OT: Shooting in Oregon Mall

[fordman84]

Public health officials can override HIPAA in the event of a threat to public safety. This was meant to stop infectious disease spread but the verbiage is loose for a reason. The legislation is there, now how do you implement it. I would call this a public safety issue for sure. It is going to be tough to say who can and who can't purchase a gun. Claustrophobia and social anxiety are mental illnesses. Does Billy's fear of giving speeches mean he shouldn't be able to buy a gun?

It is a tough thing to work through for sure.

I think linking mental health with buying a gun would be a waste of time. This latest kid didn't buy any of his guns, last I heard they were his moms. I'm afraid the only answer will be to make more help available, less stigmatized, and more affordable as well.

 

[dash]

Can we have a go to contact person that we can report someone as being "fucking crazy" to? If enough people report that person then maybe you can look into it? Hey 18 people have called the hotline to mention they think the kid that kills small animals down the block might have a problem, boom they can look to see what his deal is and find out he's been purchasing large amounts of fertilizer.

It's not a bad idea, although you could see how easily it could be abused (i.e. personnel vendettas). Where do you draw the line on neighbours being good neighbours and neighbours overstepping other people's rights?

 

[fordman84]

It's not a bad idea, although you could see how easily it could be abused (i.e. personnel vendettas). Where do you draw the line on neighbours being good neighbours and neighbours overstepping other people's rights?

Similar to the terrorism thing "see something, say something"? It has the potential for abuse, but short of putting watchdog-types in every neighborhood, you just have to rely on the community to weed out the abusers. If you have one person that reports someone 10 times, maybe check both people out. If you get 3 people reporting one person, then check that one person out.

 

[whyoh]

Gun Show Loophole? What Gun Show Loophole? | The Truth About Guns

 

[abaskin18]

Gun Show Loophole? What Gun Show Loophole? | The Truth About Guns

Then no one should mind if the same background checks and waiting periods required to buy from gun stores were enforced at gun shows too.

I know, I know. Who am I to say how long you have to wait before you get your toys?

 

[dash]

i'm glad i was heard here....i don't care what ford says about you hockey guise....y'all are ok by me

Right back at you...Thanks for your contributions to this thread (and others as well, yeah that's right, I see you put your two bits in from time to time).

 

[jstewismybastardson]

You're going to see a lot of political wrangling over this (from both sides) in the next few weeks and the sad part is they will not accomplish a damn thing.

if what happened doesnt result in some changes ... what will?


interesting

The political clout of the NRA, long a Washington truism, is also being newly questioned. The powerful lobby has long inspired fear for its ability to pour money into campaigns against lawmakers who vote against its priorities -- $24 million since 2011, mostly devoted to opposing Democrats running for Congress, according to the Sunlight Foundation. But that spending was notably ineffective in 2012. The NRA spent $9 million trying to defeat President Obama and elect Mitt Romney, to little effect; the overwhelming majority of candidates it supported lost, and candidates it opposed won. In fact, among independent-expenditure groups that spent money on the 2012 election, the NRA had the lowest return-on-investment of any group. Less than half of 1 percent of its spending resulted in the desired outcome.

Among independent-expenditure groups that spent money on the 2012 election, the NRA had the lowest return-on-investment of any group. The result, McCarthy told me, is a lot of members of Congress who feel neither beholden to nor intimidated by the gun lobby

 

[whyoh]

Then no one should mind if the same background checks and waiting periods required to buy from gun stores were enforced at gun shows too.

I know, I know. Who am I to say how long you have to wait before you get your toys?

but that's what i'm saying....all of the laws that apply outside of the show apply inside of the show


all FFL dealers inside of the gun show have to adhere to the same regulations and paperwork that the adhere to inside their shops.....the people with booths that aren't ffl dealers aren't selling guns

 

[fordman84]

Then no one should mind if the same background checks and waiting periods required to buy from gun stores were enforced at gun shows too.

I know, I know. Who am I to say how long you have to wait before you get your toys?

Isn't that what the linked article says already happens?

Every law that applies outside gun shows applies inside the doors. Federal Firearms Licensees (a.k.a., gun dealers or FFLs) at a gun show must fill out their ATF Form 4473s and do their FBI background (NICS) checks just as if they were at their shops (or their homes for that matter).

 

[BOSSMANPC]

if what happened doesnt result in some changes ... what will?


interesting

The political clout of the NRA, long a Washington truism, is also being newly questioned. The powerful lobby has long inspired fear for its ability to pour money into campaigns against lawmakers who vote against its priorities -- $24 million since 2011, mostly devoted to opposing Democrats running for Congress, according to the Sunlight Foundation. But that spending was notably ineffective in 2012. The NRA spent $9 million trying to defeat President Obama and elect Mitt Romney, to little effect; the overwhelming majority of candidates it supported lost, and candidates it opposed won. In fact, among independent-expenditure groups that spent money on the 2012 election, the NRA had the lowest return-on-investment of any group. Less than half of 1 percent of its spending resulted in the desired outcome.

Among independent-expenditure groups that spent money on the 2012 election, the NRA had the lowest return-on-investment of any group. The result, McCarthy told me, is a lot of members of Congress who feel neither beholden to nor intimidated by the gun lobby

The NRA is already starting to push back.....

"If we're going to have a conversation, then let's have a comprehensive conversation," said one industry source. "If we're going to talk about the Second Amendment, then let's also talk about the First Amendment, and Hollywood, and the video games that teach young kids how to shoot heads.

"If you really want to stop incidents like this," the source continued, "passing one more law is not going to do a damn thing. Columbine happened when? In 1999. Smack in the middle of the original assault-weapons ban."


read more....
NRA to 'push back' soon, sources say | Fox News


jstew I'm not saying I agree but there will be a shit fight over this.

 

[whyoh]

what i do know is that every purchase i've made at a gun show i've had to go through the same process as i did when buying guns at a gun shop....the only difference is that it was in a crowed, loud, and uncomfortable atmosphere

 

[abaskin18]

but that's what i'm saying....all of the laws that apply outside of the show apply inside of the show


all FFL dealers inside of the gun show have to adhere to the same regulations and paperwork that the adhere to inside their shops.....the people with booths that aren't ffl dealers aren't selling guns

I read the article, and I hear what you're saying in addition to what was written. I do not believe, however, that there aren't any firearms transactions without background checks and waiting periods at those shows. If you are expecting me to believe that all firearms transactions at gun shows are on the up and up, well, I'd need a lot more convincing.

Regardless, I don't think Gun Shows is anywhere close to the most important fight. It's just another place where people who couldn't get guns through more regulated avenues can get them, and it's a fight that could be won.

 

[puckhead]

Yup, right up until someone's entire post was " Texas". It stopped being enlightened right then.

so after a tragic school shooting, government officials in Texas (therefore presumably representing the state) immediately suggest adding MORE guns to the mix.
if that doesn't warrant a , I don't know what does.
my sister lives in texas, in an upscale neighborhood close to Houston. Total suburbia, tons of kids around. Well, last summer someone's pet tiger got loose (yes, a fucking pet tiger in the middle of suburbia) - the police were more concerned about the loose cannons coming out of the woodwork for the chance to go tiger hunting thanthey were about the damage the tiger would do.
so yeah, "Texas " is a short post, but it still says a lot. If Oregon or Florida or Ontario also made the news by living up their stereotype so blatantly, they would get the same reaction.

oh wait, this person also thought adding more guns to the mix would be a good idea. Snowball's rollin'.
Utah Kid Who Brought Gun to Class Claims Parents Armed Him for Protection Following Sandy Hook Shooting

 

[abaskin18]

what i do know is that every purchase i've made at a gun show i've had to go through the same process as i did when buying guns at a gun shop....the only difference is that it was in a crowed, loud, and uncomfortable atmosphere

If only you could speak for everyone.

 

[jstewismybastardson]

The NRA is already starting to push back.....


read more....
NRA to 'push back' soon, sources say | Fox News


jstew I'm not saying I agree but there will be a shit fight over this.

nope not yet boss ... theyre waiting for things to die down before making a public comment ... plus gun sales are up during this period of everyone calling for bans

 

[fordman84]

so after a tragic school shooting, government officials in Texas (therefore presumably representing the state) immediately suggest adding MORE guns to the mix.
if that doesn't warrant a , I don't know what does.
my sister lives in texas, in an upscale neighborhood close to Houston. Total suburbia, tons of kids around. Well, last summer someone's pet tiger got loose (yes, a fucking pet tiger in the middle of suburbia) - the police were more concerned about the loose cannons coming out of the woodwork for the chance to go tiger hunting thanthey were about the damage the tiger would do.
so yeah, "Texas " is a short post, but it still says a lot. If Oregon or Florida or Ontario also made the news by living up their stereotype so blatantly, they would get the same reaction.

oh wait, this person also thought adding more guns to the mix would be a good idea. Snowball's rollin'.
Utah Kid Who Brought Gun to Class Claims Parents Armed Him for Protection Following Sandy Hook Shooting

Well not having anyone within 5 minutes that could stop this person wasn't a great solution, so lets put everything on the table...like the person in your article stated. Did you even take the time to read my response? I'm guessing not, or you chose to ignore it in this reply.

 

[jstewismybastardson]

what i do know is that every purchase i've made at a gun show i've had to go through the same process as i did when buying guns at a gun shop....the only difference is that it was in a crowed, loud, and uncomfortable atmosphere

just curious what's uncomfortable about the shows?

 

[fordman84]

I read the article, and I hear what you're saying in addition to what was written. I do not believe, however, that there aren't any firearms transactions without background checks and waiting periods at those shows. If you are expecting me to believe that all firearms transactions at gun shows are on the up and up, well, I'd need a lot more convincing.

Regardless, I don't think Gun Shows is anywhere close to the most important fight. It's just another place where people who couldn't get guns through more regulated avenues can get them, and it's a fight that could be won.

So now you have stopped those under the table sales from happening at gun shows.

Instead they walk out to their cars and do the under-the-table deal. Outlawing something that is already against the law won't do much. I get what you are saying, but it is already illegal and being ignored so what is another law going to do?

 

[BOSSMANPC]

nope not yet boss ... theyre waiting for things to die down before making a public comment ... plus gun sales are up during this period of everyone calling for bans

You're right jstew. I did read where guns sales have gone up again because of this like they do every time something like this happens.

Sad.

Edit: I'm going on 4 hours sleep in the last two days so my mind is slower than normal. If that's possible..

 

[puckhead]

Well not having anyone within 5 minutes that could stop this person wasn't a great solution, so lets put everything on the table...like the person in your article stated. Did you even take the time to read my response? I'm guessing not, or you chose to ignore it in this reply.

no, I did miss it, and for that I apologize.
there were a lot of pages in a very short amount of time.

I'll go back and find it.