Official Mariners arm-chair GM offseason thread

[wazzu31]

you got Yoda'd

Definitely, but also every time I wrote it came off as I hated the guy or had some vendetta against him which was too far. Zona wrote it without coming off as an asshole like I wouldve. My resolution was to try to be more positive in my life.

 

[navamind]

Let me preface this by saying I am no expert on the Red Sox farm.... But I am somewhat familiar with a few of the Red Sox prospects, Sam Travis being one of them not as familiar with Ockimey. They seem like very similar prospects in the sense that they are almost good enough at one thing to outweigh the flaws but not quite there yet. I kinda see Travis projecting as a right handed pre 2017 Yonder Alonso, as far as statistical comparisons. From the outside looking in I would give slight favor to Travis just because he has "arrived" in the majors, as far as ceiling goes Ockimey probably has the slight edge but only time will tell on that.

They both have different skill sets (Travis is more of a contact hitter and should stick at 1B, Ockimey has a lot more power potential and walks a lot but may ending up as a DH). Not that Travis is Francouer, he does seem to have a pretty good understanding of the strike zone. Pre-2017 Alonso seems like a pretty good comp for Travis, I'd also throw in James Loney and Casey Kotchman as comps. None of which really excite me. He has been pretty pedestrian since reaching AAA.

We'll have a better idea this year as Ockimey gets more experience against AA (and perhaps AAA) pitching. He started pretty strongly in 2016, but his BA cratered. He went from hitting .297/.435/.531 pre-ASB to just .152/.291/.313 after the ASB in 2016. He didn't suffer such a dropoff this year and he did pretty well in his AA debut (.272/.372/.427) though it was only 121 PA.

The Sox don't have a lot going on as far as position player prospects go, but the pitching is pretty interesting. Mata had a strong low A debut as an 18-year-old and they landed Alex Scherff and Tanner Houck in last year's draft. Jalen Beeks pitched well in AA/AAA, though the Sox have plenty of left handed starters already (including Brian Johnson who will probably start 2018 in AAA). He's probably destined for the bullpen or maybe as a trade piece.

 

[PolarVortex]

Vogelbach needs to go to an organization that is low profile with a fan base that has been perennially resigned to the fact that they have little chance to compete (i.e, no pressure). Then he needs to be given about 1000 plate appearances over a two-year period to see what he can do. With the new rabbit ball which has made 30-homer hitters out of Smoak, Morrison, and Brad Miller, Vogelbach might have a chance in an atmosphere with low expectations.

 

[EVille3]

Vogelbach needs to go to an organization that is low profile with a fan base that has been perennially resigned to the fact that they have little chance to compete (i.e, no pressure). Then he needs to be given about 1000 plate appearances over a two-year period to see what he can do. With the new rabbit ball which has made 30-homer hitters out of Smoak, Morrison, and Brad Miller, Vogelbach might have a chance in an atmosphere with low expectations.

Doesn't that organization describe the Mariners?

 

[wazzu31]

Doesn't that organization describe the Mariners?

The Mariners are one step below that. Players come here, lose all their value, go sign some minor deal somewhere else and become all star caliber players.

 

[PolarVortex]

Doesn't that organization describe the Mariners?

I guess I'm talking small market. This team hasn't been run like a small market team since Safeco opened. There just hasn't been anyone here that knows what they are doing since Gillick/Piniella.

 

[NWinAZ]

I guess I'm talking small market. This team hasn't been run like a small market team since Safeco opened. There just hasn't been anyone here that knows what they are doing since Gillick/Piniella.

I am sure everyone has noticed that the Piniella/Gillick combo was the first and last top notch duo hired in Mariners history. Why is that when it was the most successful? My theory, with them expectations were high from fans, as well as, them and that takes a lot of money and energy to maintain by upper management and ownership. A lot of franchises don't like running their businesses under those pressures. One, it is less profitable in many cases and two it puts a lot of focus on the franchise which comes with heat to constantly perform. M's take the easy and profitable road...the road to mediocrity. No pressure to win as long as the team treads water for half the season. No need to spend big on players or management. No heat from fans or media. It is the perfect sports world. Don't believe it? Then why haven't the M's hired a top rated GM or manager since the most successful duo left?

 

[wazzu31]

I am sure everyone has noticed that the Piniella/Gillick combo was the first and last top notch duo hired in Mariners history. Why is that when it was the most successful? My theory, with them expectations were high from fans, as well as, them and that takes a lot of money and energy to maintain by upper management and ownership. A lot of franchises don't like running their businesses under those pressures. One, it is less profitable in many cases and two it puts a lot of focus on the franchise which comes with heat to constantly perform. M's take the easy and profitable road...the road to mediocrity. No pressure to win as long as the team treads water for half the season. No need to spend big on players or management. No heat from fans or media. It is the perfect sports world. Don't believe it? Then why haven't the M's hired a top rated GM or manager since the most successful duo left?

I'm sure you realize by now I hate Pat Gillick and will never give him one cent of credit for anything other than screwing the organization. I will agree with Lou though, they've needed a manager who pushes the right buttons, they haven't since Lou. Alot of that though has to do with the idiocy of their GM hires. Bavasi nor Jack Z deserved a GM position and Jerry has been given way too much power as GM. But definitely agree the Mariners take the profitable path, hence every time attendance drops they do some 95 promotion.

 

[NWinAZ]

I'm sure you realize by now I hate Pat Gillick and will never give him one cent of credit for anything other than screwing the organization.

Your prerogative, but he has won 3 championships with 2 different teams and had a hand in the best years of Mariners baseball (2000 and 2001 playoffs which are the only time in franchise history we made back-to-back playoff appearances). I will take a guy that 'screws the organization' after actually accomplishing something vs one who screws the organization with nothing accomplished.

 

[SeattleCoug]

Alot of that though has to do with the idiocy of their GM hires. Bavasi nor Jack Z deserved a GM position and Jerry has been given way too much power as GM.

And that comes back to the people above the GM. Non Baseball people making decisions on who they want to be the baseball guy. In this organization the GM is the baseball guy because they refuse to take a chance on someone outside their comfort zone. Not saying La Russa would have been a good hire but that’s an example of someone who could have come in and shaken things up. Instead they went internal with Mather. So unless they get lucky and hire the right GM things won’t change. And I have no faith they know how to hire the right GM.

 

[SeattleCoug]

So our reason for optimism is it can’t get worse then last year. Swell

 

[Tapey]

So our reason for optimism is it can’t get worse then last year. Swell

Thats actually our new slogan this year.

Mariners 2018 "It cant get any worse"

 

[NWinAZ]

So our reason for optimism is it can’t get worse then last year. Swell

I read that as well and just could not generate the energy to post it. What is next, "Hey, at least we are not the A's"...lol what a joke.

 

[Tapey]

I read that as well and just could not generate the energy to post it. What is next, "Hey, at least we are not the A's"...lol what a joke.

I mean at least the As have made the playoffs a few times the last 17 years

 

[NWinAZ]

I mean at least the As have made the playoffs a few times the last 17 years

Good point.

 

[NWinAZ]

Rays sign RHP Ryan Weber to a minor league contract.

Weber spent 2017 with the Mariners after being claimed on waivers from Atlanta. The 27-year-old right-hander elected free agency after being outrighted to Triple-A Tacoma late in the season. He made one start for Seattle, and posted a shiny 0.85 ERA in 31 2/3 innings with the Rainiers in the Pacific Coast League. He should have a chance to make the Tampa Bay bullpen, but likely spends most of the year with Triple-A Durham.

 

[NWinAZ]

I know Mariners have the longest playoff drought in all major sports, but I like to think of it as all 29 other teams in MLB have made the playoffs since the start of the 2002 season except for them.

 

[SeattleCoug]

I know Mariners have the longest playoff drought in all major sports, but I like to think of it as all 29 other teams in MLB have made the playoffs since the start of the 2002 season except for them.

I always harken back to the Niehaus quote after Randy finished off the Angels. “19 long years of frustration is over”. The fact that we are getting real close to equaling that is depressing

 

[wazzu31]

Your prerogative, but he has won 3 championships with 2 different teams and had a hand in the best years of Mariners baseball (2000 and 2001 playoffs which are the only time in franchise history we made back-to-back playoff appearances). I will take a guy that 'screws the organization' after actually accomplishing something vs one who screws the organization with nothing accomplished.

I'd agree if I were a Blue Jay or Phillie fan but IMO he screwed up the organization but we didn't get the payoff. Had 2 amazing seasons and I thank him for that but the Mariners had the roster to with farm system at the time to have won or at least gone to a WS in the 2000-02 window.

 

[wazzu31]

And that comes back to the people above the GM. Non Baseball people making decisions on who they want to be the baseball guy. In this organization the GM is the baseball guy because they refuse to take a chance on someone outside their comfort zone. Not saying La Russa would have been a good hire but that’s an example of someone who could have come in and shaken things up. Instead they went internal with Mather. So unless they get lucky and hire the right GM things won’t change. And I have no faith they know how to hire the right GM.

To be fair, I was against LaRussa also, but your point is spot on that the Mariners do need somebody in the front office who knows baseball. That person would've realized Jack was a horrible GM and made him choose one direction and they desperately need someone who can stand up and say no to Jerry or at least reign him in on his dealings. Maybe Jerry is a mad genius that it will eventually pan out but right now he seems like a a jilted child who was told his way was wrong and he is doing every thing possible to do it against the norm to prove everyone he is really is better than them.