Ongoing NHL thread - Part III

[dash]

I think they picked the wrong Flames defenseman as well, although Gio has picked things up as of late, Brodie has been the best Flames dman this season.

 

[Bloody Brian Burke]

I think they picked the wrong Flames defenseman as well, although Gio has picked things up as of late, Brodie has been the best Flames dman this season.

Agreed. He and Gio will make a very nice pairing at the WC next September.

 

[KennyBanyeah]

They picked them now, and since his hot streak didn't elevate him to the status of the others he still fell short I guess.

I'd take him over, say, Giroux, if we're being division-specific but Philly needed a rep so that wasn't possible, but of the other forward double was Crosby deserving over Backstrom? No.

Having said this, is he an All Star under a non-insane format? Probably.

Crosby? He hasn't been an all-star this year, IMO.

Going with the East-West thing, he's not been better than any of Malkin, Bergeron, Backstrom, Tavares or even O'Reilly. Their have been a lot more productive forwards too who heave been excluded this year in Eriksson, Camalleri, Hoffman, Ryan, Kuzy, etc.

He hasn't been good enough this year. I have no doubt he'll have a good second half though and getting the all-star break off will only help with that.

 

[elocomotive]

I am so pissed that Kessel did not make it. Only reason I was going to watch this farce was to see him line up against John Scott.

 

[Bloody Brian Burke]

Crosby? He hasn't been an all-star this year, IMO.

Going with the East-West thing, he's not been better than any of Malkin, Bergeron, Backstrom, Tavares or even O'Reilly. Their have been a lot more productive forwards too who heave been excluded this year in Eriksson, Camalleri, Hoffman, Ryan, Kuzy, etc.

He hasn't been good enough this year. I have no doubt he'll have a good second half though and getting the all-star break off will only help with that.

Yeah, you're probably right.

 

[DragonfromTO]

They picked them now, and since his hot streak didn't elevate him to the status of the others he still fell short I guess.

I'd take him over, say, Giroux, if we're being division-specific but Philly needed a rep so that wasn't possible, but of the other forward double was Crosby deserving over Backstrom? No.

Having said this, is he an All Star under a non-insane format? Probably.

If you're looking solely at this season do you think it's difficult to find a Central division snub who is having a better season than Toews? I don't think it is.

 

[KennyBanyeah]

If you're looking solely at this season do you think it's difficult to find a Central division snub who is having a better season than Toews? I don't think it is.

I don't think it is either.

 

[Bloody Brian Burke]

If you're looking solely at this season do you think it's difficult to find a Central division snub who is having a better season than Toews? I don't think it is.

NHL.com - Stats

Toews is 18th in scoring in his division, tied at 15th going on points (he has more goals than everyone he's tied on pts with). He has that despite playing most of the season with two players (Teravainen and Hossa) who aren't exactly exploding with production.

Non all-stars above him are Wheeler, Steen, Panarin, Sharp, Spezza, Mackinnon, Little, Koivu and Landeskog. Half those guys are second-liners playing against second-pairings. Shit, all of them save Steen and Koivu play alongside each other and are far better at goalscoring than Hossa or Teravainen are.

Maybe Wheeler deserves it more given he's at 40 pts, but the rest I would absolutely not drop Toews for.

 

[Bloody Brian Burke]

I don't think it is either.

Well, in that case the only guys in the Metro division with more pts than Crosby that were chosen were Ovechkin, Backstrom and Malkin, and that weren't chosen are Cami and Kuznetsov. Guess he has a better case than Toews.

 

[Bloody Brian Burke]

So many questions, few easy answers in Drouin drama

Bob seems to confirm, or at least refer to TW's report, that Rychel did indeed ask for a trade.

It's starting to look like guys drafted in the first round, particularly forwards, aren't very interested in staying in the AHL for any length of time. I know Nylander for example isn't thrilled at all about being in the A (and I don't blame him).

Going deeper, Marner has looked downright bored in the O and yet there's fuck all he or the Leafs can do about it because he isn't exactly NHL-ready yet can't play in the A.

The next CBA nego is still a ways away but at some point they're going to have to figure out a way to tell the CHL to buzz off and allow kids to play in the A right out of the draft. It won't be every draftee so the CHL will still get some stars back but who, exactly, is benefitting by Marner scoring 2 pts per game in the O right now? Would Draisaitl have been such a disaster last season if he could've spent the entire year in the WHL? Would Drouin be a Bolts regular if he didn't have to go back to Halifax for a year? It's getting stupid.

 

[dash]

I for one would not trade Sam Bennett for Drouin unless Tampa Bay added a significant piece and even then, I would be hesitant.

 

[KennyBanyeah]

Well, in that case the only guys in the Metro division with more pts than Crosby that were chosen were Ovechkin, Backstrom and Malkin, and that weren't chosen are Cami and Kuznetsov. Guess he has a better case than Toews.

He probably does have a better case. I just don't think either of them has been an "all-star" this season.

 

[DragonfromTO]

NHL.com - Stats

Toews is 18th in scoring in his division, tied at 15th going on points (he has more goals than everyone he's tied on pts with). He has that despite playing most of the season with two players (Teravainen and Hossa) who aren't exactly exploding with production.

Non all-stars above him are Wheeler, Steen, Panarin, Sharp, Spezza, Mackinnon, Little, Koivu and Landeskog. Half those guys are second-liners playing against second-pairings. Shit, all of them save Steen and Koivu play alongside each other and are far better at goalscoring than Hossa or Teravainen are.

Maybe Wheeler deserves it more given he's at 40 pts, but the rest I would absolutely not drop Toews for.

I wouldn't drop Toews for any of them because I don't choose All-Stars (in any sport) based entirely on the current season anyway, I pick the guys that I think are the best players. But I do think that more than one of them has been better (and while quality of competition measures are a little dicey Toews doesn't really stand out in that regard compared to them).

My point isn't really about all stars though but something much more general. I see such a double standard (mostly media, but that may be simply because they put more opinions out there for everyone than us non-media types) in analysis of this game. When one of "their guys" isn't scoring points we hear that playing good hockey is about so much more than just scoring points (and usually accompanied by the idea that they are more capable of seeing that than the reader). But when it's someone they wanna bash who isn't scoring the point totals get standalone cited as if they're now gospel.

 

[esls79]

I've only seen the Ducks, Kings, Canucks and Islanders in person this season and from my expert analysis only Drew Doughty and Cal Clutterbuck deserve to be all stars.

 

[KennyBanyeah]

My point isn't really about all stars though but something much more general. I see such a double standard (mostly media, but that may be simply because they put more opinions out there for everyone than us non-media types) in analysis of this game. When one of "their guys" isn't scoring points we hear that playing good hockey is about so much more than just scoring points (and usually accompanied by the idea that they are more capable of seeing that than the reader). But when it's someone they wanna bash who isn't scoring the point totals get standalone cited as if they're now gospel.

Agreed 100%.

Often it has to do with whether the player is from Stockholm or Moose Jaw but that is finally starting to change. As far as the media goes winning the Cup(s) absolves one from all sins.

Example: I've watched a number of Drew Doughty games this year and he's been walked by pretty badly in most of them. All we hear is how he's a great two-way defender (all while he's had only 1 outstanding offensive season).

When it happens to Karlsson, Klingberg or even early frigging Lidstrom they are presented as offensive defensemen who are defensively poor.

 

[Bloody Brian Burke]

I wouldn't drop Toews for any of them because I don't choose All-Stars (in any sport) based entirely on the current season anyway, I pick the guys that I think are the best players. But I do think that more than one of them has been better (and while quality of competition measures are a little dicey Toews doesn't really stand out in that regard compared to them).

My point isn't really about all stars though but something much more general. I see such a double standard (mostly media, but that may be simply because they put more opinions out there for everyone than us non-media types) in analysis of this game. When one of "their guys" isn't scoring points we hear that playing good hockey is about so much more than just scoring points (and usually accompanied by the idea that they are more capable of seeing that than the reader). But when it's someone they wanna bash who isn't scoring the point totals get standalone cited as if they're now gospel.

Maybe, but given that I've long been a defender of career-high 48 pt Kadri I sure as shit ain't gonna be wearing that label.

I've never, not once, called Toews a better player than Sid, exalted his leadership, uttered the phrase "but it's the other things he does" or any else of that Simmonsesque shit, nor do I wish to be classed with media members of that ilk. Closest I've ever come is stating I would choose Toews over Crosby were the choice ever mine to make (save in fantasy hockey). It's an opinion, I don't expect universal or even sparse agreement, and I don't really care that there are probably more ways to prove it as an ill-advised choice than a well-advised one.

 

[dash]

I've only seen the Ducks, Kings, Canucks and Islanders in person this season and from my expert analysis only Drew Doughty and Cal Clutterbuck deserve to be all stars.

Next year's candidate for NHL All-Star vote jihad.

 

[Bloody Brian Burke]

Agreed 100%.

Often it has to do with whether the player is from Stockholm or Moose Jaw but that is finally starting to change. As far as the media goes winning the Cup(s) absolves one from all sins.

Example: I've watched a number of Drew Doughty games this year and he's been walked by pretty badly in most of them. All we hear is how he's a great two-way defender (all while he's had only 1 outstanding offensive season).

When it happens to Karlsson, Klingberg or even early frigging Lidstrom they are presented as offensive defensemen who are defensively poor.

Quick is having a better season than Anderson so it's gonna be skewed a touch regardless, but the Sens are allowing more than a full goal per 60 more with Karlsson on the ice than the Kings are with Doughty. I'm not denying Doughty can get blown by on occasion, but overall LA's better defensively with him on the ice than the Sens are with Karlsson and it's really not close at the moment even when taking into account that Karlsson is better offensively.

 

[Bloody Brian Burke]

Also, and this should really go without saying, no matter how many Cups the Kings win they'll never get analysed the way guys who play in Canada or more traditional Yankee hockey markets do.

 

[DragonfromTO]

Quick is having a better season than Anderson so it's gonna be skewed a touch regardless, but the Sens are allowing more than a full goal per 60 more with Karlsson on the ice than the Kings are with Doughty. I'm not denying Doughty can get blown by on occasion, but overall LA's better defensively with him on the ice than the Sens are with Karlsson and it's really not close at the moment even when taking into account that Karlsson is better offensively.

Is any of that related to systems/style? The Kings play rather "low event" hockey in general, no?