Game Thread: Official Bengal Draft Thread

[Cincyfan78]

We're going in circles and mostly repeating the same things over so I'll try to make this my last post on the topic..

I'm not cherry picking analysis, this is all from NFL.com

Dante Fowler Jr (drafted by a base 4-3 team)

"Strong-side 3-4 outside linebacker with the physical traits and above-average potential to set the edge or spill runs wide to an early demise."

NFL Events: Combine Player Profiles - Dante Fowler, Jr.


Vic Beasley (drafted by a base 4-3 team)

"Projects as 3-4 outside linebacker. Considered one of the best pure edge rushers in the draft"

NFL Events: Combine Player Profiles - Vic Beasley

Randy Gregory (drafted by a base 4-3 team)

"3-4 outside linebacker with the length, toughness and closing burst to immediately help a run defense"
NFL Events: Combine Player Profiles - Randy Gregory


To be fair they did quote a scout who said he thought Beasley could work in a 4-3 as well. My general point is that if 4-3 teams take tweeners who project as better fits as OLB in the 3-4 scheme off their board it would be almost impossible to find edge rushing talent. Gregory will probably play DE while Beasley and Fowler Jr will probably rush the passer and play OLB in different looks. Anyway, I hope Dupree's a bust

I agree with you it can be done. I have no issue with that. Like Crash said, though, the tweener picks on this team in the past have not done so well. I'd trust a competent coaching staff to make the adjustment(s) needed. Unfortunately for us, that doesn't happen here.

 

[cincygrad]

Problem is...

Our coaching staff does not know how to maximize talent on the roster, and their tweener picks over the years have failed miserably. I am not sure I can even name one tweener that ever panned out for us.

Weren't you just telling us a few weeks ago that Marvin is a good coach and he is only held back by a bad qb?

 

[Cincyfan78]

Weren't you just telling us a few weeks ago that Marvin is a good coach and he is only held back by a bad qb?

No, I don't think so. If I did say that, I was wrong. I don't think Marvin is a bad coach completely. Like all coaches, he certainly has his short comings. I don't think he's the worst coach in the NFL, but He's certainly not the best.

I believe I've said a few times: I do think that he's run his course here. Much like Dusty with the Reds, he was the right guy at the right time when he was hired. Not to mention, he's done a great job of putting together a decent team since a total re-haul in 2010, and getting Brown more out of the picture/control in regards to the draft. However, I think he's taken this team as far as he can.

Now, some of that is due to the QB play. There's no dispute in that. However, even in the games where Dalton wasn't completely terrible...he was out coached in the playoffs. I mean, this team lost to Sanchez, Yates, etc. That just can't happen. Plain and simple.

I think the two go hand in hand. QB play is going to hold this team back, and by default, Marvin continuing to run Dalton out there is making a coaching decision that holds this team back. At least, in the playoffs. Hard to argue what they've done in the regular season for the past 4 years, but you get a bit more leeway in the regular seson than the playoffs. I mean, eventually you have to win a game, or two, in the post season...right?

Don't confuse my previous post with playing devil's advocate to mean that I think Marvin is some great coach. He's done well here, but he certainly has not lived up to the new expectations the past 3+ years in the playoffs. Not many teams would continue to run a coach out there after an 0-6 start to their playoff career in coaching.

 

[cincygrad]

All good points, but I was responding to Crash's comment about our coaches not being able to develop 'tweener' talent.

I actually agree with Crash -- We don't think outside the box enough to maximize player talent. And it's one of the reasons why I think Marvin is overrated.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

No, I don't think so. If I did say that, I was wrong. I don't think Marvin is a bad coach completely. Like all coaches, he certainly has his short comings. I don't think he's the worst coach in the NFL, but He's certainly not the best.

I believe I've said a few times: I do think that he's run his course here. Much like Dusty with the Reds, he was the right guy at the right time when he was hired. Not to mention, he's done a great job of putting together a decent team since a total re-haul in 2010, and getting Brown more out of the picture/control in regards to the draft. However, I think he's taken this team as far as he can.

Now, some of that is due to the QB play. There's no dispute in that. However, even in the games where Dalton wasn't completely terrible...he was out coached in the playoffs. I mean, this team lost to Sanchez, Yates, etc. That just can't happen. Plain and simple.

I think the two go hand in hand. QB play is going to hold this team back, and by default, Marvin continuing to run Dalton out there is making a coaching decision that holds this team back. At least, in the playoffs. Hard to argue what they've done in the regular season for the past 4 years, but you get a bit more leeway in the regular seson than the playoffs. I mean, eventually you have to win a game, or two, in the post season...right?

Don't confuse my previous post with playing devil's advocate to mean that I think Marvin is some great coach. He's done well here, but he certainly has not lived up to the new expectations the past 3+ years in the playoffs. Not many teams would continue to run a coach out there after an 0-6 start to their playoff career in coaching.

No. I never said Marvin was a good coach.

I said the issue with our team was the QB not the coach. That in no way means that he is a good coach, only that he is not the problem. I think our roster is good enough to win a championship despite Marvin if we had a competent QB.

 

[cincygrad]

#Hobs

Shaw looks to turn corner

 

[CrashDavisSports]

#Hobs

Shaw looks to turn corner

Oh Hobson.

Great article though. I have to admit, that article, not so much a fluff piece, but I loved what it said, more about fact and life before becoming a Bengal. It has me pretty excited for his potential.

Big strong corner who did 26 reps at 225 pounds, and runs a 4.39 - 40, while being a film nut. He is smart, instinctive and his athletic measureables come off the chart for his position, and he was one of the captains at USC because of his leadership skills.

We will see how that transitions to the NFL, but I like what he is saying so far and I like that fact he is trying to bury the past and play with a chip on his shoulder to prove that is not the person he is, but rather a mistake he made once that he is trying to out live.

 

[cincygrad]

Oh Hobson.

Great article though. I have to admit, that article, not so much a fluff piece, but I loved what it said, more about fact and life before becoming a Bengal. It has me pretty excited for his potential.

Big strong corner who did 26 reps at 225 pounds, and runs a 4.39 - 40, while being a film nut. He is smart, instinctive and his athletic measureables come off the chart for his position, and he was one of the captains at USC because of his leadership skills.

We will see how that transitions to the NFL, but I like what he is saying so far and I like that fact he is trying to bury the past and play with a chip on his shoulder to prove that is not the person he is, but rather a mistake he made once that he is trying to out live.

At the very least, he'll contribute right away on special teams...... That's important given that Dennard and Dre might have graduated from gunner and will now play corner. I suppose the concern with him as a defensive back is whether or not he is too much of a tweener.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

At the very least, he'll contribute right away on special teams...... That's important given that Dennard and Dre might have graduated from gunner and will now play corner. I suppose the concern with him as a defensive back is whether or not he is too much of a tweener.

His body might say safety, but his instincts and speed still say corner. Perfect player to draft in the 4th. A guy with a huge ceiling, who might find himself between positions but a leader on the field with a brain.

 

[cincygrad]

His body might say safety, but his instincts and speed still say corner. Perfect player to draft in the 4th. A guy with a huge ceiling, who might find himself between positions but a leader on the field with a brain.

Hmm..... That's not what I read. I keep hearing he is stiff and will only be a zone corner (if he's a corner at all). Of course, this was written by the guys on CBS and NFL.com and not our very own draft experts on the SportsHoopla, so it's probably wrong.

 

[alf8478]

@pauldehnerjr: Vance Joseph says in mind of ST coordinator Darrin Simmons, Josh Shaw was the best gunner in the whole draft.

Jackpot!

 

[CrashDavisSports]

Hmm..... That's not what I read. I keep hearing he is stiff and will only be a zone corner (if he's a corner at all). Of course, this was written by the guys on CBS and NFL.com and not our very own draft experts on the SportsHoopla, so it's probably wrong.

I don't know how fluid his hips are or how well he comes out of breaks, etc. He has 4.39 speed. He is very instinctive from what I read in that article as he is well prepared for an opponent because of the amount of film study he does and with him being a former QB, he knows typically what QB's are trying to do to throw open a WR. I have no idea. Of course that is a Hobson article, but Vance Joesph thinks he would have been a first rounder and the Bengals would have had no chance to get him had he not been a knucklehead for a night.

 

[Tubbs1518]

I talked to Shaw for a moment on twitter. He said he was told he will be playing Safety fwiw

 

[CrashDavisSports]

I talked to Shaw for a moment on twitter. He said he was told he will be playing Safety fwiw

Good to know. Thanks for the info. Nice to have a newsman on the forums who can talk with an occasional athlete on the team.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

I talked to Shaw for a moment on twitter. He said he was told he will be playing Safety fwiw

I wonder who made that decision to make him a safety, because based on the beginning of this video, Vance is convinced he is going to come in and play press coverage and nickle.

Draft News Conference: Joseph, Hayes Rd 4

 

[DanBengalfan]

Bengals add 11 CFAs

the calvary has arrived. playoffs are a given. superbowl maybe.