Ortiz and the HOF

[navamind]

Y! SPORTS

I really don't see the case for him right now. Edgar Martinez was a better hitter and not too many people think he should get in (I think he should though).

Edgar: .312/.418/.515, 147 OPS+ in 8674 PA
Ortiz: .287/.381/.549, 139 OPS+ in 8249 PA

Ortiz was a much better power hitter, but Edgar got on base a lot more. Not to mention Edgar was actually a good 3rd baseman before the hamstring injury. Ortiz has played just over 200 games at 1B. Edgar also has 24.1 more WAR.

 

[steveringo]

If they had a separate DH category, he'd get in.

Maybe they should add a DH category?

 

[navamind]

I do think it's funny that people are against letting DH's in, but they'll vote for relief pitchers. Edgar shouldn't be in, but Bruce Sutter deserves to be?

 

[Tacoma_canuck]

I do think it's funny that people are against letting DH's in, but they'll vote for relief pitchers. Edgar shouldn't be in, but Bruce Sutter deserves to be?

It makes no sense to say the DH is too specialized and then let a bunch of relief pitchers in. I have no problem with Mo getting in. He deserves it more than any of the others, or at least as much as any of them but some of them are questionable, to say the least.

FWIW, I think both Edgar and Big Papi deserve it.

 

[Wazmankg]

No and I think their are very few pure relievers who deserve to me in either.

 

[Brahmsian]

I do think it's funny that people are against letting DH's in, but they'll vote for relief pitchers. Edgar shouldn't be in, but Bruce Sutter deserves to be?

Relievers, closers especially, rate being in the HOF

How many mediocre starters have deceptively good W-Ls because their teams had reliable closers?
No way of telling statistically, but it has to be a very large number.

 

[podsox]

it is the baseball hall of fame. the dh is part of baseball. it is beyond stupid to not include them in the hall of fame because they didnt play the field. al startinf pitchers only play the field. maybe they should be left off the ballet too.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

people are haters naturally... there is no reason for DH not to make the HOF... Especially since Offense is generally the main factor to make the HOF...

 

[Cobiemonster]

I think Big Papi has to be in the hall of fame - he's been a very good hitter for many years(the regular season numbers are consistently good) and he is one of the best postseason hitters of all time - honestly in my opinion it's a no brainer

 

[ImSmartherThanYou]

Good post. Ortiz should have to wait for Edgar to get in, and then he should have to wait for all the superior PED users to get in before he ever gets to strut into Cooperstown.

But we all know that's not happening. Ortiz is going to stroll into the HOF as the first full-time DH ever because he's so popular and has had so many big moments. It's a shame, but it's reality. Not only does Ortiz simply not belong on the basis of his career performance, but there are so many players currently out of the HOF who deserve it long before he does. Edgar Martinez, despite actually playing a position for a portion of his career (and playing it well) and being a better hitter, is never getting in.

What makes it even more puzzling is that Ortiz is going to get in despite being a known PED user, while so, so, so many others are going to be left out on the basis of PEDs without even having anything but rumors and suspicions attached to their names. Meanwhile, Ortiz has a failed test and no one mentions it at all. Of course, I don't think PED use should keep a player out of the HOF, but I am very much against hypocrisy and double standards.

 

[ImSmartherThanYou]

I think Big Papi has to be in the hall of fame - he's been a very good hitter for many years(the regular season numbers are consistently good) and he is one of the best postseason hitters of all time - honestly in my opinion it's a no brainer

He really hasn't been good for that long. He's been a good hitter for 10 years. He's had some great years, but he's also had some flat-out bad years in there as well. His resume comes up very, very short. And he's not one of the best postseason hitters of all-time, actually. Very good, and has had lots of great moments, but he's nowhere near guys like Ruth, Gehrig, Mantle, or Beltran. He's in the top 10-15 probably, which is great, but not "one of the greatest".

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Good post. Ortiz should have to wait for Edgar to get in, and then he should have to wait for all the superior PED users to get in before he ever gets to strut into Cooperstown.

But we all know that's not happening. Ortiz is going to stroll into the HOF as the first full-time DH ever because he's so popular and has had so many big moments. It's a shame, but it's reality. Not only does Ortiz simply not belong on the basis of his career performance, but there are so many players currently out of the HOF who deserve it long before he does. Edgar Martinez, despite actually playing a position for a portion of his career (and playing it well) and being a better hitter, is never getting in.

What makes it even more puzzling is that Ortiz is going to get in despite being a known PED user, while so, so, so many others are going to be left out on the basis of PEDs without even having anything but rumors and suspicions attached to their names. Meanwhile, Ortiz has a failed test and no one mentions it at all. Of course, I don't think PED use should keep a player out of the HOF, but I am very much against hypocrisy and double standards.

Either way he will not be a first balloter... More because of the idiots who vote than because of his borderline HOF numbers...

there are a couple voters who do not vote for any first year players- these people should have their votes be taken away

There are plenty of voters who will not vote for a DH- these voters should also get their votes taken away

There are many voters who are not hypocrites and dont vote for anyone they think took steroids...

 

[David_son]

I was going to say exactly that until Edgar Martinez gets into the HOF Pappi doesnt have a shot.

 

[ImSmartherThanYou]

I was going to say exactly that until Edgar Martinez gets into the HOF Pappi doesnt have a shot.

He *shouldn't* have a shot until Edgar gets in, but that won't be reality. The voters are clueless and not only do most writers overrate Ortiz, but most of them have no idea how great Edgar was.

 

[ImSmartherThanYou]

He *shouldn't* have a shot until Edgar gets in, but that won't be reality. The voters are clueless and not only do most writers overrate Ortiz, but most of them have no idea how great Edgar was.

Further to this post, I just about guarantee Ortiz gets a higher percentage of the vote in his first year of eligibility than Edgar has ever gotten, and that's despite being a known PED user.

 

[Clayton]

What makes it even more puzzling is that Ortiz is going to get in despite being a known PED user, while so, so, so many others are going to be left out on the basis of PEDs without even having anything but rumors and suspicions attached to their names. Meanwhile, Ortiz has a failed test and no one mentions it at all. Of course, I don't think PED use should keep a player out of the HOF, but I am very much against hypocrisy and double standards.

I do think you'll see some resistance when it comes to letting him in

 

[ImSmartherThanYou]

I do think you'll see some resistance when it comes to letting him in

I normally would agree, but for some reason, especially with the way he's been slobbered over this postseason, my gut tells me he'll coast into the HOF with relative ease in his 2nd or 3rd year of eligibility.

 

[BF4L]

Go figure Yankee's fans calling out Papi for PED use...holy shit

 

[Clayton]

I normally would agree, but for some reason, especially with the way he's been slobbered over this postseason, my gut tells me he'll coast into the HOF with relative ease in his 2nd or 3rd year of eligibility.

Yeah, but you can't open the floodgates. Theyll slobber over him now but when it comes to voting, they'll look at things a little more clearly and go conservative.

 

[Bulldog]

He's a great power hitter but he's a hitter only. The HOF is for baseball players who play the complete game not just one dimensional. This is exactly what I was afraid of when the designated hitter rule first came into existance. Someone who can only hit getting into the HOF, geez the HOF has been watered down enough as it is. While a very good hitter he doesn't belong in the HOF.