OT: Shooting in Oregon Mall

[dare2be]

That's still just manners. I think the kindness and goodness that Darkstone talked about is still there. But I've always said that cycnicism is higher on a message board than it is in real life, so I'm not surprised there are more negative views than positive ones on the whole here. I agree with you on the manners, but not the other stuff.

My cynicism is from a direct interaction of my daily life. I find it less and less desirable to even go out in public anymore (shopping, entertainment, errands, etc) just because of the greater frequency that I will have interactions with selfish pricks.

Of course, as was mentioned before, it varies by area. Before I moved from Pittsburgh, it wasn't as bad as it is here.

 

[elocomotive]

I keep hearing the talking heads saying we need to get guns off the street. Well, gun control may make a small dent in that, but it will not make much of a difference. They are there. Most of the war machine guns did not get there from Bass Pro Shops.

The guy in Colorado bought his weeks before. There's one prevention right there.

You keep saying MOST!!! But most automatically implies it will help SOME!!!

Why are you being so fucking dense about this? Nobody said it is a panacea, problem solved, pack up shop. We're saying it's a good first step since it offers some benefits and since having automatic weapons offer...hmmm... ZERO public benefits.

 

[Winged_Wheel88]

The guy in Colorado bought his weeks before. There's one prevention right there.

You keep saying MOST!!! But most automatically implies it will help SOME!!!

Why are you being so fucking dense about this? Nobody said it is a panacea, problem solved, pack up shop. We're saying it's a good first step since it offers some benefits and since having automatic weapons offer...hmmm... ZERO public benefits.

Don't come running to me when the zombie apocalypse begins on December 21st.

 

[Forty_Sixand2]

I am saying that virtually every article in the criminology and public health shows that gun control has zero impact so it seems to be a waste of time.

People are trying to cure a virus by giving antibiotics. I deal in the world of evidence based decisions not emotional responses to tragedy.

 

[elocomotive]

Don't come running to me when the zombie apocalypse begins on December 21st.

Shotguns are best against zombies anyway.

 

[elocomotive]

I am saying that virtually every article in the criminology and public health shows that gun control has zero impact so it seems to be a waste of time.

People are trying to cure a virus by giving antibiotics. I deal in the world of evidence based decisions not emotional responses to tragedy.

And I don't? Here's an emotional response - fuck you, condescending prick.

Every basic statistic that a 4-year old can figure out shows that we have FAR more guns than any other first world country and FAR more homicide by gun than any other first world country. You don't need a PHD in public health to figure it out. Gun control can, has, and does work when applied properly and combined with other preventative measures.

 

[evolver115]

My cynicism is from a direct interaction of my daily life. I find it less and less desirable to even go out in public anymore (shopping, entertainment, errands, etc) just because of the greater frequency that I will have interactions with selfish pricks.

Of course, as was mentioned before, it varies by area. Before I moved from Pittsburgh, it wasn't as bad as it is here.

Funny you mention that, because I noticed the same thing when i moved from SoCal to Pittsburgh. People are nicer here. It is noticeably different.

 

[Forty_Sixand2]

Lets axe HiPAA while we are at it. Public Health officials are allowed to supersede the ridiculous restrictions in the case of public safety. Well, this is public safety. Look at mental health records before selling guns.

 

[Darkstone42]

If I'm not mistaken, it's harder right now to apply for a passport than to own a gun. I'm not even advocating making some guns illegal. I'm just asking for a more thorough application process to help weed out some unstable people who might plan a mass killing, or even as simple as folks who might go after someone in the heat of passion because of an affair or something.

 

[Forty_Sixand2]

And I don't? Here's an emotional response - fuck you, condescending prick.

How am I being condescending. I provided links to research. I am an Epidemiologist. This is kind of exactly what I do for a living. I wish gun control could help. Evidence says.....it doesn't. Sorry.

 

[Forty_Sixand2]

If I'm not mistaken, it's harder right now to apply for a passport than to own a gun. I'm not even advocating making some guns illegal. I'm just asking for a more thorough application process to help weed out some unstable people who might plan a mass killing, or even as simple as folks who might go after someone in the heat of passion because of an affair or something.

I absolutely agree with you, hence my HIPAA comment from above.

 

[elocomotive]

...Look at mental health records before selling guns.

...which is a form of gun control which you say doesn't work.

 

[Forty_Sixand2]

...which is a form of gun control which you say doesn't work.

Where did I say that? I have no issue with background checks. I have a problem with wasting time on useless legislation.

How did the handgun ban work in DC? You live there.

 

[Darkstone42]

Where did I say that? I have no issue with background checks. I have a problem with wasting time on useless legislation.

How did the handgun ban work in DC? You live there.

Changing the application process to get a gun would be considered a restriction, and therefor classifies as gun control. It might be useless to make guns illegal, or to make certain guns illegal, but changing the application process could be (and probably would be) an effective gun control measure.

 

[evolver115]

Changing the application process to get a gun would be considered a restriction, and therefor classifies as gun control. It might be useless to make guns illegal, or to make certain guns illegal, but changing the application process could be (and probably would be) an effective gun control measure.

It definitely would be.

However, that measure probably wouldn't have stopped today's violence, seeing as how they were mom's guns.

Still can't quite figure out why mom needs a Glock, a Sig and a .223 AR. She had expensive tastes in firearms, that is for sure.

 

[Winged_Wheel88]

I certainly hope people are speaking out of emotion. There have been way too many "fuck yous" in this thread. I just skimmed the convo.

 

[Forty_Sixand2]

I am fine with stricter registration. I do not see that as "gun control" and the articles that I showed involved banning sales of certain guns.

Increasing the background check/mental health check would be a good first start. It is still pulling the leaf off the weed and leaving the root, but it may have some impact.

However, to attack the root, we have to identify it and figure out how to intervene on that level. I would argue the drug trade which seems to lead the illegal ams trade which supersaturates the market is a great way to intervene on this base level. How do we intervene? Legalization? A shift in the war on drugs to quit targeting users and target producers? International agreements to fight the multi-billion dollar trade? Secure the borders? I don't know.

We live in a very free society which is awesome, but also leaves us vulnerable. As I said earlier, this doesn't happen in Riyadh, but none of us want to live in Riyadh.

 

[Forty_Sixand2]

I certainly hope people are speaking out of emotion. There have been way too many "fuck yous" in this thread. I just skimmed the convo.

Not from this guy. I like the debate. I am not sure why eloco is so mad. I can't seem to find a post where I was mean or attacking people.

 

[evolver115]

I certainly hope people are speaking out of emotion. There have been way too many "fuck yous" in this thread. I just skimmed the convo.

I have been speaking out of my deep concern for this overall issue pretty much since I heard about it this morning. Especially with the Oregon slaying just a couple days ago. In fact, I can't sleep right now because of it.

 

[Winged_Wheel88]

I have been speaking out of my deep concern for this overall issue. In fact, I can't sleep right now because of it.

Just remember that the people who disagree with you have the same level of concern as you, ok?