OT -- Nelson Mandela died today at age 95

[whysies]

Ghandi helped free an entire nation from a Colonial ruler. King significantly improved the lot of a small minority group of people of one nation. To say that King's goal was not to improve the lot of his own people is disengenuous at best. A brave man who stood up for his people but not a national hero.

(doesn't know the definition of the word small)
(is ignorant of the entirety of American history)
(has never heard of the "I Have a Dream Speech" or anything Martin Luther King did)
(is an embarrassment to humanity)

 

[whysies]

Me too. The politicians who sucumbed to the political pressure to place King above all other great Americans should be ashamed of themselves. Frankly, the thought of it is ludicrous

Yeah, if only Martin Luther King had ever been imprisoned for his struggle. Maybe then you would think he was a hero.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

Ghandi helped free an entire nation from a Colonial ruler. King significantly improved the lot of a small minority group of people of one nation. To say that King's goal was not to improve the lot of his own people is disengenuous at best. A brave man who stood up for his people but not a national hero.

Of course that was part of his goal, but his work wasn't limited to that singular goal. As said above, last I checked, segregation ended for all minorities. Not to mention that a tremendous number of the "blacks" MLK was standing up for were also part white. Though I'm sure you don't count them as such.

Why is George Washington a hero?

 

[TobyTyler]

Well call me crazy, but I'd say living in a country that no longer espouses segregation betters your life. Though I'm sure you'd happily go back to segregation. Beyond that, MLK did a lot of good work for poor people in general toward the end of his life. And, you know, other minorities who were also subject to segregation. Or are we limiting ourselves to "whites" and "others"?

Out of curiosity, what did Lincoln do that had a tremendous effect outside this country? Why is Teddy Roosevelt a hero? Is Stalin a hero? He arguably did more to win WWII than any other world leader. And certainly more than Churchill.

No. I see how ending segregation bettered the lives of Blacks and they deserved to have their lives bettered but I can't see how it bettered mine. My life in California was exactly the same when they had segregation in the south as it was when Kennedy and Johnson ended it. My life remained the same.

Lincoln saved this country through the force of his determination and will as did Churchill. Because of Lincoln, this country became the greatest country the world has ever known. Can you say King did that? Can you say that King deserves a national holiday in his name while Lincoln does not?

 

[elw4corps]

Toby it is nice to know that the suffering of others is inconsequential to you because they are far away in a country that has nothing to do with you or enhances or impedes on your life. Honestly, as a black man I am going to stay away from the MLK discussion because it will be like talking to people who believe that the confederacy was fighting for a way life that had nothing to do with slavery

 

[Crimsoncrew]

No. I see how ending segregation bettered the lives of Blacks and they deserved to have their lives bettered but I can't see how it bettered mine. My life in California was exactly the same when they had segregation in the south as it was when Kennedy and Johnson ended it. My life remained the same.

Lincoln saved this country through the force of his determination and will as did Churchill. Because of Lincoln, this country became the greatest country the world has ever known. Can you say King did that? Can you say that King deserves a national holiday in his name while Lincoln does not?

Why are you hung up on the day? Whether he has a day named after him or not is inconsequential to this discussion.

If your life was unchanged by segregation ending, I pity you. I really do. That's one of the saddest things I've ever heard.

Lincoln saved a single country from civil war. So did Mandela, he just managed to do so before the war began. And South Africa in the late-20th century was at least as consequential on the world stage as the US was in the mid-18th century.

 

[TobyTyler]

In Who is Trolling the 49er Board This Hour news-

NolanNonsense ownplays the positive impact that MLK had on the lives of all Americans, racebaits



Most of the Seahawks fans who post here might be functionally retarded but at least they aren't willfully racist. I'd rather no trolls but I'll take them over this garbage.

Its not an argument based on racism its a logical view based on personal observation and a thorough understanding of the political mess that creates such nonsense. If you don't think the King holiday was based on a decision of inclusion of a voting bloc and political expediency rather than national heroism, you are blind. King is a man to be admired, but then so is my father in my opinion.

 

[TobyTyler]

Oh, and re: the only person with a day named after him, last I checked we also have Columbus Day, Lincoln's Birthday, Washington's Birthday, and Cesar Chavez Day in CA. Then of course there's Christmas, Valentine's Day, St. Patrick's Day, etc.

Columbus was not an American last I heard and those other days are not national holidays. I said King is the only American to have a national holiday named for him. C'mon now.

 

[whysies]

No. I see how ending segregation bettered the lives of Blacks and they deserved to have their lives bettered but I can't see how it bettered mine. My life in California was exactly the same when they had segregation in the south as it was when Kennedy and Johnson ended it. My life remained the same.

Lincoln saved this country through the force of his determination and will as did Churchill. Because of Lincoln, this country became the greatest country the world has ever known. Can you say King did that? Can you say that King deserves a national holiday in his name while Lincoln does not?

Lincoln has a holiday.

Considering this country was built on the backs of slaves and initiated arguably the worst long-standing system of state-approved racial oppression and he was one of the greatest figures to help bring it down, yeah, I'm cool with honoring MLK day.

Your life didn't get better because you were racist then and you're racist now.

 

[elw4corps]

No. I see how ending segregation bettered the lives of Blacks and they deserved to have their lives bettered but I can't see how it bettered mine. My life in California was exactly the same when they had segregation in the south as it was when Kennedy and Johnson ended it. My life remained the same.

Lincoln saved this country through the force of his determination and will as did Churchill. Because of Lincoln, this country became the greatest country the world has ever known. Can you say King did that? Can you say that King deserves a national holiday in his name while Lincoln does not?

King made this country live up the creeds and ideals that were writing at the founding of this nation but refused to actually live up to them and he changed this country through determination and will, so yes I can say that. Lincoln and Washington both originally had holidays off but they combined them into presidents day which celebrates all presidents. You know just because something doesn't directly impact you does not mean the action someone takes is less remarkable or incredible. Malala Yousafzai actions had no impact on me but her courages acts in her country are remarkable and deserve praise because in the dark she made a stand after knowing that her life was in danger.

 

[TobyTyler]

Of course that was part of his goal, but his work wasn't limited to that singular goal. As said above, last I checked, segregation ended for all minorities. Not to mention that a tremendous number of the "blacks" MLK was standing up for were also part white. Though I'm sure you don't count them as such.

Why is George Washington a hero?[/QUOTE]

A great leader, whose military vicories set us on the path to have the greatest opportunities and live in the greatest country the world has ever known. You should be thankful men like him existed.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

Columbus was not an American last I heard and those other days are not national holidays. I said King is the only American to have a national holiday named for him. C'mon now.

You didn't say national holiday. You just said day. Patently false.

You did say American. Feel free to remove Columbus and the religious folks from my list.

 

[TobyTyler]

Lincoln has a holiday.

Considering this country was built on the backs of slaves and initiated arguably the worst long-standing system of state-approved racial oppression and he was one of the greatest figures to help bring it down, yeah, I'm cool with honoring MLK day.

Your life didn't get better because you were racist then and you're racist now.

No he doesn't.

 

[TobyTyler]

Lincoln has a holiday.

Considering this country was built on the backs of slaves and initiated arguably the worst long-standing system of state-approved racial oppression and he was one of the greatest figures to help bring it down, yeah, I'm cool with honoring MLK day.

Your life didn't get better because you were racist then and you're racist now.

Bullshit! Pure, unadulterated bovine excrement! Slaves built New York City, Chicago and the great centers of commerce in this country? Good lord man.

 

[whysies]

Its not an argument based on racism its a logical view based on personal observation and a thorough understanding of the political mess that creates such nonsense. If you don't think the King holiday was based on a decision of inclusion of a voting bloc and political expediency rather than national heroism, you are blind. King is a man to be admired, but then so is my father in my opinion.

Considering he spawned one of the greatest terrors the Internet has ever known I highly doubt your father is someone to be admired.

I kid of course.

But I'm serious when I say this: if you actually believe all this shit that you're saying then you're an embarrassment to this country. You're a horrible American and probably an even worse person. It makes me sad that a monster like you would supposedly fight for our freedom and represent us to other countries around the world.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

Of course that was part of his goal, but his work wasn't limited to that singular goal. As said above, last I checked, segregation ended for all minorities. Not to mention that a tremendous number of the "blacks" MLK was standing up for were also part white. Though I'm sure you don't count them as such.

Why is George Washington a hero?[/QUOTE]

A great leader, whose military vicories set us on the path to have the greatest opportunities and live in the greatest country the world has ever known. You should be thankful men like him existed.

Who is us? Seems to me that blacks were worse off following the Revolution.

 

[TobyTyler]

Toby it is nice to know that the suffering of others is inconsequential to you because they are far away in a country that has nothing to do with you or enhances or impedes on your life. Honestly, as a black man I am going to stay away from the MLK discussion because it will be like talking to people who believe that the confederacy was fighting for a way life that had nothing to do with slavery

Ya, that's the biggest crock of shit I've ever heard. How can you claim you are fighting for individual freedom and rights when your whole country is built on denying that to others?

The sufferings of others are not inconsequential to me. I'm just saying whether they suffered or were happy had no impact on my life growing up.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

Bullshit! Pure, unadulterated bovine excrement! Slaves built New York City, Chicago and the great centers of commerce in this country? Good lord man.

Slaves throughout the south. Indentured servants and slaves built much of the original infrastructure on the northeast coast, including Boston, NYC and Philadelphia. Not to mention the role the triangle trade played in developing the economies of northeastern cities.

 

[elw4corps]

Bullshit! Pure, unadulterated bovine excrement! Slaves built New York City, Chicago and the great centers of commerce in this country? Good lord man.

No slavery was just the oil that ran the machine that allowed those cities to be built

 

[Xponentialchaos]

Oh look. Toby disagrees with everyone again.