Now that all are in place, who are your top 10 coaches?

[socaljim242]

Shaw has 73 wins since 2011.
Mark Dantonio has 67 wins since 2011

With Dantonio having four season prior to that to build. Are you saying Harbuagh and his one ten win or more season is a better a starting point than four years of Dantonio? That just makes Dantonio sound worse.

 

[socaljim242]

So what??? They were a 1-11 team 4 years earlier. He turned them into a top 5 team. You repeating this doesn't help your point at all. Shaw was given years of tutelage under Harbaugh and then handed a top-end program. Dantonio took over a dumpster fire at MSU.

He was handed a team that won ten or more games once. Doing that doesn't make it some sort of can't miss dynasty.

 

[socaljim242]

@socaljim242
I’ll admit I missed Shaw on my list and probably put him at 5, just above Dantonio, due to consistency, and move everyone down one.

That was my whole point . I just picked dantonio as someone Shaw should be close to. Saying Shaw doesn't belong there is just wrong. He's done enough after Harbaughs left to show he's a good coach.

 

[Across The Field]

He was handed a team that won ten or more games once. Doing that doesn't make it some sort of can't miss dynasty.

And Dantonio took over a team that was a total wreck. Did you think Harbaugh was gonna come in and take a 1-11 team to 12 wins for 4 years? No, it took time. But in 4 years, they went from 1 win to 4, to 5, to 8, and to 12. That's two years of really good and elite football, and Shaw was there the whole time learning from Harbaugh. Why you keep just ignoring that I'm not sure

 

[7Samurai13]

That was my whole point . I just picked dantonio as someone Shaw should be close to. Saying Shaw doesn't belong there is just wrong. He's done enough after Harbaughs left to show he's a good coach.

They are very comparable in my opinion and if somehow MSU could sign Shaw after Dantonio retired (no that won’t happen), I wouldn’t be upset at all. Both have their own recruiting difficulties that are beyond their control but are usually able to put up solid teams.

 

[Across The Field]

Shaw has 73 wins since 2011.
Mark Dantonio has 67 wins since 2011

With Dantonio having four season prior to that to build. Are you saying Harbuagh and his one ten win or more season is a better a starting point than four years of Dantonio? That just makes Dantonio sound worse.

I'm saying Harbaugh and his 4 years of progress completely turning the program around and giving Shaw everything he needs to hit double digit wins every year in a weak conference is a hell of a lot easier than taking a team that has been under .500 for 4 years and building them up by yourself. Shaw would not have 72 wins if he was coaching in the B1G East for the last 6 years. He's been very lucky.

 

[socaljim242]

And Dantonio took over a team that was a total wreck. Did you think Harbaugh was gonna come in and take a 1-11 team to 12 wins for 4 years? No, it took time. But in 4 years, they went from 1 win to 4, to 5, to 8, and to 12. That's two years of really good and elite football, and Shaw was there the whole time learning from Harbaugh. Why you keep just ignoring that I'm not sure

Harbaugh hasn't shown he can sustain anything yet. He's never stayed anywhere long enough to keep something going. Shaw has been on his own longer than he was with Harbaugh and clearly showed he's a really good coach.

 

[Across The Field]

Harbaugh hasn't shown he can sustain anything yet. He's never stayed anywhere long enough to keep something going. Shaw has been on his own longer than he was with Harbaugh and clearly showed he's a really good coach.

And the only HC experience Shaw has is at a program that his mentor built for him. I've been vocal for some time about Shaw being overrated and I still stand firmly behind it. He was given a program that was built up by Harbaugh. He was shown how to recruit, how to to coach, and he inherited all the relationships Harbaugh had built. Had Shaw taken the team over in 2007 and built them to where they are today, I would absolutely say he's a top 5 coach in the nation for sure. However, he's regressing the further he gets from Harbaugh's time there.

 

[socaljim242]

I'm saying Harbaugh and his 4 years of progress completely turning the program around and giving Shaw everything he needs to hit double digit wins every year in a weak conference is a hell of a lot easier than taking a team that has been under .500 for 4 years and building them up by yourself. Shaw would not have 72 wins if he was coaching in the B1G East for the last 6 years. He's been very lucky.

You don't know that. Shaws style is a perfect fit for that conference and maybe his clam demeanor would have made him a better fit as a coach for Michigan than Harbaugh is.

 

[7Samurai13]

That was my whole point . I just picked dantonio as someone Shaw should be close to. Saying Shaw doesn't belong there is just wrong. He's done enough after Harbaughs left to show he's a good coach.

I do believe that Dantonio can take a team to higher highs but obviously he can have lower lows. So it’s a matter of, are you willing to subject yourself to a 3-9 season if it meant you had a playoff caliber season the year before?

 

[socaljim242]

And the only HC experience Shaw has is at a program that his mentor built for him. I've been vocal for some time about Shaw being overrated and I still stand firmly behind it. He was given a program that was built up by Harbaugh. He was shown how to recruit, how to to coach, and he inherited all the relationships Harbaugh had built. Had Shaw taken the team over in 2007 and built them to where they are today, I would absolutely say he's a top 5 coach in the nation for sure. However, he's regressing the further he gets from Harbaugh's time there.

Shaws been a head coach for seven seasons. I think we can safely assume he's his own man now. You don't win three conference championships and still give all the credit to the prior coach who didn't win one.

 

[Across The Field]

You don't know that. Shaws style is a perfect fit for that conference and maybe his clam demeanor would have made him a better fit as a coach for Michigan than Harbaugh is.

I find it extremely hard to believe he would be anywhere near as successful in a much harder conference. In his time at Stanford, who's the best team he's beaten? He was gifted a Rose win in 2012 against 8-5 Wisconsin who was only there because OSU was on probation. Then he beat a wildly overrated Iowa team who didn't have a ranked win at all that year.

He's beaten one team OOC with double digit wins in 7 years, and that team didn't have a ranked win. Put that into perspective when talking about the job he's done.

 

[Across The Field]

Shaws been a head coach for seven seasons. I think we can safely assume he's his own man now. You don't win three conference championships and still give all the credit to the prior coach who didn't win one.

And 2 of his 3 conference titles were won with Harbaugh's recruits leading the way. Since Harbaugh's recruits have cleared out of the program, he's had two 5-loss seasons out of 4 years. He's regressing.

 

[socaljim242]

And 2 of his 3 conference titles were won with Harbaugh's recruits leading the way. Since Harbaugh's recruits have cleared out of the program, he's had two 5-loss seasons out of 4 years. He's regressing.

Shaw did have Stanfords highest final ranking (#3) five years after Harbaugh left. That kinda contradicts that it was all Harbaughs recruits.

 

[Codaxx]

I'm saying Harbaugh and his 4 years of progress completely turning the program around and giving Shaw everything he needs to hit double digit wins every year in a weak conference is a hell of a lot easier than taking a team that has been under .500 for 4 years and building them up by yourself. Shaw would not have 72 wins if he was coaching in the B1G East for the last 6 years. He's been very lucky.

I am starting to wonder about this theory. Franchione was a great coach with Patterson as his DC. They separated and it became apparent who the great coach was. SAME thing could be said for Hawkins and Petersen. Perhaps Shaw had a bigger hand in the development of Stanford than people give him credit for.

 

[Across The Field]

Shaw did have Stanfords highest final ranking (#3) five years after Harbaugh left. That kinda contradicts that it was all Harbaughs recruits.

Yeah, and that's the only year he's even been top 10 since Harbaugh's recruits left. Again, two 5-loss seasons sandwich that one really good year. Not only that, but look at next year. This offense is completely 1-dimensional. Love puts up great stats but he's all they have. They're lucky he came back because without him, they're likely a 6-6 team. They were without him last year for one game and were lucky as hell to get past arguably the worst P5 team in the nation.

 

[Across The Field]

I am starting to wonder about this theory. Franchione was a great coach with Patterson as his DC. They separated and it became apparent who the great coach was. SAME thing could be said for Hawkins and Petersen. Perhaps Shaw had a bigger hand in the development of Stanford than people give him credit for.

What would give you that impression? If anything, they're starting to regress under him the further they get from the Harbaugh years.

 

[Codaxx]

What would give you that impression? If anything, they're starting to regress under him the further they get from the Harbaugh years.

He has won double digit games in 5 out of 7 years, that is amazing at Stanford. A lot of that without having a special QB like Luck. Remember the PAC North was a mess 5 years ago. It is certainly improving with additions like Leach and Petersen.

 

[Across The Field]

He has won double digit games in 5 out of 7 years, that is amazing at Stanford. A lot of that without having a special QB like Luck. Remember the PAC North was a mess 5 years ago. It is certainly improving with additions like Leach and Petersen.

It was a mess, which has helped make it easy for him to take a program that was prebuilt and win games with them. What Harbaugh did was amazing. Shaw was handed the keys and told not to mess it up, which he was able to do with Harbaugh's kids but now it's slowly declining.

 

[ericd7633]

I'll never understand the hate for Shaw. Since he's had his recruits only(past 3 seasons) this is his resume:

Winning%: 76% 8th best P5 winning%
Finished in the top 5, top 15 and top 20.

Stanford has slipped to the 8th best P5 winning percentage with his recruits. Lmao.