Official Mariners arm-chair GM offseason thread 2018-2019

[seahawksfan234]

You hang on to your good players, prospects should come through the draft not through other teams farm systems... This is the problem with this organization, how is it even remotely possible that we have one of the worst farm systems when we've been drafting high for the last 17 years ? Why don't we develop within, sign our veterans and keep good talent, it's maddening over the years watching this team @#$^ up over and over and over ....

I do agree with hanging on to your good players, but Paxton is a different case. He's a power pitcher who has dealt with an insane amount of injuries and is likely to start regressing soon due to his age and the eventual decrease in velocity he is going to experience.

It would've been nice if we had drafted better and developed from within, but that just hasn't been the case - and that's a different topic. For a team looking to rebuild and look to the future, right now the best we can do is attempt to acquire as much young talent as possible while supplementing that talent through strong development and drafting.

Even if we had a stronger farm system, this team is not competing in 2019 and unless a bunch of guys take a huge step forward, 2020 is unlikely as well. Who knows how useful Paxton will be in 2021.

I'm right with you on how maddening this has been to experience and watch, but it's the unfortunate situation we're in right now. This franchise is a mess from top to bottom and we need an infusion of young talent and right now the best way we can do that is by moving on from our older assets.

 

[seahawksfan234]

The point of holding on to him vs giving him up for crap should be obvious. Maybe I typed too fast and you couldn't keep up. If you get crap for him, you might as wells keep him until the wheels fall off or move him at the deadline when teams get robbed in deals. If he gets hurt before the deadline, then no loss because you got crap in return. If the guys turn out to be average, you still lost because no way a top 10 pitcher should return average no matter his injury history. People mention injury history yet forget no of it is major arm problems. For me it wouldn't even surprise me that the Cards got more for Marco than we did for Paxton.

Yes he is 30 but has little arm usage. He ain't freaking Felix at 30 with the arm barely hanging on. Even DIPshit said 2/3rds of the league was asking for him. So this was the best deal or was it just Dipshits fascination with overhyped Yanks?

Shortsighted is taking a deal that doesn't move the needle for your best player. The only reason he did it was to save money. If they kept him to the deadline, they probably would have had to pay him around $4.5M and M's weren't doing that.

But in the end, you have every right to continue kissing the ass of a horrid franchise. Buy your Kings Court T-shirt, and your Ichiro Bobbleheads and be happy. Best of luck.

I think you're predicating this on the fact that the Mariners received crap in return for Paxton. I also think we have to agree to disagree regarding Paxton's trade value. When he's healthy I believe he was the best pitcher on the market, but that's a huge if right there.

Also, c'mon AZ... We've been posting on the same boards going back to CBS for probably around 10 years now. You know I'm the last person who kisses the ass of the franchise. I'm just as upset and frustrated by the fact that the Mariners are arguably the worst franchise in football or baseball right now.

Just because I disagree with you doesn't mean I'm "ass-kissing" this franchise. My point is that this trade makes us better in 2020 and 2021 than if we had held on to Paxton. I just disagree that we could've received a substantially better haul for Paxton.

It fucking sucks that we are in this situation, I agree. But the Mariners need to do something to get better in the future because it appears very unlikely the Mariners will contend in 2019 or 2020 barring some miracle.

 

[seahawksfan234]

This would be absolutely fucking awful unless good prospects are coming the M's way too.

Mike Leake and Segura for Wil Myers?

Yeah, no fucking way unless it comes with a couple blue chip prospects. Segura alone is worth at least Francisco Mejia IMO.

I know the Padres would be taking on the salary commitments, but Segura is an All-Star SS, only 28 and on a reasonable contract. Leake is also an extremely reliable #3. They could get way more than Wil Myers for that.

 

[seahawksfan234]

Segura is a guy I'd like to hold on to as I believe he'll be a good piece for the team for the duration of his contract. The biggest issue is his club house issues.

The idea of Mike Leake and Segura for Myers sounds awful. Dee Gordon and Leake for Myers and the Padres take on both contracts? Maybe, idk. Even then, I'd like to get another prospect.

 

[PolarVortex]

Mike Leake and Segura for Wil Myers?

Yeah, no fucking way unless it comes with a couple blue chip prospects. Segura alone is worth at least Francisco Mejia IMO.

I know the Padres would be taking on the salary commitments, but Segura is an All-Star SS, only 28 and on a reasonable contract. Leake is also an extremely reliable #3. They could get way more than Wil Myers for that.

That trade makes no sense under any circumstances not to mention that Myers is owed $91.5 million over the next five years.

 

[seahawksfan234]

That trade makes no sense under any circumstances not to mention that Myers is owed $91.5 million over the next five years.

Oh shit wow I didn't even see that. I didn't realize he already had a pretty hefty contract already in place.

Yeah, no fucking way. I wouldn't even trade Segura for Myers straight up, even if Myers didn't have that contract in place.

 

[boogiewithstu2007]

I do agree with hanging on to your good players, but Paxton is a different case. He's a power pitcher who has dealt with an insane amount of injuries and is likely to start regressing soon due to his age and the eventual decrease in velocity he is going to experience.

It would've been nice if we had drafted better and developed from within, but that just hasn't been the case - and that's a different topic. For a team looking to rebuild and look to the future, right now the best we can do is attempt to acquire as much young talent as possible while supplementing that talent through strong development and drafting.

Even if we had a stronger farm system, this team is not competing in 2019 and unless a bunch of guys take a huge step forward, 2020 is unlikely as well. Who knows how useful Paxton will be in 2021.

I'm right with you on how maddening this has been to experience and watch, but it's the unfortunate situation we're in right now. This franchise is a mess from top to bottom and we need an infusion of young talent and right now the best way we can do that is by moving on from our older assets.

Right, but that's Mariners baseball in a nutshell, when we have talent we trade that talent, it's just old, we almost won 90 games but here we are again getting ride of top players for prospects, it's just a rise wash repeat cycle with this franchise for so many years now... What you're saying is obviously logical, but we can't keep trading our best players for other teams prospects because were so inept finding talent within our own system... it's so maddening...

 

[PolarVortex]

Oh shit wow I didn't even see that. I didn't realize he already had a pretty hefty contract already in place.

Yeah, no fucking way. I wouldn't even trade Segura for Myers straight up, even if Myers didn't have that contract in place.

Actually that price tag includes an option year, so, his guaranteed money is more like $74 million over four years. MLBTR has it at $64 million but their dumbassery math is off.

Also, for an organization that supposedly hates minorities, we sure seem to be getting rid of a bunch of white guys.

 

[PolarVortex]

Oh shit wow I didn't even see that. I didn't realize he already had a pretty hefty contract already in place.

Yeah, no fucking way. I wouldn't even trade Segura for Myers straight up, even if Myers didn't have that contract in place.

Agreed. Segura has more value than Myers. The potential has always been there for Myers, but the bum has had serious injuries in four of his 6 MLB seasons. Four times he has played less than 90 games.

I think Dipoto has been told to sell off. I think their confidence in him is shot. He is definitely sending mixed signals this year. First he is 're-imagining the lineup'. Then he says 'but, but, but that doesn't mean a firesale'! Then he trades away the starting catcher in #1 pitcher.

The Zunino and Paxton trades make sense, if you are trying to re-stock and sacrifice a couple years. But then to throw a Leake/Segura-for-Myers trade on top of it? Yeah, when considering all three trades together, it seem completely lacking in a specific direction.

 

[seahawksfan234]

Right, but that's Mariners baseball in a nutshell, when we have talent we trade that talent, it's just old, we almost won 90 games but here we are again getting ride of top players for prospects, it's just a rise wash repeat cycle with this franchise for so many years now... What you're saying is obviously logical, but we can't keep trading our best players for other teams prospects because were so inept finding talent within our own system... it's so maddening...

I see your points. It's extremely frustrating.

Had we not whiffed so hard on Ackley, Hultzen, Zunino, D.J. Peterson and Alex Jackson, this franchise would look a lot different right now. If we didn't win a bunch of games at the end of 2009, we could've had Strasburg. In 2011 we could've had Trevor Bauer, Anthony Rendon, Francisco Lindor, Javier Baez or George Springer.

If things went differently in those two drafts, the franchise would look a lot different right now. The 2011 draft especially stings.

 

[SeattleCoug]

That trade makes no sense under any circumstances not to mention that Myers is owed $91.5 million over the next five years.

Yea main reason its terrible. I get that they are hell bent on getting rid of Segura. I dont think they could throw him under the bus anymore if they tried but they can do much better then this.

 

[seahawksfan234]

Agreed. Segura has more value than Myers. The potential has always been there for Myers, but the bum has had serious injuries in four of his 6 MLB seasons. Four times he has played less than 90 games.

I think Dipoto has been told to sell off. I think their confidence in him is shot. He is definitely sending mixed signals this year. First he is 're-imagining the lineup'. Then he says 'but, but, but that doesn't mean a firesale'! Then he trades away the starting catcher in #1 pitcher.

The Zunino and Paxton trades make sense, if you are trying to re-stock and sacrifice a couple years. But then to throw a Leake/Segura-for-Myers trade on top of it? Yeah, when considering all three trades together, it seem completely lacking in a specific direction.

I think his hopes is that he wants to move whatever assets we have right now for younger, MLB ready players so that when his contract comes to an end there's a possibility he may still have a job. Segura doesn't make sense to move IMO mostly because if the hope is to have a contender by 2020 and on, Segura would be a very nice piece to have on the team.

Haniger and Segura are two guys the team should build around. Segura maybe you move if you can get a great package for him, but even then I wouldn't be a huge fan.

Agreed on your last point. Trading Leake and Segura for Myers doesn't make any sense whatsoever to me in any sense.

 

[seahawksfan234]

Since apparently according to MLBTR both Segura and Mike Leake have been approached to waive their no-trade rights, let's at least explore this idea.

The MLB players being moved would presumably be Segura, Leake and Myers. I cannot imagine that it's just those 3 players being moved. If that were the case, it would be a ridiculously awful trade for the Mariners. That leads me to think that the Mariners would have to receive something in addition to Myers, and since the Padres have a great farm system, here is a list of their top prospects:

1. Fernando Tatis Jr: #2 overall prospect. #1 overall SS. MLB ETA: 2019
2. MacKenzie Gore: #13 overall prospect. #2 overall LHP. MLB ETA: 2020
3. Francisco Meija: #26 overall prospect. #2 overall C. MLB ETA: 2018
4. Luis Arias: #27 overall prospect. #2 overall 2B. MLB ETA: 2018
5. Chris Paddock: #35 overall prospect. UR RHP. MLB ETA: 2020
6. Adrian Morejon: #46 overall prospect. #6 overall LHP. MLB ETA: 2019
7. Michael Baez: #57 overall prospect. UR RHP. MLB ETA: 2019
8. Logan Allen: #76 overall prospect. #8 overall LHP. MLB ETA: 2019
9. Luis Patino: #83 overall prospect. UR RHP. MLB ETA: 2021
10. Ryan Weathers: #92 overall prospect. #10 overall LHP. MLB ETA: 2022

These rankings are from MLB.com. Reason the RHPs are UR (unranked) is because they only show the rankings for the top 10 players at the position and it would appear that there are a lot of highly ranked RHPs.

With a system this deep, if the Mariners don't land some young talent in this trade, I will probably hate this franchise more than anyone else on this board.

 

[blstoker]

I hope the Myers deal isn't real - cause I'm really tired of fielding a team of players who couldn't sniff a 35% OBP if their lives depend on it - and Myerrs can't do it while walking over 10% of his PAs. He'll drop his BA to Zunino levels in Seattle - and that can't be justified at 1st base - we already have Healy to do that.

 

[blstoker]

Since apparently according to MLBTR both Segura and Mike Leake have been approached to waive their no-trade rights, let's at least explore this idea.

The MLB players being moved would presumably be Segura, Leake and Myers. I cannot imagine that it's just those 3 players being moved. If that were the case, it would be a ridiculously awful trade for the Mariners. That leads me to think that the Mariners would have to receive something in addition to Myers, and since the Padres have a great farm system, here is a list of their top prospects:

1. Fernando Tatis Jr: #2 overall prospect. #1 overall SS. MLB ETA: 2019
2. MacKenzie Gore: #13 overall prospect. #2 overall LHP. MLB ETA: 2020
3. Francisco Meija: #26 overall prospect. #2 overall C. MLB ETA: 2018
4. Luis Arias: #27 overall prospect. #2 overall 2B. MLB ETA: 2018
5. Chris Paddock: #35 overall prospect. UR RHP. MLB ETA: 2020
6. Adrian Morejon: #46 overall prospect. #6 overall LHP. MLB ETA: 2019
7. Michael Baez: #57 overall prospect. UR RHP. MLB ETA: 2019
8. Logan Allen: #76 overall prospect. #8 overall LHP. MLB ETA: 2019
9. Luis Patino: #83 overall prospect. UR RHP. MLB ETA: 2021
10. Ryan Weathers: #92 overall prospect. #10 overall LHP. MLB ETA: 2022

These rankings are from MLB.com. Reason the RHPs are UR (unranked) is because they only show the rankings for the top 10 players at the position and it would appear that there are a lot of highly ranked RHPs.

With a system this deep, if the Mariners don't land some young talent in this trade, I will probably hate this franchise more than anyone else on this board.

Deal could look ok if Tatis and Meija were both included (Ha ha ha), but this is the GM who traded a relief pitcher for a young power hitting 1st baseman - and appears to have lost that trade.....

 

[seahawksfan234]

Deal could look ok if Tatis and Meija were both included (Ha ha ha), but this is the GM who traded a relief pitcher for a young power hitting 1st baseman - and appears to have lost that trade.....

We'll see. Both can be expendable for the Padres. If the Mariners do trade Segura, I'd hope that Tatis would be part of the package we'd receive. If it's just Segura and Leake for Myers and not much else, I'd be furious.

 

[wazzu31]

You hang on to your good players, prospects should come through the draft not through other teams farm systems... This is the problem with this organization, how is it even remotely possible that we have one of the worst farm systems when we've been drafting high for the last 17 years ? Why don't we develop within, sign our veterans and keep good talent, it's maddening over the years watching this team @#$^ up over and over and over ....

That is the one problem with the club and has been since ARod was drafted, somehow someway they always trade their good prospects for nothing then trade good players for crap prospects (especially the Yankees dating back to Tino)

Player development has seemed to be on the bottom rung of priority in the organization since the late 90’s.

 

[wazzu31]

I do agree with hanging on to your good players, but Paxton is a different case. He's a power pitcher who has dealt with an insane amount of injuries and is likely to start regressing soon due to his age and the eventual decrease in velocity he is going to experience.

It would've been nice if we had drafted better and developed from within, but that just hasn't been the case - and that's a different topic. For a team looking to rebuild and look to the future, right now the best we can do is attempt to acquire as much young talent as possible while supplementing that talent through strong development and drafting.

Even if we had a stronger farm system, this team is not competing in 2019 and unless a bunch of guys take a huge step forward, 2020 is unlikely as well. Who knows how useful Paxton will be in 2021.

I'm right with you on how maddening this has been to experience and watch, but it's the unfortunate situation we're in right now. This franchise is a mess from top to bottom and we need an infusion of young talent and right now the best way we can do that is by moving on from our older assets.

I completely disagree with how you feel on Paxton. Paxton’s problem is mental, not physical and I doubt he will lose anything that makes him successful until late into his 30’s. He was a power lefty, but he wasn’t really a power pitcher until a few years ago when they tweaked his delivery. He doesn’t have anywhere near the wear and tear that a typical pitcher his age has. All he needs is some voodoo doctor to switch his and Felix’s passion for the sport.

As well as disagree this is the best they could have gotten for him if we had a competent GM and exactly why they should have held onto him and dealt him at the deadline. Is it a gamble, for sure, but at the deadline you sure as hell would’ve gotten more than a package that is centered around a pitcher when the team is supposedly going the analytics route where SP are essentially long relievers.

It is way too early to tell but from all of these rumors it does seem like Jerry gets a prank phone call from another GM and says sure let’s do it and the GM has to put him on hold so he can laugh his ass off.

 

[boogiewithstu2007]

That is the one problem with the club and has been since ARod was drafted, somehow someway they always trade their good prospects for nothing then trade good players for crap prospects (especially the Yankees dating back to Tino)

Player development has seemed to be on the bottom rung of priority in the organization since the late 90’s.

Amen

 

[Podunkparte]

I'm fully expecting Edwin Diaz to be a Mariner after July 31, 2019, but I'm gonna be mad as hell if he is.

Let's hope to god he stays healthy and dominant because he's our best trade chip mid season. What the hell does a tanking team need in an elite closer?