OT: Politics and other stuff that is sure to piss everyone off

[Hokie200proof]

This isn't as up-to-date as I'd like, but I found the top of the list to be too ironic not to post:

Per Capita Government Spending By State (circa 2005)

 

[Forty_Sixand2]

As H200 mentioned. There is no such thing as discourse anymore. Watch some of the debates from the 1970s and 1980s, and compare them to the talking point, vhildish, name calling in the most recent elections.

Watch some episodes of "Firing Line", which you can find on Youtube and compare them to Bill Maher or Sean Hannity shows. The former disagreed vehemently but forwarded the discussion and were respectful of each other and the audience. The latter dumb it down, name call and disrespect our ability to think critically by pandering.

Bump because I don't want this buried at the bottom of the las page.

 

[MattB4VT]

barack hussein and willard mitt will be running against each other this coming election. better forty six? and our political system is just so F'ed up in so many ways, that I really just dislike the federal government. more power needs to be given back to the states and the individuals. federal government should be more for oversight, and protecting the states and the individuals.

 

[Chrish1023]

Haha I love how this is actually a politics thread now.

Not to sound dramatic, but we're doomed. Politicians are too self serving and have no interest in doing what's best for the country. Federal dollars are being allocated terribly and the deficit is only going to keep increasing. Here's a few ways to fix the problem:

1. Get rid of lobbyists. They waste SOOO much money and advocate spending on the wrong things.
2. Eliminate political parties. This well never happen, but it has to if things are going to get better.
3. Spend money better. Too much money spent on military. Too much money spent on stupid research topics. Not enough money spent of public infrastructure. I'm a civil engineer so I might be biased, but infrastructure is one of the best investments a government can make. Money should also be spent on alternative energy sources since oil will be gone within the next half century or so.
4. Stop wasting time on gay marriage and abortion and whatever other stupid shit is a "big deal". WHO CARES. Let people do what they want. Is anyone adversely affected by this happening? If anything, abortion should be encouraged since our population is increasing to a point where we will exhaust our natural resources.

 

[hokiecheme11]

Haha I love how this is actually a politics thread now.

Not to sound dramatic, but we're doomed. Politicians are too self serving and have no interest in doing what's best for the country. Federal dollars are being allocated terribly and the deficit is only going to keep increasing. Here's a few ways to fix the problem:

1. Get rid of lobbyists. They waste SOOO much money and advocate spending on the wrong things.
2. Eliminate political parties. This well never happen, but it has to if things are going to get better.
3. Spend money better. Too much money spent on military. Too much money spent on stupid research topics. Not enough money spent of public infrastructure. I'm a civil engineer so I might be biased, but infrastructure is one of the best investments a government can make. Money should also be spent on alternative energy sources since oil will be gone within the next half century or so.
4. Stop wasting time on gay marriage and abortion and whatever other stupid shit is a "big deal". WHO CARES. Let people do what they want. Is anyone adversely affected by this happening? If anything, abortion should be encouraged since our population is increasing to a point where we will exhaust our natural resources.

^^^ This guy gets it

 

[MattB4VT]

take this next post as seriously as possible. at least until you think about it for a second. then can disagree all you want. this is merely a shell of an idea.

I think a second secession would help restart the system. I would of course be on board for joining the South. Combine as one for global issues, national defense, etc, but allow the South to have its own government; free from government interference, political corruption, and tyranny. Then, everyone will see how well it works.

 

[MattB4VT]

i bet none of you guys would ever want this to happen, but i personally, would love the idea of never having to deal with federal government.

 

[MattB4VT]

im doing all of this from class, mind you. Indoctrination U.

 

[Sleepy T]

Haha I love how this is actually a politics thread now.

Not to sound dramatic, but we're doomed. Politicians are too self serving and have no interest in doing what's best for the country. Federal dollars are being allocated terribly and the deficit is only going to keep increasing. Here's a few ways to fix the problem:

1. Get rid of lobbyists. They waste SOOO much money and advocate spending on the wrong things.
2. Eliminate political parties. This well never happen, but it has to if things are going to get better.
3. Spend money better. Too much money spent on military. Too much money spent on stupid research topics. Not enough money spent of public infrastructure. I'm a civil engineer so I might be biased, but infrastructure is one of the best investments a government can make. Money should also be spent on alternative energy sources since oil will be gone within the next half century or so.
4. Stop wasting time on gay marriage and abortion and whatever other stupid shit is a "big deal". WHO CARES. Let people do what they want. Is anyone adversely affected by this happening? If anything, abortion should be encouraged since our population is increasing to a point where we will exhaust our natural resources.

Agree 100%. Damn right we are doomed. Until the federal government is broken up in some way shape or form from what is is today..right now..nothing will change. It will just keep on tickin along while the bureaucrats stuff their pockets with lobbyist money, the poor get poorer (depending on who the president is they might get richer??), and the middle class continues to shoulder the load in respect to what they have to work with. I choose to vote for who best represents myself and my family..and OUR interests the most. Unfortunately it doesn't matter, because they are all fucking crooks. They would never allow someone who TRULY represented what America stands for and the interests of Americans get into office. Because that would fuck up all the crookedness that they have took so much time to build. I don't like to talk about what ifs and conspiracy theories and all that stuff...but all of these Doomsday preppers might honestly have it figured out. When/IF this government collapses and the americans have had enough..you had better be ready in many, many ways. It will happen one day..it is destined to happen. I am beginning to think that it needs to happen...

I say we get Jesse "The body" Ventura into office...why not???

 

[MattB4VT]

"They would never allow someone who TRULY represented what America stands for and the interests of Americans get into office." VTSparks

Amen.

 

[Forty_Sixand2]

Secession but not secession? I don't follow.

Also, what things currently run by the Feds would you like to see fall to the responsibility of the states.

 

[Hokie200proof]

Haha I love how this is actually a politics thread now.

Not to sound dramatic, but we're doomed. Politicians are too self serving and have no interest in doing what's best for the country. Federal dollars are being allocated terribly and the deficit is only going to keep increasing. Here's a few ways to fix the problem:

1. Get rid of lobbyists. They waste SOOO much money and advocate spending on the wrong things.
2. Eliminate political parties. This well never happen, but it has to if things are going to get better.
3. Spend money better. Too much money spent on military. Too much money spent on stupid research topics. Not enough money spent of public infrastructure. I'm a civil engineer so I might be biased, but infrastructure is one of the best investments a government can make. Money should also be spent on alternative energy sources since oil will be gone within the next half century or so.
4. Stop wasting time on gay marriage and abortion and whatever other stupid shit is a "big deal". WHO CARES. Let people do what they want. Is anyone adversely affected by this happening? If anything, abortion should be encouraged since our population is increasing to a point where we will exhaust our natural resources.

Probably not going to be a very popular statement. But, some freakenomics studies I've seen would tend to agree with you.

#1 is easily solved if people would look behind the curtain just a little to see who sponsors almost all of the candidates on both sides. Even then, Lobbyists/Super PACs can only work if the voting public allows it. And we do... almost without any objection at all... and always have. Most people in America live their lives in enough security and comfort that they have the luxury of ignoring politics altogether (Good luck doing that in a country where a Military Junta is a loud fart away from taking over the country - see many parts of ASEAN, South/Central America). As a result, most of the voting public is ignorant about how state/federal governance can (and has) adversely affect their lives and their future. I have a tough time believing this to be a coincidence as those who have reaped the largest benefits from our current (and widely unchanged) system have amassed immense fortunes over the past 50-100 years, aided by legislation passed by politicians and candidates that they've fiscally supported.

I think this (has and) will always be a problem, and I don't see any tenable solution to fight it. Just an cursory survey of Facebook, Youtube comments, Message Boards, etc suggest that we are regressing in the areas of logic, critical thinking and discourse. Our attention spans are dwindling. We'd much rather spend our idle time entertaining ourselves than sacrificing it to a cause greater than ourselves (I am not exception as I post this to a Virginia Tech sports board, something that is a complete and utter waste of time outside of the personal enjoyment I receive from visiting here). These are complicated issues and they need hard-wrought solutions. You can't fit this into a 3-6 second sound byte or one town-hall meeting. I don't see these adverse effects reversing when we've got a populous that already regularly texts and surfs the web while driving. (I swear I was the only person not texting at a red light today)

In order for a revolutionary change to occur, you would need either a) an immense fortune which could command a large media/advertising/marketing voice to convince large numbers of people to think and act differently or b) a populous that cares enough to engage each other in dialogue and follow it up with a unified change in behavior in order to end political abuses that have existed since our country's founding.

I'll continue to take a long position in c) Nothing will change until something catastrophic changes everything.

 

[sparko]

take this next post as seriously as possible. at least until you think about it for a second. then can disagree all you want. this is merely a shell of an idea.

I think a second secession would help restart the system. I would of course be on board for joining the South. Combine as one for global issues, national defense, etc, but allow the South to have its own government; free from government interference, political corruption, and tyranny. Then, everyone will see how well it works.

I can see why one might think that this would work but I don't see how adding an extra layer of government would help so you'd have to explain that a little more.

federal > some north/south in between government > state government

i could see us separating into multiple "countries" based on certain circumstances but that would put some people at a huge advantage and others at a huge disadvantage, depending of what each state has to offer. i think that we're fine as 50 states if we make the federal government smaller and let the fed deal with ONLY country-wide things (national defense for one). let the states handle everything else

46 makes a good point about a GOOD politican being able to change his/her mind -- they should be able to .. and they should be able to compromise on some things too -- it's not always black and white and most americans are in the middle on a lot of things -- why can't a politician be??

... and chrish has it right on .. i was in the military and saw enough to KNOW that too much was being spent on the military .. but most military members only cared that bases were being shut down .. blah blah .. quit spending time/money dealing with stuff that has no place in the government .. gay marriage-who cares? not the government's business. abortion? it's a personal choice and religion needs to be left out of it (not sure how someone can be for the death penalty and against abortion--death is death). you'll never get rid of political parties but do this instead -- hold a combined national primary 6 months before the election. top 3, regardless of party, are in ... and they get the same cash to campaign with .. that evens the playing field

... i'm also an advocate of creating another branch of government .. that makes laws that apply to the government (campaign finance, term limits for example). we can expect our politicians to make laws that are best without regard to how it personally benefits them -- but they're never going to.

 

[Hokie200proof]

An interesting idea Matt. However, I think it wouldn't be in the breakaway region's best interest as it would essentially be volunteering to create a second-world (borderline third-world) country from a GDP standpoint... if you meant the South re-seceding. The first trade negotiation between the newly formed countries of "The South" and "Everyonelseistan" would be for a generous aid package to keep Alabama, Mississippi, Kentucky and Tennessee afloat through the end of the year (much like the federal system currently provides).

Hell, Northern Virginia tried to break away from the rest of Virginia because rich bastards (of which I hope to count myself among someday) were tired of propping up the rest of the state.

Makes me think of funny t-shirt I've yet to buy (hard to justify history humor apparel on a tight budget):

 

[sparko]

Probably not going to be a very popular statement. But, some freakenomics studies I've seen would tend to agree with you.
... maybe a little barbaric and China-ish but it may get worse. As I see it, we're not the biggest problem as a country with the depletion of the world's natural resources, except for oil. China is starting to mow through the world's resources at a rate that makes us meek in comparison.

I have a tough time believing this to be a coincidence as those who have reaped the largest benefits from our current (and widely unchanged) system have amassed immense fortunes over the past 50-100 years, aided by legislation passed by politicians and candidates that they've fiscally supported.
It is definitely no coincidence

I think this (has and) will always be a problem, and I don't see any tenable solution to fight it. Just an cursory survey of Facebook, Youtube comments, Message Boards, etc suggest that we are regressing in the areas of logic, critical thinking and discourse. Agreed but it doesn't have to be this way. We're on a message board but this thread and its comment prove that there are plenty of critical thinkers. We're just using a different medium.

In order for a revolutionary change to occur, you would need either a) an immense fortune which could command a large media/advertising/marketing voice to convince large numbers of people to think and act differently or b) a populous that cares enough to engage each other in dialogue and follow it up with a unified change in behavior in order to end political abuses that have existed since our country's founding.
You don't need A in my opinion. The internet is enough. If it's worth becoming viral, it can be made viral easily ... B is the problem. People can say they care all they want but are they really going to change enough to make a difference?? In most cases, I'd say no.

I'll continue to take a long position in c) Nothing will change until something catastrophic changes everything Yup

 

[Jhalf]

Itll get worse before it gets better, but the revolution is happening

rp ftw!

 

[Hokie200proof]

In order for a revolutionary change to occur, you would need either a) an immense fortune which could command a large media/advertising/marketing voice to convince large numbers of people to think and act differently or b) a populous that cares enough to engage each other in dialogue and follow it up with a unified change in behavior in order to end political abuses that have existed since our country's founding.
You don't need A in my opinion. The internet is enough. If it's worth becoming viral, it can be made viral easily ... B is the problem. People can say they care all they want but are they really going to change enough to make a difference?? In most cases, I'd say no.

I'd like to believe you... but I offer up the following counterpoint/case-study:

Kony 2012

Even a premise that has seemingly no conceivable opposition (that we must work together to stop an evil fucker in Africa who is kidnapping kids, killing their parents, mutilating kids/people, using girls as sex slaves, etc, etc, unspeakable crimes against humanity, etc, etc) developed a loud and eventually overpowering counter reaction that seems to have squashed it.

I haven't seen any Kony 2012 crap near my office (Downtown DC) nor home (NOVA). Other than mentioning it here, I haven't seen mention of it for a month, including on the "launch day" of April 20th. I'd grant you that the movement lost steam (or died) due to the fact that the face of the organization went nuts, but that's part of my point. He couldn't handle the fact that people disagreed with something that couldn't possibly be disagreed with. Who could even argue that the world is better with Kony running around Africa? No one argued he was wrong, but they dissected and then brutalized his efforts/approach... some even went so far as to dig up some dirt on him to try to discredit him. No one ever engaged him on his premise, they just presented distractions and occupied the movement's time with unrelated or invalid complaints and criticisms. As a result, dude fucking lost it, and probably ended the whole thing. Without a leader, a movement is much potent.

I don't even think the counter-Kony reaction was politically motivated. It just happened because people were tired of hearing messages about a crazed dictator in Africa filling up twitter, Facebook, etc. It reach a breaking point and it turned... hard.

Now take a movement against the most powerful, rich and connected organization/people who have worked to ensure division and a resulting stasis in the United States (and possibly the world). Even if you get a ground swell of people, even if it's a large number of people who are driven, dedicated, united and intelligent, the powers-that-be will crush it using the very same mediums. Yes, you'll generate some buzz, but eventually the counter-point influence will shift the momentum back unto you like a Tsunami. They'll have all the resources to be able to discredit leaders, to create disparaging and catchy counter-points that will have mass-appeal and accessibility and they will occupy your time with distractions and nonsensical objections in every forum.

In the end, all they'll have to do is sit and wait. Eventually the public will tire of your cause and go back to their lives as normal. They only way I see this truly changing is if their lives can never go back to normal (large-scale war through revolution, large-scale collapse of financial system, large-scale loss of life due to natural disaster).

 

[sparko]

Since you put it that way, you're probably right

 

[Hokie200proof]

Since you put it that way, you're probably right

HAha!!! YEeeaahhh!! I win at politics!!!

YOU LOSE!!! YOU CHANGED YOUR MIND (or at least gave up the opposition for a minute)!!!

 

[rmilia1]

This isn't a political issue. However, we can HOPE that we will CHANGE the residents of the White House come election time. Virginia. Florida. Ohio. Honestly, those states are the most important, and will decide the election. Aka why Barack Hussein is sending his wife to coming to politicize a day that should be about kids reaching a dream they have worked a majority of their lives for. Steger made a deal when he was up there In DC, in exchange for the dismissal of the fines.

That would be something that is political. not my opinion on some state we don't need with abandoned trailers every 5 miles in the desert haha. props to VTFF for that one.

Strange. A overtly racist and non-sensical thread started by a right winger... That NEVER happens.