Official Mariners arm-chair GM offseason thread

[seahawksfan234]

Completely agree. My thing with him is he sees himself as so much smarter than any other person in baseball and in his limited resume it sucked. The Angels were good before him, sucked with him and have returned to making bold moves and spending money. He was given a crappy deck with the contracts and farm system, but burning the farm system and spending money on just dudes doesn't make sense. How in the world does the Alonso deal make sense if they didn't want to resign him? Could've gotten Healy at the deadline, how does shipping off every single highly rated prospect for non needs on your team make sense? I keep using the he is trying to reinvent baseball but baseball isn't like basketball or football where you can come in, change things and have instant success like the Seahawks and Warriors. Those team won right away, then the league caught up, the Warriors adapted with Durant, won. The Seahawks are stuck in their ways and haven't. That's why I don't like his sticking to his philosophy of metrics and making hundreds of moves.

Seattle already has a disadvantage and now he has made it a pitstop organization that can't attract any free agents without bottom feeding or spending resources he already is short on, which he has made the only way to win. He gambled on Segura and Haniger. Segura is a 2B when they have one and Haniger but thus far is more prone to injuries than Paxton.

It's just so confusing what his goal is, and his condescending tone with fans and baseball people in general bugs me.

This was exactly my thought when we traded for him. I was really confused as to what the purpose of trading for Alonso was. Additionally, he was coming off of a ridiculously strange stretch in his career where he discovered power he never had before. He obviously wasn't an optimal long-term option, so I'm not surprised we didn't even consider bringing him back. We only gave up a C-grade prospect for him, but in this organization that's probably good enough to be in the top 10.

I agree on the reinvention of baseball thing.

He has mentioned that we are now in an era where starters don't need to go 6+ innings, and you can see that with his acquisitions:

-Marco Gonzales: 5 inning arm. Looks more like a long reliever to me.
-Erasmo Ramirez: 5 inning arm. Looks more like a long reliever to me.
-David Phelps: Former starter, now a long reliever.
-Juan Nicasio: Former starter, now a long reliever.

It looks like he has some idea in his head that using innings eating bullpen arms in combination with mediocre starts is somehow a recipe for success. Honestly, I think the end result of this will be a lot of shuffling around in the bullpen that will lead to a lot of guys being overworked.

 

[NWinAZ]

I believe Healy and Nicascio are an upgrade over Pagan and Alonso/Valencia, but it's merely a marginal improvement. If you wanna use WAR, I'd say it's maybe half a game improvement at best lol.

At best. I worry that Healy will be basically in his sophomore season and playing in Seattle so of history is any indicator the possibility of regression is highly likely. And as far as Nicasio goes, I always worry about a guy having a career year at age 30+ and was on 3 teams the year before we get him. I agree with the half game improvement at best, but fear Nicasio ends up like Cishek and is given away before his contract expires.

 

[NWinAZ]

It looks like he has some idea in his head that using innings eating bullpen arms in combination with mediocre starts is somehow a recipe for success. Honestly, I think the end result of this will be a lot of shuffling around in the bullpen that will lead to a lot of guys being overworked.

I admit i barely watched any of the World Series, but didn't both teams go with a 10 man pitching staff each game and it came down to last man standing and scoring became the winner?

I came up with a new thought about 10 years ago where you sign 10 starters and have 1 closer and just pitch 2 starters per game and run with it. I would start the lesser of the two starters and hope to hold it close for 4 innings and then bring in the better of the starters to pitch the next 4 or maybe 5 innings with closer waiting in the wings. Nobody in MLB had picked up my idea and ran with it. Maybe this is JD's version of my idea...poor slob.

 

[seahawksfan234]

At best. I worry that Healy will be basically in his sophomore season and playing in Seattle so of history is any indicator the possibility of regression is highly likely. And as far as Nicasio goes, I always worry about a guy having a career year at age 30+ and was on 3 teams the year before we get him. I agree with the half game improvement at best, but fear Nicasio ends up like Cishek and is given away before his contract expires.

His first 221 MLB games have been good, so I have the hope that he will likely be something around where he's currently at with room to grow.

I worry about Nicasio as well.

His numbers this year were impressive, but he has never really had a season like this before. Regression to the norm is my biggest concern with Nicasio. We're paying him like he's going to be a mid to low 2 ERA reliever with around 70 innings on his arm, but I expect we're more likely to get a mid 3 ERA reliever.

 

[PolarVortex]

Marco Gonzalez and prospects for Gerrit Cole. Come on, DiPoto, either act like a contender or have a full blown re-build.

 

[NWinAZ]

His first 221 MLB games have been good, so I have the hope that he will likely be something around where he's currently at with room to grow.

I just have Smoak flashbacks for all young 1B's coming to Seattle.

 

[NWinAZ]

Remember all that International Money M's had, but then gave away for two guys you will never see again? This is how they could have spent it:

Yankees signed OF Raimfer Salinas.

Financial terms of the deal have not yet been disclosed. The 16-year-old was recently ranked by MLB.com as the #6 international prospect available this offseason. He projects as a legitimate five-tool player and is a terrific get for an already strong Yankees' system.

Yankees signed C Antonio Cabello.

Financial terms of the deal have yet to be disclosed. The 17-year-old backstop ranked as the 8th best international prospect available this winter according to MLB Pipeline. While he's currently stationed behind the plate, he's athletic enough that he could also play second base or center field.

-------------------------

Go Yanks!

 

[wazzu31]

I just have Smoak flashbacks for all young 1B's coming to Seattle.

Like in Casablanca, we'll always have Tino.

 

[NWinAZ]

Like in Casablanca, we'll always have Tino.

That leads to another flashback...the giveaway.

 

[wazzu31]

That leads to another flashback...the giveaway.

That was a dumb trade. If you are giving away Tino, you don't let the Yankees dictate it. It was suppose to be Pettite, Rivera and Davis.

 

[NWinAZ]

That was a dumb trade. If you are giving away Tino, you don't let the Yankees dictate it. It was suppose to be Pettite, Rivera and Davis.

Yes but the parent club (Yankees) said no you will take Hitchcock and like it! There was also talk about a young kid named Posada, but M's weren't interested in him. And the topper to all that was they traded Tino because they couldn't afford him but Tino said he was never asked how much he wanted and was willing to take less than expected because he wanted to stay. Only the M's.

 

[wazzu31]

I never heard the Posada one, I heard the Pettite and Rivera part since we were sending Nelson. Either way, no value in 2 prospects for all star level 1B and reliever. How different the Randy era would've been had it been Tino and Nelson vs Sorrento/Segui and Mesa.

 

[seahawksfan234]

Remember all that International Money M's had, but then gave away for two guys you will never see again? This is how they could have spent it:

Yankees signed OF Raimfer Salinas.

Financial terms of the deal have not yet been disclosed. The 16-year-old was recently ranked by MLB.com as the #6 international prospect available this offseason. He projects as a legitimate five-tool player and is a terrific get for an already strong Yankees' system.

Yankees signed C Antonio Cabello.

Financial terms of the deal have yet to be disclosed. The 17-year-old backstop ranked as the 8th best international prospect available this winter according to MLB Pipeline. While he's currently stationed behind the plate, he's athletic enough that he could also play second base or center field.

-------------------------

Go Yanks!

The Yankees have surprisingly become the most likable team in baseball. Judge, Sanchez and Stanton in the middle of that lineup, holy shit.

 

[seahawksfan234]

Also,

Merry Christmas everyone, hope you all are doing well. Love shooting the shit with you guys.

Kinda funny to think we've all been bantering over the internet since like 2007 back on CBS.

 

[NWinAZ]

I never heard the Posada one, I heard the Pettite and Rivera part since we were sending Nelson. Either way, no value in 2 prospects for all star level 1B and reliever. How different the Randy era would've been had it been Tino and Nelson vs Sorrento/Segui and Mesa.

Management deemed that they couldn’t afford Tino Martinez, so he was on the trade block. GM Woody Woodward focused on the Yankees, who needed a first-base replacement for retiring Don Mattingly. Posada at the time was a 23-year-old catcher who had spent the ’95 season at Triple-A Columbus. For Columbus, he had hit .255 with eight homers and 51 RBIs, striking out 101 times in 108 games. … Posada was a well-regarded prospect, nothing more, nothing less.

According to a story by long-time Mariners beat writer Bob Finnigan in the Seattle Times on Dec. 4, 1995, the Mariners nixed a trade that would have sent pitcher Sterling Hitchcock and Posada to the Mariners for Martinez and a reliever, either Jeff Nelson, Bill Risley, or, wait for it, Bobby Ayala. The same report of a nixed trade that would have sent Posada to the Mariners was in the New York Times and New York Daily News.

Mariners turned down trade for Jorge Posada in 1995

 

[PolarVortex]

Also,

Merry Christmas everyone, hope you all are doing well. Love shooting the shit with you guys.

Kinda funny to think we've all been bantering over the internet since like 2007 back on CBS.

A happy belated Merry Christmas. Alas, the hapless Mariners did not get Gerrit Cole in their stocking but I hope Santa was good to you all. Somewhere in San Diego, Kagezilla has a lump of coal he is contemplating selling on eBay or re-gifting to the POTUS.

 

[FirebreathingMonkey]

What moves to make if you want to play with MLB's 'Super Seven'

According to ESPN in order to hang with the elite seven in baseball the M's have too

Additions: OF Dee Gordon, RHPs Juan Nicasio and Shawn Armstrong; re-signed RHP Hisashi Iwakuma, 1B Ryon Healy

Lost: LHPs Drew Smyly and Andrew Albers, 1B Yonder Alonso, RHPs Yovani Gallardo and Emilio Pagan

Free agents: OF Jarrod Dyson, 1B Danny Valencia, C Carlos Ruiz

What they should do next: Yes, Jerry Dipoto has been active as usual, but he failed to reel in the big fish he wanted in Ohtani. He made the creative move to acquire Gordon and move him to center field, but the Mariners still project as a .500 team. So is there anything Dipoto can do with the payroll already set to last year’s level?

Well, you always can spend more money. The weakest projected positions for Seattle via FanGraphs are first base (0.5 WAR, 28th) and left field (0.8 WAR, 25th). The rotation ranks 20th at 10.0 WAR. So let’s see.

First base: Seattle is one place where Eric Hosmer could reasonably fit and first base is a position where the Mariners have been weak for years, but unless Hosmer’s price tag drops considerably, it’s not a realistic scenario. They already tried the Logan Morrison thing, so they probably will just stick with Healy and maybe waiver-claim Mike Ford (an OBP machine in Triple-A for the Yankees).

Left field: Ben Gamel and Guillermo Heredia at least provide good defense, but between that pair and Gordon, you have no power at two outfield positions. Martinez is too expensive and Jay Bruce -- 2.9 WAR last season but 1.0 projected WAR -- maybe not be enough of an upgrade.

That leaves the rotation, one that was riddled with injuries in 2017. The fourth and fifth starters right now are Erasmo Ramirez and Ariel Miranda(not counting Iwakuma, who is coming off a shoulder injury). Alex Cobbwould be a nice get and would not blow up the payroll. Note: The Mariners’ 40-man roster is at 39 players. Dipoto is saving space for one more transaction!

 

[NWinAZ]

What moves to make if you want to play with MLB's 'Super Seven'

According to ESPN in order to hang with the elite seven in baseball the M's have too

Additions: OF Dee Gordon, RHPs Juan Nicasio and Shawn Armstrong; re-signed RHP Hisashi Iwakuma, 1B Ryon Healy

Lost: LHPs Drew Smyly and Andrew Albers, 1B Yonder Alonso, RHPs Yovani Gallardo and Emilio Pagan

Free agents: OF Jarrod Dyson, 1B Danny Valencia, C Carlos Ruiz

What they should do next: Yes, Jerry Dipoto has been active as usual, but he failed to reel in the big fish he wanted in Ohtani. He made the creative move to acquire Gordon and move him to center field, but the Mariners still project as a .500 team. So is there anything Dipoto can do with the payroll already set to last year’s level?

Well, you always can spend more money. The weakest projected positions for Seattle via FanGraphs are first base (0.5 WAR, 28th) and left field (0.8 WAR, 25th). The rotation ranks 20th at 10.0 WAR. So let’s see.

First base: Seattle is one place where Eric Hosmer could reasonably fit and first base is a position where the Mariners have been weak for years, but unless Hosmer’s price tag drops considerably, it’s not a realistic scenario. They already tried the Logan Morrison thing, so they probably will just stick with Healy and maybe waiver-claim Mike Ford (an OBP machine in Triple-A for the Yankees).

Left field: Ben Gamel and Guillermo Heredia at least provide good defense, but between that pair and Gordon, you have no power at two outfield positions. Martinez is too expensive and Jay Bruce -- 2.9 WAR last season but 1.0 projected WAR -- maybe not be enough of an upgrade.

That leaves the rotation, one that was riddled with injuries in 2017. The fourth and fifth starters right now are Erasmo Ramirez and Ariel Miranda(not counting Iwakuma, who is coming off a shoulder injury). Alex Cobbwould be a nice get and would not blow up the payroll. Note: The Mariners’ 40-man roster is at 39 players. Dipoto is saving space for one more transaction!

That sums it up. But the one issue is they mention Cobb who wouldn't blow up the payroll but he is asking $20M per year right now which is as much or more than a lot of other options out there. It will come down to the M's opening their wallet or not and if they do can DIP actually make the right call?

 

[wazzu31]

Management deemed that they couldn’t afford Tino Martinez, so he was on the trade block. GM Woody Woodward focused on the Yankees, who needed a first-base replacement for retiring Don Mattingly. Posada at the time was a 23-year-old catcher who had spent the ’95 season at Triple-A Columbus. For Columbus, he had hit .255 with eight homers and 51 RBIs, striking out 101 times in 108 games. … Posada was a well-regarded prospect, nothing more, nothing less.

According to a story by long-time Mariners beat writer Bob Finnigan in the Seattle Times on Dec. 4, 1995, the Mariners nixed a trade that would have sent pitcher Sterling Hitchcock and Posada to the Mariners for Martinez and a reliever, either Jeff Nelson, Bill Risley, or, wait for it, Bobby Ayala. The same report of a nixed trade that would have sent Posada to the Mariners was in the New York Times and New York Daily News.

Mariners turned down trade for Jorge Posada in 1995

I can understand not really wanting Posado since the Mariners did have Wilson and didn't they just draft Varitek? Like I said I didn't know about this deal but the Mariners got screwed in value, much like the reason I wasn't solidly behind the Lee to Texas deal was not only did we give up Lee but an all star caliber reliever at the time in Lowe for prospects. Realistically the Segura/Haniger deal is the only real time I can remember the Mariners making an on paper solid value deal...guess for Cliff Lee but I explained my feelings on that on the other thread.

 

[NWinAZ]

• Twinkie Town expects that the Twins could be looking to deal star slugger Miguel Sano.

Hello M's!!! Seager for Sano works for me. Yes he is injured a lot, but high potential and a lot cheaper...and DIP's favorite word...controllable.