Game Thread: Official Bengal Draft Thread

[CrashDavisSports]

I think the draft was good....And people laughing at Shaw he is a poor man's Richard Sherman press and run interchangeable....Good kid who made up a bad story...The Mofo wasn't arrested for smokin the ganja....LOL The tackles I like....Whit will resign and be asked to play guard and Andre walks....2 young tackles are needed with so many up after 15' and Green to sign which will be 80-100 million.... Hardison will be good in the DT rotation Alford will take Tate's position....Eifert until he comes back we dont know....How many TE's does Pitt and NE use?????? We need TE's....Now we have 2 more and Uzomah will block more than catch.... We always over react..We have a talented roster the Dline will be much better than last year and we have more depth and competition at every position on the roster....

Uzomah is a pass catching TE almost strictly. He even admitted his biggest weakness is probably blocking, just because he wasn't asked to do it very often. He said he has a strong desire to learn though and get better to be able to be a TE that is all around solid. So at least his motivation is there. Motivation and execution are two totally different things though.

 

[Cincyfan78]

That was considerate to Dupree and our divisional rival that we left him on the board for them at 22 because he projects better to a 3-4 OLB. But the most pressing, immediate need on the roster was edge rusher and a really good one fell who also has a 6'4 270 frame that's big enough to play 4-3 DE.

We drafted two tackles in the first two rounds when that's arguably the strongest position on the team. I don't know how you can argue that passing on Dupree for an OT makes sense as a need based pick. Maybe it gives Mike Brown leverage when our OTs hit FA but as a fan that's not high on my priority list this season.

They do have a good track record drafting OL under Alexander so I'll give the player the benefit of the doubt, but he's coming off a torn ACL and gave up 7 sacks when he was moved from the right to left side of the line his senior year. I prefer Dupree at 21.. (imo) better prospect at a bigger position of need. If they did have some type of man crush on Cedric Ogbuehi they could have at least traded back to 24 and picked up a mid rd pick and kept Dupree out of the division. The Bengals can afford the luxury of drafting an OT in the 20s for a redshirt year, but I don't think they had to worry about that being the plan for other teams picking before 24

First, you don't draft a guy (or move back assuming they even wanted to) just so another team in your division doesn't get him, and secondly you don't draft a guy who you think projects to be more of an OLB in a 3-4 when you run a 4-3. Let's just scrap this whole best player avaible and start plugging square pegs into round holes again, eh? That's just stupidity.

They passed up a guy who was not an immediate need if you believe that re-signing Johnson helps that (as will a healthy Geno), but more importantly, they passed on a guy who does not fit what they want to do on defense. I also love that everyone ranted and raved about letting Johnson go last year, and now that he's back, they pretend that they still need an edge rusher. I thought this guy was the answer, and why he was brought back? Pick a story and stick with it (not meaning you specifically, but fans in general).

Again, I'll ask...where/when was Dupree going to be used? Over Dunlap? No. Over Johnson? No. Over Gilberry? No. He might have ended up being 4th or 5th on the depth chart at DE. Had the Bengals not signed Johnson back, then there would be reason to argue. Also, with the contracts, Dupree wasn't likely to supplant either Dunlap or Johnson at DE anytime soon. So, you have a 1st round pick who won't see the field, not only his rookie year, but his second and potentially 3rd as well. They also like what they see out of Clarke, who is now at 290, up from 270's last year. One reason they said Clarke struggled at DE last year was because he was too light. He was exactly what Dupree is at now...so, you can almost be assured that Dupree wouldn't have seen much action this year at all until he bulked up.

They drafted two tackles for the future. One of them for sure will help this year along the line as Fisher can also play guard. Considering that nearly every player missed time along the line during the season, having quality depth is paramount if you are going to run Dandy at QB. Everyone saw what happened last year when Smith went down. Newberry was a joke. Winston was better, but not great. These picks (if both can help this year) not only solidify the line this year at depth, but also in the event that both tackles end up elsewhere.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

Oddly enough, the thing that fans wanted the most, a player to get them over the hump was never going to be selected. Why? Because the player who would most get this team over the hump was never going to be addressed: QB.

100% agree and been bitching about the whole off season. The draft was fine, the situation at QB is the issue.

 

[futballiscool]

First, you don't draft a guy (or move back assuming they even wanted to) just so another team in your division doesn't get him, and secondly you don't draft a guy who you think projects to be more of an OLB in a 3-4 when you run a 4-3. Let's just scrap this whole best player avaible and start plugging square pegs into round holes again, eh? That's just stupidity.

They passed up a guy who was not an immediate need if you believe that re-signing Johnson helps that (as will a healthy Geno), but more importantly, they passed on a guy who does not fit what they want to do on defense. I also love that everyone ranted and raved about letting Johnson go last year, and now that he's back, they pretend that they still need an edge rusher. I thought this guy was the answer, and why he was brought back? Pick a story and stick with it (not meaning you specifically, but fans in general).

Again, I'll ask...where/when was Dupree going to be used? Over Dunlap? No. Over Johnson? No. Over Gilberry? No. He might have ended up being 4th or 5th on the depth chart at DE. Had the Bengals not signed Johnson back, then there would be reason to argue. Also, with the contracts, Dupree wasn't likely to supplant either Dunlap or Johnson at DE anytime soon. So, you have a 1st round pick who won't see the field, not only his rookie year, but his second and potentially 3rd as well. They also like what they see out of Clarke, who is now at 290, up from 270's last year. One reason they said Clarke struggled at DE last year was because he was too light. He was exactly what Dupree is at now...so, you can almost be assured that Dupree wouldn't have seen much action this year at all until he bulked up.

They drafted two tackles for the future. One of them for sure will help this year along the line as Fisher can also play guard. Considering that nearly every player missed time along the line during the season, having quality depth is paramount if you are going to run Dandy at QB. Everyone saw what happened last year when Smith went down. Newberry was a joke. Winston was better, but not great. These picks (if both can help this year) not only solidify the line this year at depth, but also in the event that both tackles end up elsewhere.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you're intentionally misrepresenting what I said as oppose to it being a reading comprehension issue. Either way I'll explain it in more detail. You don't take a player who might fit better in a 3-4 to spite a division rival and the player. The fact he might fit better in a 3-4 is irrelevant. I wouldn't want to pass on a probowl TE because they might fit better and produce better in New England's system either. The question is if the player is capable of playing in your system. At 6'4 270 Dupree has a the stature and the athletic profile to play DE in the 4-3. You can look at the best 4-3 edge rusher in the game (Robert Quinn, Pierre-Paul etc)and their measurables were identical to Dupree's out of college. Micheal Johnson and Carlos Dunlap were 2 inches taller and weighed in the 260s and 270s at the combine respectively. If you're looking for 290 lbs run stuffing 4-3 end who can also get you 12-15 sacks a year you can either tank a season before there's a once in a decade prospect or you can stockpile picks to make a run at the next Mario Williams or Reggie White.

Micheal Johnson is a nice player. Carlos Dunlap is solid. There hasn't been an impact pass rusher on the Bengals since I've been following them. Being in the same conference as Roethlisberger, Manning, Brady, Rivers, Flacco, Luck I want to make a run at an impact pass rusher if they're available. A player with that type of potential fell to the Bengals and the passed on him.

As far as the trade (that's been reported in Arizona), hell yeah I'll take the extra mid rd picks and in all likelihood still take the same player at 24 as 21 plus keep the Steelers from drafting their targeted player if you're deadset on the OT from A and M.

Is pass rusher a premium needed in the NFL? Yes
Was an edge rushing presence a pressing need? THE BENGALS FINISHED DEAD LAST IN SACKS LAST YEAR
Is Dupree a great value at 21- In my opinion, yes
Can Dupree play in the 4-3- In my opinion, yes

I don't have an issue with planning in advance for the OT issue (although you can franchise Whit and extend Smith and it's now a 2017 issue). But with a better prospect at a more pressing need I don't like the pick. Dupree was maximum value and maximum need

 

[alf8478]

First, you don't draft a guy (or move back assuming they even wanted to) just so another team in your division doesn't get him, and secondly you don't draft a guy who you think projects to be more of an OLB in a 3-4 when you run a 4-3. Let's just scrap this whole best player avaible and start plugging square pegs into round holes again, eh? That's just stupidity.

They passed up a guy who was not an immediate need if you believe that re-signing Johnson helps that (as will a healthy Geno), but more importantly, they passed on a guy who does not fit what they want to do on defense. I also love that everyone ranted and raved about letting Johnson go last year, and now that he's back, they pretend that they still need an edge rusher. I thought this guy was the answer, and why he was brought back? Pick a story and stick with it (not meaning you specifically, but fans in general).

Again, I'll ask...where/when was Dupree going to be used? Over Dunlap? No. Over Johnson? No. Over Gilberry? No. He might have ended up being 4th or 5th on the depth chart at DE. Had the Bengals not signed Johnson back, then there would be reason to argue. Also, with the contracts, Dupree wasn't likely to supplant either Dunlap or Johnson at DE anytime soon. So, you have a 1st round pick who won't see the field, not only his rookie year, but his second and potentially 3rd as well. They also like what they see out of Clarke, who is now at 290, up from 270's last year. One reason they said Clarke struggled at DE last year was because he was too light. He was exactly what Dupree is at now...so, you can almost be assured that Dupree wouldn't have seen much action this year at all until he bulked up.

They drafted two tackles for the future. One of them for sure will help this year along the line as Fisher can also play guard. Considering that nearly every player missed time along the line during the season, having quality depth is paramount if you are going to run Dandy at QB. Everyone saw what happened last year when Smith went down. Newberry was a joke. Winston was better, but not great. These picks (if both can help this year) not only solidify the line this year at

I hope you see the irony in your post. You are arguing against a defensive player who won't play for an offensive players who won't play.

 

[alf8478]

Question for all you "move Whit to guard people"...so you don't want Zeitler anymore?

 

[cincygrad]

I wanted a tackle and we got two.... I'm not upset about the draft. To be upset would mean that I actually watched any of these dudes play football and I haven't. Whit and Tits are in contract years and Tits doesn't strike me as a guy that will be healthy in the later part of his career. I think he's done here so it's time to replace him next year. I don't think Whit will ever play guard for us. Why would he? And why do we want to replace either Boling (a guy we just re-signed) or Zeitler (a guy that's starting to shine)?

I don't like the fact that the A&M kid gave up so many sacks. I worry that they just love his athleticism, but again, I've never seen him play.

The rest of the picks? I don't know. I suppose the tight end could be good, but he caught 9 passes all of last season. I'm sure there are reasons, but damn...... The USC kid (that jumped out a window) intrigues me. He could be one of those dudes that should have been a first rounder. He was a blue chipper out of high school, transferred for family reasons and then lost his fucking mind one night. Of all the guys we got, he strikes me as the biggest risk/reward. I'm intrigued.

 

[cincygrad]

I guess Whit is a little butthurt.

Andrew Whitworth of Cincinnati Bengals unhappy due to lack of contract talks, draft picks

I suppose he just doesn't understand that players don't run the show anymore..... Marvin does.

 

[bengaldoug]

Do you honestly think they are looking to replace Peko?

They should, but they are not. They love him and Rey. Maybe it's the hair?

Eitheway, I think the draft overall was ok. It's hard to be excited when you know going in that the likelyhood of landing an impact player for 2015 was very, very small. If you look at this draft big picture, it's not so bad when you consider 2016 and beyond.

Surprisingly enough, most of the national grades have been fairly kind. Usually in the B to A- range, believe it or not.

No, I honestly didn't think they were trying to replace Peko, but do you think there is greater urgency to replace Whit, the second graded OT by PFF, or Peko, on the bottom of PFF's rated DT? Rhetorical, of course.......actually, I'm not nearly as down on this draft as some others, and they may actually have gotten Peko's replacement too.......I really wanted Malcom Brown though, and I hate that he went to the fracking Pats, proving that the rich just get richer.....

 

[Cincyfan78]

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you're intentionally misrepresenting what I said as oppose to it being a reading comprehension issue. Either way I'll explain it in more detail. You don't take a player who might fit better in a 3-4 to spite a division rival and the player. The fact he might fit better in a 3-4 is irrelevant. I wouldn't want to pass on a probowl TE because they might fit better and produce better in New England's system either. The question is if the player is capable of playing in your system. At 6'4 270 Dupree has a the stature and the athletic profile to play DE in the 4-3. You can look at the best 4-3 edge rusher in the game (Robert Quinn, Pierre-Paul etc)and their measurables were identical to Dupree's out of college. Micheal Johnson and Carlos Dunlap were 2 inches taller and weighed in the 260s and 270s at the combine respectively. If you're looking for 290 lbs run stuffing 4-3 end who can also get you 12-15 sacks a year you can either tank a season before there's a once in a decade prospect or you can stockpile picks to make a run at the next Mario Williams or Reggie White.

Micheal Johnson is a nice player. Carlos Dunlap is solid. There hasn't been an impact pass rusher on the Bengals since I've been following them. Being in the same conference as Roethlisberger, Manning, Brady, Rivers, Flacco, Luck I want to make a run at an impact pass rusher if they're available. A player with that type of potential fell to the Bengals and the passed on him.

As far as the trade (that's been reported in Arizona), hell yeah I'll take the extra mid rd picks and in all likelihood still take the same player at 24 as 21 plus keep the Steelers from drafting their targeted player if you're deadset on the OT from A and M.

Is pass rusher a premium needed in the NFL? Yes
Was an edge rushing presence a pressing need? THE BENGALS FINISHED DEAD LAST IN SACKS LAST YEAR
Is Dupree a great value at 21- In my opinion, yes
Can Dupree play in the 4-3- In my opinion, yes

I don't have an issue with planning in advance for the OT issue (although you can franchise Whit and extend Smith and it's now a 2017 issue). But with a better prospect at a more pressing need I don't like the pick. Dupree was maximum value and maximum need

Maximum value at maximum need, if only the Bengals felt he could play the position they would have been drafting him for. They clearly did not feel that way. The fact that he might be a better OLB in a 3-4 is COMPLETELY relevant when you don't run a 3-4! You don't take a square peg and hope it fits into a round hole. You evaluate a player and see if you think he can fit into the scheme you use. Clearly, the Bengals did not think he was a fit at DE in a 4-3 (and they were not the only ones). You don't take a TE that is all receiving, and can't block and expect him to be a blocker in an offense that might run it 50 times a game just because he's the best TE in the draft. That's bad drafting. It's what the Bengals USED to do...take the 'best' player at a position even if that player didn't fit their scheme. You simply don't do that, if you take a spread QB who's never taken a snap under center and then expect him to run the west-coast offense, that's stupid (See: Klingler, David). I'm sorry, it makes ZERO sense.

In 2013, the Bengals were a top 10 team in sacks on defense, and they were missing Atkins for the 2nd half I believe with the ACL injury:
NFL Stats: by Team Category

That was with Dunlap (7.5), Johnson (3.5), Gilberry(7.5), and a healthy Atkins (6.0 before ACL) getting the bulk of the playing time. I'm sure with a healthy Atkins, they could have finished higher, as they were only 4-5 sacks away from being a top 3 team in sacks. A huge reason for the drop off last year was not that Johnson left, but the ripple effect it had on the line as the rotations that were used dried up when Hunt didn't pan out, and Clarke wasn't ready (A big reason why they had him bulk up from 270 to 290). Don't forget to add that Atkins never quite looked 100%, and hopefully he'll be back to form this year after a full year+ after the injury.

As for the trade...I'm sure the Bengals would have traded back if they felt they could still get the guy they were targeting. Obviously, they didn't feel that way, or they would have (See the DeCastro/Zeitler draft trade). Also, you only can hope that Arizona was taking Dupree, though maybe they would have, I don't know. You can't worry about all of that. Just do what is best for your team at that point, and the Bengals felt their best move was to take the guy they did. They also had no clue if Pitt would take Dupree. Maybe they would have taken a DT, or a WR, or a Safety, or a CB...all of those were real needs and there were plenty of guys on the board that would have been good value for them to draft regardless. Point being...don't worry about what other teams are doing, because they are going to get better one way or another. Focus on what is best for your team.

 

[Cincyfan78]

I hope you see the irony in your post. You are arguing against a defensive player who won't play for an offensive players who won't play.

No irony because both tackles are slated to be F/A after this season, and there is no real depth outside of an aging veteran in Winston. Both of the starting DE's are locked up, and there is a least a little bit of depth at DE with Gilberry and Clarke. It's not much, I do agree since we don't know much about how Clarke will pan out yet, but it's more than what they have on the OL. Especially considering that both guys drafted can play multiple positions along the line.

 

[Cincyfan78]

No, I honestly didn't think they were trying to replace Peko, but do you think there is greater urgency to replace Whit, the second graded OT by PFF, or Peko, on the bottom of PFF's rated DT? Rhetorical, of course.......actually, I'm not nearly as down on this draft as some others, and they may actually have gotten Peko's replacement too.......I really wanted Malcom Brown though, and I hate that he went to the fracking Pats, proving that the rich just get richer.....

Oh, no doubt. But if the PFF grades haven't swayed this coaching staff to move Peko by now.....*sigh*

 

[Cincyfan78]

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you're intentionally misrepresenting what I said as oppose to it being a reading comprehension issue. Either way I'll explain it in more detail. You don't take a player who might fit better in a 3-4 to spite a division rival and the player. The fact he might fit better in a 3-4 is irrelevant. I wouldn't want to pass on a probowl TE because they might fit better and produce better in New England's system either. The question is if the player is capable of playing in your system. At 6'4 270 Dupree has a the stature and the athletic profile to play DE in the 4-3. You can look at the best 4-3 edge rusher in the game (Robert Quinn, Pierre-Paul etc)and their measurables were identical to Dupree's out of college. Micheal Johnson and Carlos Dunlap were 2 inches taller and weighed in the 260s and 270s at the combine respectively. If you're looking for 290 lbs run stuffing 4-3 end who can also get you 12-15 sacks a year you can either tank a season before there's a once in a decade prospect or you can stockpile picks to make a run at the next Mario Williams or Reggie White.

Micheal Johnson is a nice player. Carlos Dunlap is solid. There hasn't been an impact pass rusher on the Bengals since I've been following them. Being in the same conference as Roethlisberger, Manning, Brady, Rivers, Flacco, Luck I want to make a run at an impact pass rusher if they're available. A player with that type of potential fell to the Bengals and the passed on him.

As far as the trade (that's been reported in Arizona), hell yeah I'll take the extra mid rd picks and in all likelihood still take the same player at 24 as 21 plus keep the Steelers from drafting their targeted player if you're deadset on the OT from A and M.

Is pass rusher a premium needed in the NFL? Yes
Was an edge rushing presence a pressing need? THE BENGALS FINISHED DEAD LAST IN SACKS LAST YEAR
Is Dupree a great value at 21- In my opinion, yes
Can Dupree play in the 4-3- In my opinion, yes

I don't have an issue with planning in advance for the OT issue (although you can franchise Whit and extend Smith and it's now a 2017 issue). But with a better prospect at a more pressing need I don't like the pick. Dupree was maximum value and maximum need

Also, it's all good. Let's just hope it all works out.

 

[ckhokie]

Peko sucks. They had the opportunity to replace him with an extremely talented player, but they took a guy that will allow them to not re-sign a player and not spend. That alone should speak volumes about the franchise.

You can try to justify the picks any way you want, but it is clear the franchise has no interest in winning.

 

[BKBroiler9000]

Peko sucks. They had the opportunity to replace him with an extremely talented player, but they took a guy that will allow them to not re-sign a player and not spend. That alone should speak volumes about the franchise.

You can try to justify the picks any way you want, but it is clear the franchise has no interest in winning.

This^^ Therein lies my entire issue with this draft. It wasn't a draft reflective of a team on the cusp trying to get over the hump. It was a draft reflective of a cheap and complacent organization.

I actually like most of the players they picked. I love the Josh Shaw pick and I think the two tackles will be good for years. The only picks I truly hated were the two TEs. Neither will ever contribute in my opinion.

Bottom line, we had an opportunity to pick a DL (Brown not Dupree) or a WR who could've been the missing piece for a team on the fringe. Instead we picked a bunch of backups and replacements for free agents we don't intend on resigning. Status quo.

 

[kramer1]

This^^ Therein lies my entire issue with this draft. It wasn't a draft reflective of a team on the cusp trying to get over the hump. It was a draft reflective of a cheap and complacent organization.

I actually like most of the players they picked. I love the Josh Shaw pick and I think the two tackles will be good for years. The only picks I truly hated were the two TEs. Neither will ever contribute in my opinion.

Bottom line, we had an opportunity to pick a DL (Brown not Dupree) or a WR who could've been the missing piece for a team on the fringe. Instead we picked a bunch of backups and replacements for free agents we don't intend on resigning. Status quo.

This. And anyone who tries to argue otherwise is a fucking idiot.

 

[alf8478]

Ok I just got home from a week long bender in Vegas, can someone tell me where I can find the real draft results

 

[futballiscool]

Maximum value at maximum need, if only the Bengals felt he could play the position they would have been drafting him for. They clearly did not feel that way. The fact that he might be a better OLB in a 3-4 is COMPLETELY relevant when you don't run a 3-4! You don't take a square peg and hope it fits into a round hole. You evaluate a player and see if you think he can fit into the scheme you use. Clearly, the Bengals did not think he was a fit at DE in a 4-3 (and they were not the only ones). .

We're going in circles and mostly repeating the same things over so I'll try to make this my last post on the topic..

I'm not cherry picking analysis, this is all from NFL.com

Dante Fowler Jr (drafted by a base 4-3 team)

"Strong-side 3-4 outside linebacker with the physical traits and above-average potential to set the edge or spill runs wide to an early demise."

NFL Events: Combine Player Profiles - Dante Fowler, Jr.


Vic Beasley (drafted by a base 4-3 team)

"Projects as 3-4 outside linebacker. Considered one of the best pure edge rushers in the draft"

NFL Events: Combine Player Profiles - Vic Beasley

Randy Gregory (drafted by a base 4-3 team)

"3-4 outside linebacker with the length, toughness and closing burst to immediately help a run defense"
NFL Events: Combine Player Profiles - Randy Gregory


To be fair they did quote a scout who said he thought Beasley could work in a 4-3 as well. My general point is that if 4-3 teams take tweeners who project as better fits as OLB in the 3-4 scheme off their board it would be almost impossible to find edge rushing talent. Gregory will probably play DE while Beasley and Fowler Jr will probably rush the passer and play OLB in different looks. Anyway, I hope Dupree's a bust

 

[CrashDavisSports]

We're going in circles and mostly repeating the same things over so I'll try to make this my last post on the topic..

I'm not cherry picking analysis, this is all from NFL.com

Dante Fowler Jr (drafted by a base 4-3 team)

"Strong-side 3-4 outside linebacker with the physical traits and above-average potential to set the edge or spill runs wide to an early demise."

NFL Events: Combine Player Profiles - Dante Fowler, Jr.


Vic Beasley (drafted by a base 4-3 team)

"Projects as 3-4 outside linebacker. Considered one of the best pure edge rushers in the draft"

NFL Events: Combine Player Profiles - Vic Beasley

Randy Gregory (drafted by a base 4-3 team)

"3-4 outside linebacker with the length, toughness and closing burst to immediately help a run defense"
NFL Events: Combine Player Profiles - Randy Gregory


To be fair they did quote a scout who said he thought Beasley could work in a 4-3 as well. My general point is that if 4-3 teams take tweeners who project as better fits as OLB in the 3-4 scheme off their board it would be almost impossible to find edge rushing talent. Gregory will probably play DE while Beasley and Fowler Jr will probably rush the passer and play OLB in different looks. Anyway, I hope Dupree's a bust

Problem is...

Our coaching staff does not know how to maximize talent on the roster, and their tweener picks over the years have failed miserably. I am not sure I can even name one tweener that ever panned out for us.

 

[Cincyfan78]

Peko sucks. They had the opportunity to replace him with an extremely talented player, but they took a guy that will allow them to not re-sign a player and not spend. That alone should speak volumes about the franchise.

You can try to justify the picks any way you want, but it is clear the franchise has no interest in winning.

Oh, I agree with you 100%. The problem here, is the same problem they have at MLB and at QB...the Bengals truly believe they are fine there.