Ortiz and the HOF

[DaBoltsNIsles]

My reasoning for not wanting Ortiz in he hall of fame has nothing to do with the DH. Howeverk, if Martinez isn't in Ortiz shouldn't be in. My reasoning is I think he used Peds. He played like crap in Minnesota. All of a sudden he becomes one of the best hitters in baseball. Sorry, I don't buy it.

 

[soxfan1468927]

My reasoning for not wanting Ortiz in he hall of fame has nothing to do with the DH. Howeverk, if Martinez isn't in Ortiz shouldn't be in. My reasoning is I think he used Peds. He played like crap in Minnesota. All of a sudden he becomes one of the best hitters in baseball. Sorry, I don't buy it.

Great detective work... Or we could just point to the failed drug test

 

[navamind]

My reasoning for not wanting Ortiz in he hall of fame has nothing to do with the DH. Howeverk, if Martinez isn't in Ortiz shouldn't be in. My reasoning is I think he used Peds. He played like crap in Minnesota. All of a sudden he becomes one of the best hitters in baseball. Sorry, I don't buy it.

2002: 120 OPS+
2003: 144 OPS+

Because, you know, players *never* get better at the age of 28. And there have been much bigger spikes than that. Ortiz always had power. He slugged .461 with the Twins and he even hit 18 HR in 89 games in 2001 (slugging .475 despite having a low BA of .234).

http://www.minorleagueball.com/2013/9/8/4705644/prospect-retrospective-david-ortiz

He shouldn't go the hall of fame because his numbers fall short.

 

[Bulldog]

He's a great power hitter but he's a hitter only. The HOF is for baseball players who play the complete game not just one dimensional. This is exactly what I was afraid of when the designated hitter rule first came into existance. Someone who can only hit getting into the HOF, geez the HOF has been watered down enough as it is. While a very good hitter he doesn't belong in the HOF.

_________________________________

Let me give my reasoning behind my belief he shouldn't be a HOF. There were everyday players who played defense with as good offensive numbers as Ortiz not in the HOF. They played through all sorts of injuries inflicted while playing defense; pull groins, hamstrings, sprains, bruises, an assortment of broken bones, and the simple fatigue of playing everyday. Something Ortiz never had to deal with, if he was injured it certainly wasn't from playing defense.

Players who played defense and with similar numbers as Ortiz certainly deserve the HOF morwe than Ortiz. It appears to me that Yankees and Red Sox players because of there higher profile, which can be attributed to the media, seem to think they deserve it more than others or maybe it's just their fans that feel that way.

 

[da55bums]

3 or 4 championships will really pretty solidify his HOF.

 

[broncosmitty]

He'd need a few more nice years somewhere near the production of this past one for it to be not be a simple popularity contest. (Can he get to 500 homers? does it even matter anymore?)Lots of high quality two-way guys are waiting their turn. Hate for them to keep waiting while Big Papi spits in his gloves and steps up to the podium at Cooperstown.

 

[Steelboy84]

Borh should be in. Papi's postseason performances should more than punch his ticket.

 

[Clayton]

David Ortiz will be 38 in a few days. He's a good year and a half older than Beltran who Hammerdown has been trying to convince us is on PEDs all year. And Ortiz has been busted with PEDs before. And there has been at a point in time where people thought Ortiz was done.

And now he's batting over .700 in the World Series

Its not hard to build enough speculation to keep him out of the HOF and baseball is as conservative as it gets

 

[MilkSpiller22]

David Ortiz will be 38 in a few days. He's a good year and a half older than Beltran who Hammerdown has been trying to convince us is on PEDs all year. And Ortiz has been busted with PEDs before. And there has been at a point in time where people thought Ortiz was done.

And now he's batting over .700 in the World Series

Its not hard to build enough speculation to keep him out of the HOF and baseball is as conservative as it gets

Unlike our legal system, steroids you are guilty until proven innocent... Thats just the way it is!!! so therefore, Ortiz will not make it!!!

 

[steveringo]

A new article from the Courant:

Jeff Jacobs Column: David Ortiz and John Lackey in limelight for Red Sox - Courant.com

Nobody's expectations are higher than Big Papi's, and the higher they rise the more he has exceeded them. In a series where both lineups are begging for hits, Ortiz is hitting a beer-league softball 11-for-15. His OPS is 2.017, which, oh, p.s., is ridiculous. And just for good measure, he went Pacino in "Any Given Sunday" with a rousing dugout speech in Game 4.

"It was like 24 kindergartners looking up at the teacher," Gomes said.

"We weren't the Red Sox," Daniel Nava said. "We were the Boston Ortizes."

"The epitome of a superstar and a good teammate," Jon Lester said.

"That's why we call him 'Cooperstown,'" David Ross said.

Those are powerful words from teammates.

Ortiz needs no redemption, really, from Red Sox fans. They all love him, most unconditionally. Ortiz's deliverance is a little more complex and outlying than Lackey's. It involves not only the Hall of Fame-voting members of the BBWAA but also the national baseball dialogue on performance-enhancing drugs that has dragged on for years.

Maybe it's Ortiz's absolute joy for the game. Maybe it's the joy Ortiz brings to those who watch him play. There is something transcendent about the man, transcendent enough to alter arguments.
When it comes to Cooperstown, a player's performance in the postseason should count plenty and for me, as a voter, it probably counts more than others. It counts for Jack Morris. It counts for Curt Schilling. It should count for Ortiz.

Ortiz has played more than 85 percent of his games as the DH and that will be held against him even as he comes closer to hitting 500 home runs. Should DH be a consideration? Absolutely. Yet the DH issue is something the game's gatekeepers ultimately must solve. Frank Thomas, who played more than half his career at DH, is going to roar into Cooperstown. This should lead to some re-evaluation of Edgar Martinez. And watching Ortiz play the field in the World Series, it is a reminder that some fairly shoddy fielding first basemen, third basemen and left fielders have long been enshrined in Cooperstown.

Yet the redemptive story of Ortiz really has nothing to do with the DH. You know it. I know it. It's about The New York Times report that Ortiz and Manny Ramirez tested positive for performance-enhancing drugs in 2003 in what was supposed to be an anonymous and confidential survey test.
"I never buy steroids or use steroids," Ortiz said in a Yankee Stadium press conference in 2009. He said he was careless about the vitamins and supplements he bought in the Dominican Republic. As I sat there that day listening to him did I believe Ortiz?

Not entirely.

Did I want to believe Ortiz?

Absolutely.

The road to PED forgiveness is made easier for those who give a heartfelt apology. The road to Cooperstown is not necessarily easier. It still depends on the voter's convictions.

Some say let them all in.

Some say let none of them in.

One seems immoral. One seems unnecessarily punitive, especially since we deal with so many unknowns. I admit. I don't pretend to have the answer. We don't even know what Ortiz used.

 

[Jims_Doors]

"I never buy steroids or use steroids," Ortiz said in a Yankee Stadium
press conference in 2009. He said he was careless about the vitamins and
supplements he bought in the Dominican Republic

Don't think it's a coincidence that a lot of PED users who have been caught are from the Dominican Republic.

The dude can barely run to first but has the bat speed to consistently hit 96mph fastballs??

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Don't think it's a coincidence that a lot of PED users who have been caught are from the Dominican Republic.

The dude can barely run to first but has the bat speed to consistently hit 96mph fastballs??

Not sure about you but if was born in a latin country, poor and unprivelaged in all ways, i would take steroids too to get my first paycheck... After my first paycheck everything is a bonus!!! I could save family, and myself...

 

[Bulldog]

Borh should be in. Papi's postseason performances should more than punch his ticket.

Post season performances usually don't and shouldn't influence voting for the HOF. It's a players performance during the regular seasons that counts. There are those that never make it to post season.

 

[da55bums]

Post season performances usually don't and shouldn't influence voting for the HOF. It's a players performance during the regular seasons that counts. There are those that never make it to post season.

you seriously can't think that...just look at the Yankees in the HOF, some of them made it, just because of the post seasons on their resume.

 

[navamind]

Post season performances usually don't and shouldn't influence voting for the HOF. It's a players performance during the regular seasons that counts. There are those that never make it to post season.

It shouldn't be held against them. But ignoring postseason performance is dumb. Especially in the case of guys like Smoltz and Jeter, who played about a season's worth of games in the postseason. Smoltz has 209 postseason IP. Jeter has over 700 plate appearances.

 

[Steelboy84]

It shouldn't be held against them. But ignoring postseason performance is dumb. Especially in the case of guys like Smoltz and Jeter, who played about a season's worth of games in the postseason. Smoltz has 209 postseason IP. Jeter has over 700 plate appearances.

Smoltz also has at least 200 wins and at least 150 saves, only pitcher to do that.

 

[navamind]

Colin Cowherd insinuates that David Ortiz is using steroids | Larry Brown Sports

Ortiz very well may have used steroids, but Cowherd still sounds like a complete tard. Ortiz was shot in 2011 when he batted .309/.398/.554 (154 OPS+)? And was he not coming off a pretty serious wrist injury in the beginning of '09?

"Entire World Insinuates that Colin Cowherd is a Douche"

 

[navamind]

Red Sox David Ortiz?s pep talk could be signature moment in this World Series - Sports - The Boston Globe

On the other hand, this is pretty asinine as well.

 

[briz almighty]

papi has proven to be clutch time and time again.

 

[Steelboy84]

There is no way in hell he doesnt get into the HOF.