of no return and they will kill.

I just wish that we, as a society, could figure out a way to limit their ability to get ahold of very efficient machines that help them do just that.

And if it offends some people in the process, so be it. 20 parents getting ready for Christmas just lost their reason to do so. I don't give a fuck about any gun nut's feelings right now.

 

[flyersfan4706]

The sad thing is no doubt there will be another thread on this same topic in the next few weeks.

This. Whole thing is un-fucking-believable.

 

[elocomotive]

Old saying "ban guns and only outlaws will have guns" is true.

This would be a great statement if their weren't TONS of first world countries with more strict gun laws than us that have far safer societies than us.

You can argue the degree to which restricting firearms will limit these incidents b/c there is no doubt SOME persons will still find weapons and commit terrible acts. But it's ridiculous not to acknowledge that restricting guns will have SOME positive effects in prevention b/c (a) some will not go through the difficulty of getting a weapon, (b) some will purchase far less damaging weapons instead, and (c) it gives law enforcement a better ability to track and monitor criminals trying to obtain illegal guns to catch them at that point rather than once it has progressed to the violent act itself.

That argument does NOT hold water. You can argue the degree to which it would aid the problem, but not the fact that it WOULD help the problem. That is an asenine argument only put forward by gun owners and gun nuts, not by individuals who study policy and social impacts.

 

[BF4L]

This would be a great statement if their weren't TONS of first world countries with more strict gun laws than us that have far safer societies than us.

You can argue the degree to which restricting firearms will limit these incidents b/c there is no doubt SOME persons will still find weapons and commit terrible acts. But it's ridiculous not to acknowledge that restricting guns will have SOME positive effects in prevention b/c (a) some will not go through the difficulty of getting a weapon, (b) some will purchase far less damaging weapons instead, and (c) it gives law enforcement a better ability to track and monitor criminals trying to obtain illegal guns to catch them at that point rather than once it has progressed to the violent act itself.

That argument does NOT hold water. You can argue the degree to which it would aid the problem, but not the fact that it WOULD help the problem. That is an asenine argument only put forward by gun owners and gun nuts, not by individuals who study policy and social impacts.

I am not arguing anything. I replied to something Bossman said that was very much related.

A very good point Bossman. I am not going to lie and say that I do not enjoy shooting my AR15 because I do. It is a awesome weapon but I am not the problem because I am always insure safety is prioirty #1 and my guns are not only locked up in a safe but they also have tamper proof trigger locks on them while in the safe.

Old saying "ban guns and only outlaws will have guns" is true. It would take years and years to remove all guns of any type from the general public. It is for sure a very tricky subject and not one easily overcome. I do not hold the answers on how to stop lunatics from doing this stuff. I wish I did.

 

[Forty_Sixand2]

This would be a great statement if their weren't TONS of first world countries with more strict gun laws than us that have far safer societies than us.

You can argue the degree to which restricting firearms will limit these incidents b/c there is no doubt SOME persons will still find weapons and commit terrible acts. But it's ridiculous not to acknowledge that restricting guns will have SOME positive effects in prevention b/c (a) some will not go through the difficulty of getting a weapon, (b) some will purchase far less damaging weapons instead, and (c) it gives law enforcement a better ability to track and monitor criminals trying to obtain illegal guns to catch them at that point rather than once it has progressed to the violent act itself.

That argument does NOT hold water. You can argue the degree to which it would aid the problem, but not the fact that it WOULD help the problem. That is an asenine argument only put forward by gun owners and gun nuts, not by individuals who study policy and social impacts.

There is a heavy amount of literature out there concerning gun control laws and gun violence. it is pretty one-sided, but I will withhold judgement. I study violence epidemiology and wrote some pieces in that area while in grad school. Use Google Scholar and look around. It is really fascinating what some of the results tell us.

I will say this: Events like this would likely not be stopped by any gun laws. There are nut jobs who just don't care about laws and the world is riddled with easy to acquire assault rifles because nations don't have a proper method for the disposal of weapons of war. It is an ongoing problem. This is not to say that gun control is not a good idea, just that it likely would not stop something as surreal and insane as this.


That is all that I am going to say on the topic, but I ask you to go to google scholar and look around.

One last caveat:

Even if we, the US and Canada properly disposed of weapons of war (and both countries have been caught selling them to other nations) and accounted for every one, unfortunately other poor governments and gangster regimes would not, so it is not as simple as that. It is a terrible debacle we have gotten ourselves into.

It's not that simple.

Gun saturation levels are the big issue. Unfortunately, gun control has not done much to stop that. I am not sure what the solution is, but as long as we arm soldiers, and other countries arm soldiers, the deadliest of weapons will be available. It is a sad state of affairs.

 

[Comeds]

Japan has some of the most enveloping gun control laws of any democratic country. They have gone above and beyond to eliminate gun violence in their society.

A Land Without Guns: How Japan Has Virtually Eliminated Shooting Deaths - Max Fisher - The Atlantic

A good read on Japanese gun violence

That could be a difference, maybe the difference. My response was mainly about forms of entertainment being a factor.

 

[Forty_Sixand2]

Also, the policy and literature to assess the impacts of gun control laws are readily available here:

"gun control" AND "gun violence" - Google Scholar

"gun control laws" AND "gun ownership" - Google Scholar

 

[Forty_Sixand2]

We need to reduce the amount of guns available. I am not convinced that gun control can do that. It is clear that more guns = more crime. What is also clear is that gun control will not reduce the amount of guns. That is where the disconnect is.

 

[evolver115]

That could be a difference, maybe the difference. My response was mainly about forms of entertainment being a factor.

Did u see that quote box I took from the article?

The Japanese gov't forces potential gun owners to take a psych exam before the purchase is authorized(as well as a physical exam), and then requires a new eval every three years.

Maybe we need something like this.

 

[puckhead]

The U.S. gun homicide rate is 20 times the combined rate of other western nations.

http://www.politifact.com/virginia/...m-moran-says-us-gun-homicide-rate-20-times-h/