Oops Neal did it again

[banditshcky11]

Carcillo was the really bad one I alway thought, he would constantly leave his feet to throw checks. Rinaldo is no angel he's been fined and suspended, 1 thine was for a really stupid boarding he got 2 games which he fully deserved. He has been working the past 2 seasons to avoid making questionable hits and he lets up now instead of always finishing his checks.

 

[Darkstone42]

Carcillo was the really bad one I alway thought, he would constantly leave his feet to throw checks. Rinaldo is no angel he's been fined and suspended, 1 thine was for a really stupid boarding he got 2 games which he fully deserved. He has been working the past 2 seasons to avoid making questionable hits and he lets up now instead of always finishing his checks.

The boarding is one of the hits I'm remembering. I thought I remembered him leaving his feet, too, but as you mentioned, that could have been Carcillo. Rinaldo kind of replaced him in terms of role, as I recall.

 

[banditshcky11]

He very well may have left his feet, I can't quite remember but it was an extremely stupid and dangerous body check. The flyers traded carcillo because he was out-of-control and was a penalty machine. Rinaldo did kind of come in and take his place in that role for the team. However he's much more in control and stays away from the really stupid shit that carcillo was always a part of. Carcillo had said that he wanted to break Dave Schultzes penalty minutes record for career which is absolutely ridiculous.

 

[Cobiemonster]

He very well may have left his feet, I can't quite remember but it was an extremely stupid and dangerous body check. The flyers traded carcillo because he was out-of-control and was a penalty machine. Rinaldo did kind of come in and take his place in that role for the team. However he's much more in control and stays away from the really stupid shit that carcillo was always a part of. Carcillo had said that he wanted to break Dave Schultzes penalty minutes record for career which is absolutely ridiculous.

lol I remember when he said that, I couldn't believe that - how stupid was that

 

[banditshcky11]

lol I remember when he said that, I couldn't believe that - how stupid was that

It's like saying "hey refs I intend to break the rules a lot so every time I'm on the ice you'll probably need your whistle".

Cobie correct me if I'm wrong but wouldn't you say Rinaldo despite some past indiscretions has really embraced the mentoring of Ian Lapierre in order to become a better all around contributing member to the Flyers?

 

[higgyfan4]

Everyone's favo(u)rite former agitator, Sean Avery, was eliminated from Dancing with the *cough* Stars, the first week of eliminations.

No, I did NOT watch, I read it online.

 

[dare2be]

Everyone's favo(u)rite former agitator, Sean Avery, was eliminated from Dancing with the *cough* Stars, the first week of eliminations.

No, I did NOT watch, I read it online.

Maybe he got up in his partner's face too much?

 

[dash]

Avery being eliminated from DWTS was not unexpected, I mean when he goes dancing with a woman, who leads?

 

[higgyfan4]

I can imagine the people who call in and vote for them going "Who the fuck is this obnoxious little shit? Never heard of him."

 

[KennyBanyeah]

That's really the root of the whole issue. The rules aren't clearly defined by the horrible officiating and the guys doing the agitating generally are no talent buffoons. It's a bad combination.

I recall reading you saying that an agitator is a good way to get Malkin off of his game. And you are one hundred percent right. But doesn't it seem like a strange coincidence to you that his linemate also happens to be James Neal?

He see's how other coaches like to gameplan for Malkin by getting him behind the play with the two handed slashes, and the face washes, and the spears, and the other run of the mill cheap shit that agitators like to use against him to knock him off his game.

Does it come as a surprise that Neal ends up wanting to exact his own vengeance for that? It sure doesn't make it right but hockey really is a sort of Old Testament eye for an eye game. This isn't new. It's age old. Back during Lemieux's years it was guys like Arty and Tocchet who were dealing out the cheap shots while guys like Claude Lemieux and Adam Graves were chasing Mario around the rink. It's always been part of the game. Although, I for one would like to see it go away.

Wrong!!

Gretzky was protected by Semenko. Yzerman by Probert.

Neither of these guys pulled crap like Neal. They stood a guy straight up and beat the shit out of him, or made it clear that they would. They never went around kneeing people in the head or crosschecking people in the face.

Neal is closer to the player that starts shit, rather one who protects players or retaliates against rats. Neal is a rat.

 

[evolver115]

Wrong!!

Gretzky was protected by Semenko. Yzerman by Probert.

Neither of these guys pulled crap like Neal. They stood a guy straight up and beat the shit out of him, or made it clear that they would. They never went around kneeing people in the head or crosschecking people in the face.

Neal is closer to the player that starts shit, rather one who protects players or retaliates against rats. Neal is a rat.

Classify him however you want. My comparison was to Tocchet and Stevens. That doesn't make me any less right or wrong than your comparison, other than to say the Pens have no one on their roster right now like a Probert or a Semenko. Really, there is no one left in the league like either of those two.

 

[KennyBanyeah]

Classify him however you want. My comparison was to Tocchet and Stevens. That doesn't make me any less right or wrong than your comparison, other than to say the Pens have no one on their roster right now like a Probert or a Semenko. Really, there is no one left in the league like either of those two.

Yes there are!! Carkner played that role in Ottawa to a TEE. When Boyle went after Karlsson, Carkner went after him because he was the offender.

The point is that Neal has done NOTHING with his antics to protect Malkin or Crosby. How was kneeing Marchand in the head while he was defenseless in any way sticking up for his teammates? How was crosschecking a Redwing in the head in the middle of a play deterring any further cheapshots against the Pens? How was headhunting against Couturier retribution against a dirty player?

The fact is that Neal is not a player who protects players but is rather a player that players need to be protected from.

 

[evolver115]

C'mon Kenny. Carkner has 27 points in his career. Probert and Semenko both put up more in one season.

As I've said before, I'm not here to defend Neal. He deserves the criticism he receives.

 

[Progeriakid]

Neal thinks he is untouchable and can and will do whatever he wants when he wants because all he's gonnna get is slapped with a couple games and go right back at it. This imbecile doesn't belong in the NHL, that's for the PROFESSIONALS who respect one another regardless of jersey worn, this POS should be outta hockey period, even being demoted to the AHL is a disrespect to the AHL and thier players. There should be zero tolerance with this fool, especially since he is a repeat repeat repeat repeat offender!

 

[element1286]

see i dont think that's true. i think if the NHL disciplinary system was better, you could have that. the hate can boil, but if you make it abundantly clear that cheap shots won't be tolerated, i don't think they'll happen. and if they do, those committing those cheap shots won't be playing very often.

whether or not you think the NHL disciplinary system will ever be better.. i guess that's a different story altogether.

The whole problem with supplementary discipline is relying on after the fact punishment will never be efficient. If you want the players attention start calling 5 minute pp's on the ice.

And a game that allows cheap shots in certain situations, thus escalating the level of animosity is never going to effectively remove dangerous cheapshots in all instances.

The NHL supplemental discipline has turned into a reality show circus, now every hit is subject to some stupid review process. Once you have a discipline system that in neither standard nor fair you are better off with no discipline system at all.

I'm not defending Neal's actions in general, but holy hell we have a thread about some dude getting crosschecked in the head, not being hurt, and the cross check wasn't even that malicious, and calling for suspensions. I've got cross checked in the head worse than that playing pickup roller hockey for christs sake.

The kneeing on Marchands is a completely different situation though, something was needed there.

 

[Slimpikins]

Classify him however you want. My comparison was to Tocchet and Stevens. That doesn't make me any less right or wrong than your comparison, other than to say the Pens have no one on their roster right now like a Probert or a Semenko. Really, there is no one left in the league like either of those two.

Ryane Clowe played that role for Logan Couture in San Jose. And he scored points and contributed to the team. And none of that changes the fact the Neal isn't protecting anyone, he's the one trading shots at guys.

 

[evolver115]

Ryane Clowe played that role for Logan Couture in San Jose. And he scored points and contributed to the team. And none of that changes the fact the Neal isn't protecting anyone, he's the one trading shots at guys.

Yes there are a couple enforcers left in the NHL that also can contribute on the score sheet. It's likely you can count them all on one hand. That position in the NHL is a dying breed.

 

[awaz]

The whole problem with supplementary discipline is relying on after the fact punishment will never be efficient. If you want the players attention start calling 5 minute pp's on the ice.

And a game that allows cheap shots in certain situations, thus escalating the level of animosity is never going to effectively remove dangerous cheapshots in all instances.

The NHL supplemental discipline has turned into a reality show circus, now every hit is subject to some stupid review process. Once you have a discipline system that in neither standard nor fair you are better off with no discipline system at all.

I'm not defending Neal's actions in general, but holy hell we have a thread about some dude getting crosschecked in the head, not being hurt, and the cross check wasn't even that malicious, and calling for suspensions. I've got cross checked in the head worse than that playing pickup roller hockey for christs sake.

The kneeing on Marchands is a completely different situation though, something was needed there.

it all depends on what you think is bad. to be honest with you, the cross check to the head really doesn't upset me that much, it's all the other stuff neal has done in his career (headshots against the flyers stars being my primary concern obviously) added together, most of which he's gotten away with.

and part of the NHL discipline is in-game officiating. if you want to get rid of stuff like that and giving out major penalties in the game is the answer, then so be it. if spelling out a list of offenses that come with mandatory suspensions on an escalating scale, then do that. this review board and we'll judge intent, look at the injury, bla bla bla, is just a farce. and i know we agree there. if they want to keep the review board element, have a review board determine what the list of offenses and punishments should be. IMO it should be something like this:

offenses:
1. targetting the head with an elbow, shoulder, or any other body part
2. leaving your feet to delivery a check
3. checking someone face first in to the boards
4. slew foots
5. using your stick or skate as a weapon
6. kneeing

punishments
1 offense: major penalty
2 offenses: 2 game suspension
3: 10 game suspension
4: 41 game suspension
5: season ban
6: banned from the league

i dont care what the intent was. i don't care if the guy got hurt. those are the offenses, those are the punishments.

if you don't think that would cut down on the cheap shots we've been seeing, without eliminating the agitator role, or the post-whistle skirmishes, then we'll agree to disagree and carry on with our usual hockey programming.

 

[element1286]

You know as well as I do they would never enforce such draconian suspensions, especially not across the board. And really if the league started doing that, I'd rather not watch anymore, the actual game would take a backseat to the talk of suspensions.

 

[forty_three]

3: 10 game suspension
4: 41 game suspension

Kidding... mostly.

I do have to wonder what impact mandatory suspensions/discipline would have. The biggest issue with league discipline has always been the "judgement" aspect whether it be Campbell or Shanny. Too much inconsistency.

Have the three sides (ref, player and GM) meet to review and determine if it's incidental contact. Then, look at the history and punish as needed.