Now the Bears have hired a linebackers coach

[leomaz]

NFL Report: Reggie Herring to coach Bears LBs - ESPN

 

[leomaz]

3-4 here we come.........kinda makes me wonder now

 

[cubzzzfanincali]

Texans? Hmm...a 3-4 defense....

couldn't mean anything, of course.....

 

[cubzzzfanincali]

ok, so I can't help it. The time has come for me to put my chips in.

Lovie Smith was doomed as Chicago coach the minute Emery walked in the door. Yes, of course, Emery had to tread lightly, for both public and internal reasons, and play the long game, and set up publicly-straight-faced reasons how to handle Smith, but Smith was gone in Emery's mind right away.

Emery's approach was simple. Throw a bone many in the public would be as a "but yeah I wanted to see how he would do" CYA move, but in reality implement his plan. Among them was a move to a 3-4, which is getting more obvious by the day.

Hey, it's his right to, it is his team, he is the GM.

But drafting Shea? Over Chandler Jones? Nothing else explains that.

Letting Urlacher not just go, but be insulted on his way out? Creating an additional void at LB - and the terrible LB play we saw this season - certainly didn't hurt his long-term PR campaign, now, did it?

Again, it is his team, he can do what he wants, but as far as I am concerned, we are moving to a 3-4 defense. Melton? Gone. He won't be resigned. Maybe he shouldn't be. Peppers? He should be gone anyway, but this seals it. Maybe trade Lance Briggs while he is at it...the more I think about the way they used Briggs early season, when he was healthy, the more it strikes me as a 3-4 OLB tryout/film clinic.

Don't be shocked if Briggs gets traded.

 

[leomaz]

I think I remember seeing somewhere that it is "cheaper" to field the 3-4 because of the front 7. Doesn't mske sense but I'm pretty sure I've read that. cali...what would have happened if the Bears would have made it to the NFC championship or won the Super Bowl with Lovie last season. My take on Urlacher.....when he didn't take the offer from the Vikings I feel that he seen the writing on the wall and his career was over. I do believecnow that a 3-4 may be imminent

 

[cubzzzfanincali]

in theory, it is cheaper. It depends how many teams are running the 3-4. In general, linebackers are cheaper than D linemen. So Brian Orakpo is cheaper than Mario Williams or Peppers, right? Of course it isn't that simple. Your d linemen have to be even better than normal at stopping the run. This is why Ngata is so well paid...he allows that whole defense to go. Right now, we don't have those guys. Doesn't mean we won't, but sitting here right now, you'd have to think some new personnel are in order. Because I think we are going there.

 

[noonthirtyjoe]

I said 5 minutes after the Shea pick that a 3 4 was in our future. You guys called me crazy.

 

[leomaz]

look beyound the title

I said 5 minutes after the Shea pick that a 3 4 was in our future. You guys called me crazy.

Its much more then that statement....LOL

 

[cubzzzfanincali]

I said 5 minutes after the Shea pick that a 3 4 was in our future. You guys called me crazy.

we still think you are crazy Noon!

 

[NCChiFan]

We have zero 3-4 NT's, so the Bears will need 2 one for back up. We are missing 1 starting 3-4 DE and that is IF we keep Peppers. We are totally lacking bodies at LB to run a 3-4, we have 1, Shea? Briggs to my knowledge has never run in a 3-4. So we need a few more LB's. We are missing a starting CB and we really need a Safety of starting quality.


Where pray tell, are the Bears going to get all these folks to run a 3-4?

 

[cubzzzfanincali]

We have zero 3-4 NT's, so the Bears will need 2 one for back up. We are missing 1 starting 3-4 DE and that is IF we keep Peppers. We are totally lacking bodies at LB to run a 3-4, we have 1, Shea? Briggs to my knowledge has never run in a 3-4. So we need a few more LB's. We are missing a starting CB and we really need a Safety of starting quality.


Where pray tell, are the Bears going to get all these folks to run a 3-4?

I don't think you've diagnosed it right. Worst-case scenario, you get by with Paea as the NT, and use Wootton or his FA replacement and Peppers or his FA replacement as your starting 3, then back them up with draft picks and other journey-level linemen during 2014. Shea is one OLB, the Briggs is the other unless you trade him (or maybe this is why they actually drafted Greene as a 3-4 OLB), and use Bostic (who is a little better suited as a 3-4 ILB than a 4-3 MLB) and another FA and draft picks. 2014 your defense is a little out of whack but in two seasons where you draft front 7 heavy anyway (which they were going to do anyway even if staying in a 4-3) if you draft well you make the switch. Lots of teams have gone through this.

The Bears front 7 doesn't have a lot worth saving investing in it anyway. Who is on the roster? Shea, Bostic, Greene, Paea, Peppers and Briggs. Since Peppers is going to be cut anyway, that really leaves literally only one guy (Briggs) who screams 4-3. One. Do you keep a 4-3 over one aging veteran? I love Lance Briggs, but if this is what Emery wants to do (and given his recent drafting and now picking a new LB coach who is a 3-4 coach, IT SURE SEEMS LIKE IT), this is definitely the time to do it.

 

[anotheridiot]

I said 5 minutes after the Shea pick that a 3 4 was in our future. You guys called me crazy.

called me worse than that.

 

[anotheridiot]

best thing I heard is that he already has worked with our new defensive line coach. we have a clean slate, no real talent on the roster, everyone scoffed that Wooten and Peppers were too small to be 3-4 linemen, but they moved inside for the 4-3. The other thing, age. Peppers and briggs dont have that all out go anymore, extra guy on their side is just gonna help.

Raji is a free agent, so nose tackles are out there. I dont think Melton or Jerimiah scream out 3-4 nose tackles, but they are probably big enough and quick enough to be considered 3-4 ends. With an extra linebacker, it should take some load off the safeties, but this is still gonna be considered a hybrid, I have no doubt we will see both 4-3 and 3-4 fronts this season, so its not gonna be 100% 34. I just want to see players filling gaps, not following the linemen into blocks. Doesnt matter what defense you play, you gotta fill the gaps.

 

[richig07]

everyone scoffed that Wooten and Peppers were too small to be 3-4 linemen, but they moved inside for the 4-3.

Wait... what?

This doesn't make sense.

 

[NCChiFan]

I don't think you've diagnosed it right. Worst-case scenario, you get by with Paea as the NT, and use Wootton or his FA replacement and Peppers or his FA replacement as your starting 3, then back them up with draft picks and other journey-level linemen during 2014. Shea is one OLB, the Briggs is the other unless you trade him (or maybe this is why they actually drafted Greene as a 3-4 OLB), and use Bostic (who is a little better suited as a 3-4 ILB than a 4-3 MLB) and another FA and draft picks. 2014 your defense is a little out of whack but in two seasons where you draft front 7 heavy anyway (which they were going to do anyway even if staying in a 4-3) if you draft well you make the switch. Lots of teams have gone through this.

The Bears front 7 doesn't have a lot worth saving investing in it anyway. Who is on the roster? Shea, Bostic, Greene, Paea, Peppers and Briggs. Since Peppers is going to be cut anyway, that really leaves literally only one guy (Briggs) who screams 4-3. One. Do you keep a 4-3 over one aging veteran? I love Lance Briggs, but if this is what Emery wants to do (and given his recent drafting and now picking a new LB coach who is a 3-4 coach, IT SURE SEEMS LIKE IT), this is definitely the time to do it.

Peppers and Ratliff are the only 2 serviceable D linemen to play in a 3-4 and Ratliff did it a few years ago but he's older now with a bad wheel... Maybe Wooten can back up Peppers, maybe he can play the other end in a 3-4? Maybe not. So you need to find 2 back up DE and 1 NT and no Paea can't play NT in a 3-4, he's way to lite, small. Most traditional, current trend 3-4 NT for stopping the run are 350lb + guys. On obvious passing maybe Paea. What are you going to do with Collins, Melton, Washington? All three are pretty useless in a 3-4.

Move Briggs inside, resign Williams who's played ILB in a 3-4, but injury concerns, who back them up? Who are you OLB's? Bostic? Shea? Greene? Anderson? Bass? Who's capable of backing up Williams and Briggs? You know Briggs has never played ILB in a 3-4, who knows if he is any good at it?

We still need to find a CB and preferably a Safety.

That's a hell of a lot of IF's to try when you know the O is going to be real good. I'm sure Trestman isn't wanting to experiment to much considering all the personnel changes moving to a 3-4 would entail.

 

[NCChiFan]

If we come back with a 4-3, we know we have 3 tech D linemen back, Paea and Ratliff can both play NT, plus a draft pick? Wooten, Bass, Peppers all serviceable DE's could use a real good F/A here.


LB core, would still be Briggs, Williams, Anderson, when healthy they're fully capable. Plus you have 2-3 guys with some experience now to back them up.


Still need a CB and a Safety.


This looks a lot more manageable. And you don't have the risk with completely over hauling a D on a limited budget.

 

[cubzzzfanincali]

Peppers and Ratliff are the only 2 serviceable D linemen to play in a 3-4 and Ratliff did it a few years ago but he's older now with a bad wheel... Maybe Wooten can back up Peppers, maybe he can play the other end in a 3-4? Maybe not. So you need to find 2 back up DE and 1 NT and no Paea can't play NT in a 3-4, he's way to lite, small. Most traditional, current trend 3-4 NT for stopping the run are 350lb + guys. On obvious passing maybe Paea. What are you going to do with Collins, Melton, Washington? All three are pretty useless in a 3-4.


Move Briggs inside, resign Williams who's played ILB in a 3-4, but injury concerns, who back them up? Who are you OLB's? Bostic? Shea? Greene? Anderson? Bass? Who's capable of backing up Williams and Briggs? You know Briggs has never played ILB in a 3-4, who knows if he is any good at it?

We still need to find a CB and preferably a Safety.

That's a hell of a lot of IF's to try when you know the O is going to be real good. I'm sure Trestman isn't wanting to experiment to much considering all the personnel changes moving to a 3-4 would entail.

Ratliff isn't under contract, and Peppers may well not be either. Melton isn't under contract. Nor is Wootten. Nor is Collins. The only real D linemen who are meaningfully certainly under contract right now are Paea and Shea. Washington is irrelevant. You make the decision based on going forward, not on who you had.

I agree that Paea is smaller than ideal, but ~305 pound guys have played NT. I think he is - as I put it - a worst-case scenario option. Obviously, they would pursue a FA or draft a NT, but worst-case is he is your NT. Cutting Peppers gives you ability to sign 2 new D linemen. If you don't draft a NT high or sign one, Paea is your guy, if not, you move him to DE, which he definitely could play in a 3-4.

I didn't suggest Briggs as an ILB. I agree that would be foolish. He is either the OLB on other side from Shea, or he gets traded for more picks (to draft LB with). And getting rid of Briggs frees up another few million to sign another free agent (like another 3-4 OLB). Bostic is one ILB, then sign/draft the other guys.

From the standpoint of roster decisions and guys under contract, we are NO BETTER OFF with respect to being setup to a 4-3 right now. Lance Briggs is the only meaningful reason we have 4-3 guys we are looking at on the 2014 roster. That's it. That's not enough, he is getting old. There is zero question in my mind that Shea would be a better 3-4 OLB than 4-3 OLB. He needs to be blitzing a lot. Look, I didn't agree with drafting him, and I don't particularly like him, but the organization obviously invested in him and he is here.

And the existing front 7 that are under contract isn't an adequate answer. Re-signing last year's guys and trying again doesn't win any arguments under it's own weight, either. I don't know, whether you agree with whether we *should* do it or not, from a football perspective, we certainly CAN do it and it is starting to look a lot more that way to me than you seem to think.

 

[cubzzzfanincali]

If we come back with a 4-3, we know we have 3 tech D linemen back, Paea and Ratliff can both play NT, plus a draft pick? Wooten, Bass, Peppers all serviceable DE's could use a real good F/A here.


LB core, would still be Briggs, Williams, Anderson, when healthy they're fully capable. Plus you have 2-3 guys with some experience now to back them up.


Still need a CB and a Safety.


This looks a lot more manageable. And you don't have the risk with completely over hauling a D on a limited budget.

From a budgetary standpoint, you are totally backwards. It will be way more expensive to keep the existing system, because you have to pay Peppers and Briggs and re-sign Melton. Cut/trade/don't resign and you suddenly have a nice large pile of money plus maybe another pick if Briggs gets traded. If we resign and keep, we have money leftover for maybe one solid new free agent on the whole defense. Maybe. And you can forget re-negotiating with Marshall until next offseason, because that money is gone, and believe me, Emery is thinking about doing that.

What "risk" is being taken? That we might not have the awesome defense anymore? That horse has already left the stable. Now we are stuck overpaying guys for a bad defense. Even if we stick with a 4-3, it's time to retool across the board on defense. There's no risk when you already totally suck.

 

[noonthirtyjoe]

@NCC. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck then it's a duck. Ragi will soon be a Bear. If that happens will you start to believe? There have been clear signs from the day Emory arrived. I hate the 3 4 but that does not change the fact we brought in 3 4 players and now 3 4 coaches.

 

[Peter Gozintite]

From a budgetary standpoint, you are totally backwards. It will be way more expensive to keep the existing system, because you have to pay Peppers and Briggs and re-sign Melton. Cut/trade/don't resign and you suddenly have a nice large pile of money plus maybe another pick if Briggs gets traded. If we resign and keep, we have money leftover for maybe one solid new free agent on the whole defense. Maybe. And you can forget re-negotiating with Marshall until next offseason, because that money is gone, and believe me, Emery is thinking about doing that.

What "risk" is being taken? That we might not have the awesome defense anymore? That horse has already left the stable. Now we are stuck overpaying guys for a bad defense. Even if we stick with a 4-3, it's time to retool across the board on defense. There's no risk when you already totally suck.

Initially i was just reactionary in opposition to the 3-4, but the defense is terrible now. We arent losing anything by starting over, except that if it goes horribly wrong and we end up having to rebuild everything again under a new DC in a couple years. For the most part, I agree with cutting and/or releasing the big money players, none of which are in their prime, and using that dough to build a group of mostly no name guys that can combine to make a functional defense. I will stick to my guns about only needing a middle of the pack defense to compete for the division and in the playoffs. We dont need aging big names, we need competitive, serviceable, smart players. The entire defense needs to be overhauled, lets just rip off the bandaid and get some air in there.