Oops Neal did it again

[Winged_Wheel88]

I'm still shocked Neal didn't get suspended.

 

[awaz]

The difficulty too is that some of these scumbags are getting to be pretty good at the hockey aspect of the game too, and not just as enforcers. Downie had over 20 goals one year with TBL. Even Cooke can play decent hockey when he gets his head out of his ass.

And what do you do with a scumbag like Dustin Brown (I'm not picking on him just because you're a Kings fan, I just think he's one of the biggest scumbags in the league but gets off easy because of the superstar slot on the Wheel)? No question the guy can play hockey, but we could put together a "greatest hits" compilation that would rival a lot of those other guys (or Kneel).

i haven't seen a ton of western conference games this season, but i think you could probably take neal's name out and put brown's in there and that article still has the same effect.

 

[dash]

I think it has to start with much harsher suspensions/fines - I'd bet most of these guys laugh at two game suspensions, especially with a condensed schedule due to the Olympics (most of them look forward to the break, I reckon). Start giving out 8, 12, 16 game suspensions and these guys will definitely start to take notice.

 

[Cobiemonster]

The difficulty too is that some of these scumbags are getting to be pretty good at the hockey aspect of the game too, and not just as enforcers. Downie had over 20 goals one year with TBL. Even Cooke can play decent hockey when he gets his head out of his ass.

And what do you do with a scumbag like Dustin Brown (I'm not picking on him just because you're a Kings fan, I just think he's one of the biggest scumbags in the league but gets off easy because of the superstar slot on the Wheel)? No question the guy can play hockey, but we could put together a "greatest hits" compilation that would rival a lot of those other guys (or Kneel).

Dustin Brown, I think, plays a much harder overall game than let's say, James Neal - it seems out of character for James Neal to do what he has been doing - I don't know what is in his head honestly, maybe guys like Sid don't get on him enough and he bites the bait whenever there are shenanigans that go on(Flyers/Pens or Bruins/Pens when incidents occur in those games) - Dustin Brown plays an overall hard game and that's not necessarily an excuse for whatever he's done in the past, but I would think that rarely he does things completely intentional, but I'm sure that because of his physical nature, he does try to at least make it physical enough to where he can wear down other players(he's actually wore himself down this season and last with all the physical play he's had in his career)

 

[sabresfaninthesouth]

I think it has to start with much harsher suspensions/fines - I'd bet most of these guys laugh at two game suspensions, especially with a condensed schedule due to the Olympics (most of them look forward to the break, I reckon). Start giving out 8, 12, 16 game suspensions and these guys will definitely start to take notice.

I'm all in favor of that, providing that it starts on day 1 of the season. I'm not in favor of them suddenly making an example of someone 65+ games into a season. Announce during the off-season though that suspensions are going to be much harsher and enforce it from day 1.

 

[sabresfaninthesouth]

Dustin Brown, I think, plays a much harder overall game than let's say, James Neal - it seems out of character for James Neal to do what he has been doing - I don't know what is in his head honestly, maybe guys like Sid don't get on him enough and he bites the bait whenever there are shenanigans that go on(Flyers/Pens or Bruins/Pens when incidents occur in those games) - Dustin Brown plays an overall hard game and that's not necessarily an excuse for whatever he's done in the past, but I would think that rarely he does things completely intentional, but I'm sure that because of his physical nature, he does try to at least make it physical enough to where he can wear down other players(he's actually wore himself down this season and last with all the physical play he's had in his career)

Sorry, but there's no defense for his penchant for kneeing people. And his elbow to Pominville's head that he (eventually) got suspended for was completely intentional. Or his attempt at a flying elbow that (thankfully) missed a guy's head because he was also being kneed by Brown at the same time.

 

[Cobiemonster]

Sorry, but there's no defense for his penchant for kneeing people. And his elbow to Pominville's head that he (eventually) got suspended for was completely intentional. Or his attempt at a flying elbow that (thankfully) missed a guy's head because he was also being kneed by Brown at the same time.

No doubt, that's where I'm saying there's no excuse for it - but it just baffles me that two players who have done similar things in the past are contrasting players - one player is historically more physical while the other isn't really a physical player - like I said, I don't know what is in James Neal's head when he does these things, it's just really odd

 

[sabresfaninthesouth]

No doubt, that's where I'm saying there's no excuse for it - but it just baffles me that two players who have done similar things in the past are contrasting players - one player is historically more physical while the other isn't really a physical player - like I said, I don't know what is in James Neal's head when he does these things, it's just really odd

 

[evolver115]

see i think there is a place for getting under the opponents skin. i think it's pretty widely known that if you get under malkin's skin, not only does he become less effective for the pens, but he also starts taking penalties. there's definitely room in the game for that type of behavior. i mean you list downie and rinaldo on there, and i don't blame you for that based on their histories, but neither of them have been suspended or fined, and i can't think of an instance where there was even a review this year for either of them. they've played those roles effectively this season (at least, rinaldo has, downie sucks), while staying on the right side of the line. max talbot is another one, and i hate his guts, but he stays on the right side of the line more often then not. and i'm sure there are other agitators that stay the course, i just dont watch enough to eliminate labels on other guys.

Just because they haven't done anything recently hardly absolves them of their past. Both players have been involved in very questionable situations in their careers. Rinaldo did this only three months ago:

Flyers' Rinaldo jumps Stars' Roussel, gets 27 PIM in 4 seconds | Hockey | Sports | Toronto Sun

I don't think you need me to link you to any of Downie's transgressions. He has a slew of them. Bottom line is these guys bring down the competition to their level. And this is hardly limited to Downie and Rinaldo. There is a player like them on practically every team in the league.

Hockey is an emotional sport. When you have players who are out on the ice for the sole purpose of drawing the types of reactions that people are discussing here, why do we act surprised when they occur? That's what they're being paid to do.

And as I said before, I'm not defending Neal in any way. He has definitely made some dirty plays in his career and he deserves the ridicule he receives.

 

[dash]

I was listening to Jeff Marek last week (he's a Sportsnet hockey guy here in Canada) and he actually said that he believes there is more respect between players in the league today than there has been at any point prior. I had to reverse the PVR a couple of times to make sure I had heard him correctly.

 

[awaz]

Just because they haven't done anything recently hardly absolves them of their past. Both players have been involved in very questionable situations in their careers. Rinaldo did this only three months ago:

Flyers' Rinaldo jumps Stars' Roussel, gets 27 PIM in 4 seconds | Hockey | Sports | Toronto Sun

I don't think you need me to link you to any of Downie's transgressions. He has a slew of them. Bottom line is these guys bring down the competition to their level. And this is hardly limited to Downie and Rinaldo. There is a player like them on practically every team in the league.

Hockey is an emotional sport. When you have players who are out on the ice for the sole purpose of drawing the types of reactions that people are discussing here, why do we act surprised when they occur? That's what they're being paid to do.

And as I said before, I'm not defending Neal in any way. He has definitely made some dirty plays in his career and he deserves the ridicule he receives.

i'm guessing you missed this one, or i made it while you were typing

oh ya, i'm not gunna say that either of them should be labeled clean players by any means. i just mean to say that that role can be played, on the right side of the line, and be an effective position in the NHL, without injuring opponents with cheap hits

i don't mean to say either of those guys are clean, friendly hockey players. i was just using them as an example of playing that role, without the cheap stuff, and being effective. which, they have been this season. i'm sure there are better examples out there, of guys who agitate that are actually considered clean, i just can't think of any.

i don't like the idea of getting rid of 'agitators' because some of, or even most of, them cross the line. i think agitators can have a very vital role in a team's run to a cup and it can be done cleanly and without incident, as long as the rules are clearly defined and enforced, and the guy doing the agitating isn't a complete baffoon.

 

[element1286]

#askneal on twitter, pretty funny stuff.

 

[element1286]

With all these concussions from elbows, can we get rid of the hard cap elbow pad? To me any good they do by preventing injuries to the arm, have been completely undone by them being weaponized. Same with shoulder pads. I'm willing to risk more shoulder/arm injuries for less concussions.

I tried to buy new elbow pads this christmas for roller hockey, almost impossible to find a decent pair without a hard cap. Was tempted to just buy lacrosse pads.

 

[evolver115]

i'm guessing you missed this one, or i made it while you were typing



i don't mean to say either of those guys are clean, friendly hockey players. i was just using them as an example of playing that role, without the cheap stuff, and being effective. which, they have been this season. i'm sure there are better examples out there, of guys who agitate that are actually considered clean, i just can't think of any.

i don't like the idea of getting rid of 'agitators' because some of, or even most of, them cross the line. i think agitators can have a very vital role in a team's run to a cup and it can be done cleanly and without incident, as long as the rules are clearly defined and enforced, and the guy doing the agitating isn't a complete baffoon.

That's really the root of the whole issue. The rules aren't clearly defined by the horrible officiating and the guys doing the agitating generally are no talent buffoons. It's a bad combination.

I recall reading you saying that an agitator is a good way to get Malkin off of his game. And you are one hundred percent right. But doesn't it seem like a strange coincidence to you that his linemate also happens to be James Neal?

He see's how other coaches like to gameplan for Malkin by getting him behind the play with the two handed slashes, and the face washes, and the spears, and the other run of the mill cheap shit that agitators like to use against him to knock him off his game.

Does it come as a surprise that Neal ends up wanting to exact his own vengeance for that? It sure doesn't make it right but hockey really is a sort of Old Testament eye for an eye game. This isn't new. It's age old. Back during Lemieux's years it was guys like Arty and Tocchet who were dealing out the cheap shots while guys like Claude Lemieux and Adam Graves were chasing Mario around the rink. It's always been part of the game. Although, I for one would like to see it go away.

 

[awaz]

That's really the root of the whole issue. The rules aren't clearly defined by the horrible officiating and the guys doing the agitating generally are no talent buffoons. It's a bad combination.

I recall reading you saying that an agitator is a good way to get Malkin off of his game. And you are one hundred percent right. But doesn't it seem like a strange coincidence to you that his linemate also happens to be James Neal?

He see's how other coaches like to gameplan for Malkin by getting him behind the play with the two handed slashes, and the face washes, and the spears, and the other run of the mill cheap shit that agitators like to use against him to knock him off his game.

Does it come as a surprise that Neal ends up wanting to exact his own vengeance for that? It sure doesn't make it right but hockey really is a sort of Old Testament eye for an eye game. This isn't new. It's age old. Back during Lemieux's years it was guys like Arty and Tocchet who were dealing out the cheap shots while guys like Claude Lemieux and Adam Graves were chasing Mario around the rink. It's always been part of the game. Although, I for one would like to see it go away.

agree completely to the first

and to the 2nd, i guess i just see the first round of 'getting under someone's skin' as part of the game, whereas the retaliatory cheap shot typically goes overboard and isn't part of the game. and i realize thats razor thin line. and i'm not totally certain neal is retaliating vs just being an asshole, but i see the point you're making for sure. i just dont want some of that stuff out of the game. i like post-whistle scrums, pushing, shoving, facewashing, etc. i think it adds to the hate, which adds to the entertainment value of the game. it just goes back to the first bold i think, you have to punish rule-breakers, and punish them significantly.

 

[element1286]

agree completely to the first

and to the 2nd, i guess i just see the first round of 'getting under someone's skin' as part of the game, whereas the retaliatory cheap shot typically goes overboard and isn't part of the game. and i realize thats razor thin line. and i'm not totally certain neal is retaliating vs just being an asshole, but i see the point you're making for sure. i just dont want some of that stuff out of the game. i like post-whistle scrums, pushing, shoving, facewashing, etc. i think it adds to the hate, which adds to the entertainment value of the game. it just goes back to the first bold i think, you have to punish rule-breakers, and punish them significantly.

FWIW, Neal was probably retaliating, Malkin had just taken a hit in the corner and went feet first into the boards, not sure Neal got the right target, but I think it had to do with that.

As for the after the whistle stuff, once you introduce that element that is is ok for that stuff to happen, you are introducing anarchy. Expecting no cheapshots, while also supporting the post whistle stuff is just not going to happen.

 

[Comeds]

With all these concussions from elbows, can we get rid of the hard cap elbow pad? To me any good they do by preventing injuries to the arm, have been completely undone by them being weaponized. Same with shoulder pads. I'm willing to risk more shoulder/arm injuries for less concussions.

That makes far too much sense.

 

[evolver115]

agree completely to the first

and to the 2nd, i guess i just see the first round of 'getting under someone's skin' as part of the game, whereas the retaliatory cheap shot typically goes overboard and isn't part of the game. and i realize thats razor thin line. and i'm not totally certain neal is retaliating vs just being an asshole, but i see the point you're making for sure. i just dont want some of that stuff out of the game. i like post-whistle scrums, pushing, shoving, facewashing, etc. i think it adds to the hate, which adds to the entertainment value of the game. it just goes back to the first bold i think, you have to punish rule-breakers, and punish them significantly.

I think the league agrees with you, too. That is why they do a half ass job of policing their game because they like the controversy. If it weren't for the potential of lawsuits, I have sincere doubts they would even make an effort to remove the head shots from the game.

 

[dash]

With all these concussions from elbows, can we get rid of the hard cap elbow pad? To me any good they do by preventing injuries to the arm, have been completely undone by them being weaponized. Same with shoulder pads. I'm willing to risk more shoulder/arm injuries for less concussions.

I tried to buy new elbow pads this christmas for roller hockey, almost impossible to find a decent pair without a hard cap. Was tempted to just buy lacrosse pads.

That makes far too much sense.

The crazy thing is Don Cherry was one of the first guys that said these hard elbow and shoulder pads needed to be changed.

 

[awaz]

FWIW, Neal was probably retaliating, Malkin had just taken a hit in the corner and went feet first into the boards, not sure Neal got the right target, but I think it had to do with that.

As for the after the whistle stuff, once you introduce that element that is is ok for that stuff to happen, you are introducing anarchy. Expecting no cheapshots, while also supporting the post whistle stuff is just not going to happen.

see i dont think that's true. i think if the NHL disciplinary system was better, you could have that. the hate can boil, but if you make it abundantly clear that cheap shots won't be tolerated, i don't think they'll happen. and if they do, those committing those cheap shots won't be playing very often.

whether or not you think the NHL disciplinary system will ever be better.. i guess that's a different story altogether.