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None Shall Pass...

TREFF

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Fitzpatrick makes just as bad of decisions tbh.
31 scores to 15 picks says otherwise, a Harvard education says otherwise. Remember, I'm not saying he's great, no one is, but he's way above what Geno had shown to this point
 

TREFF

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Again, not saying Geno is anything special, but don't you think he SHOULD be better this season with the talent he has at receivers??

Whats interesting is that Fitzpatrick had his career season last year, and many are talking him up to be the Jets savior... He ONLY threw to Decker and Marshall, so it is clear that the receivers made his season and not the other way around... If you want to say he was a good fit, sure you are probably right... His Harvard education and being smart sure helped his mental game, which is a big aspect of QBing... BUT, I just have a hard time 100% dismissing Geno, he never had the talent surrounding him, and he is a young QB with more talent and skill than Fitzpatrick...

Now, I am not saying Geno will be anything great, but I do believe at the end of the season he will play AROUND league average QB... I wonder who was the last bad QB with such good receivers around him who had a terrible FANTASY type season...
Well, let's keep this in perspective. The conversation started with whether Marshall/Decker could stay in the top 12 discussion with Geno. Just becuase I think Geno is a big enough step down from Fitz that him being QB would, without a doubt, keep both of them out of that discussion, doesn't mean I also think he's bad enough that they'll suddenly turn into waiver fodder. Like I said earlier, they'd just take one step down, Marshall would go from borderline elite, to a standard, typical guy that might be a WR1, like about a dozen other guys "might be", Decker would go from a strong WR2-borderline WR1, to a typical WR2, maybe slip enough to be a WR3, depending on how locked into Marshall, Geno would become.

Yes I'm sure Geno would show improvement, but just not enough that I'd back up either Marshall or Decker as a potential top 12 WR this year. That doesn't mean I think they'll be crap, they just won't be the studs they were last year.
 
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MilkSpiller22

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Well, let's keep this in perspective. The conversation started with whether Marshall/Decker could stay in the top 12 discussion with Geno. Just becuase I think Geno is a big enough step down from Fitz that him being QB would, without a doubt, keep both of them out of that discussion, doesn't mean I also think he's bad enough that they'll suddenly turn into waiver fodder. Like I said earlier, they'd just take one step down, Marshall would go from borderline elite, to a standard WR1, Decker would go from a strong WR2-borderline WR1, to a typical WR2, maybe slip enough to be a WR3, depending on how locked into Marshall, Geno would become.

Yes I'm sure Geno would show improvement, but just not enough that I'd back up either Marshall or Decker as a potential top 12 WR this year. That doesn't mean I think they'll be crap, they just won't be the studs they were last year.


I understand that, as I also picked marshall as one of the 6 most likely to leave the top 12... I think my argument became more of a digression when Harold made the Fitz to Geno comment...

But my reasoning against marshall is not really related to the QB change... It is more about him being 32...
 

TKOSpikes

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31 scores to 15 picks says otherwise, a Harvard education says otherwise. Remember, I'm not saying he's great, no one is, but he's way above what Geno had shown to this point


Check 4th quarter numbers and you wouldn't be as enthused. The difference between fantasy and reality, I guess. But a good decision maker he is not.

Probably checking in way late here and my point makes no point. Just saw decision maker in reference to Fitz and had to chime in.
 

TREFF

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Check 4th quarter numbers and you wouldn't be as enthused. The difference between fantasy and reality, I guess. But a good decision maker he is not.

Probably checking in way late here and my point makes no point. Just saw decision maker in reference to Fitz and had to chime in.
Ok, well in comparison to Geno, he's good. But in the big picture, its like saying Moe is a good decision maker, while Larry and Curly are bad decision makers
 

TREFF

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Let's put it this way. .Fitz could compete for, not necessarily win, but compete for, a starting job on about a third of the NFL teams, the others have established starters who he'd automatically back up. Whereas Geno...if I were Jerry Jones 2015, Geno was a free agent, I'd still try Matt Cassel and Brandon Weedon before calling Geno's agent. .that's how big of a gap I see. I may even call Teebow first
 

MilkSpiller22

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Let's put it this way. .Fitz could compete for, not necessarily win, but compete for, a starting job on about a third of the NFL teams, the others have established starters who he'd automatically back up. Whereas Geno...if I were Jerry Jones 2015, Geno was a free agent, I'd still try Matt Cassel and Brandon Weedon before calling Geno's agent. .that's how big of a gap I see. I may even call Teebow first


Nobody is saying Geno is good... But you do have to admit, he didn't get a great whack of it in his 2 seasons... He had a coach who even stated he didn't care about offense, and showed it by running the ball even when down...
One season, he had absolutely no WRs and then the next season he had ONLY one receiver and that was Decker, who we could probably agree that he is a below average #1 WR at best... I love him as the number 2, and with a strong #1...

The jets from the beginning tried to limit Geno, yes, that is really good for his confidence and evolution...

I would like to see Geno start this season, just like I Hoped he would have started last season instead of Fitz... Which he would have if some bastard didn't punch him in the jaw...LOL...

All I am saying, is lets see what he could do with actual talent around him and with a coach that is LESS conservative than Rex Ryan... He will probably just be a place holder, but who knows...
 

SmokingMonkey

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also not claiming Geno will be a great QB by any means, but remember way back in the 1990s and early 2000s, when NFL teams let QBs marinate a season or two on the bench?

You know, so they could learn how to play pro-style football.
Would not shock me one bit if Geno could develop into a steady backup QB like Fitz did in his career.

Kid's only 25 years old, getting ready for his 4th NFL season. Not exactly washed up just yet, he practices and works out, he's not another J.Russell, just probably needed that wake up call that he wasn't 'the man' at this level of football.
 

TREFF

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also not claiming Geno will be a great QB by any means, but remember way back in the 1990s and early 2000s, when NFL teams let QBs marinate a season or two on the bench?

You know, so they could learn how to play pro-style football.
Would not shock me one bit if Geno could develop into a steady backup QB like Fitz did in his career.

Kid's only 25 years old, getting ready for his 4th NFL season. Not exactly washed up just yet, he practices and works out, he's not another J.Russell, just probably needed that wake up call that he wasn't 'the man' at this level of football.
Or he is a Jamarcus Russell
 

TREFF

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Nobody is saying Geno is good... But you do have to admit, he didn't get a great whack of it in his 2 seasons... He had a coach who even stated he didn't care about offense, and showed it by running the ball even when down...
One season, he had absolutely no WRs and then the next season he had ONLY one receiver and that was Decker, who we could probably agree that he is a below average #1 WR at best... I love him as the number 2, and with a strong #1...

The jets from the beginning tried to limit Geno, yes, that is really good for his confidence and evolution...

I would like to see Geno start this season, just like I Hoped he would have started last season instead of Fitz... Which he would have if some bastard didn't punch him in the jaw...LOL...

All I am saying, is lets see what he could do with actual talent around him and with a coach that is LESS conservative than Rex Ryan... He will probably just be a place holder, but who knows...
I would even go so far as to predict that IF the Jets go into the season with Geno, Petty and Hackenberg, they'll be realistically out of it by midseason, and likely see what they've got with Petty and/or Hackenberg the rest of the way, so even IF Geno is the starter, I don't think it really matters much, as I doubt he'd finish more than 8-9 games before they benched him, maybe not for an improvement, but for roster evaluating of the other options for future. Which then REALLY throws Marshall and Deckers' values into the twilight zone.
 

HaroldSeattle

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I would even go so far as to predict that IF the Jets go into the season with Geno, Petty and Hackenberg, they'll be realistically out of it by midseason, and likely see what they've got with Petty and/or Hackenberg the rest of the way, so even IF Geno is the starter, I don't think it really matters much, as I doubt he'd finish more than 8-9 games before they benched him, maybe not for an improvement, but for roster evaluating of the other options for future. Which then REALLY throws Marshall and Deckers' values into the twilight zone.
I'm in agreement. Your post lays out exactly how I see this playing out if Geno starts.
 

ehb5

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31 scores to 15 picks says otherwise, a Harvard education says otherwise. Remember, I'm not saying he's great, no one is, but he's way above what Geno had shown to this point

His education means nothing to me. He doesnt make good decisions on the football field regardless of where he went to school. Fitzpatrick was not as good as his numbers indicate.
 

MilkSpiller22

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I would even go so far as to predict that IF the Jets go into the season with Geno, Petty and Hackenberg, they'll be realistically out of it by midseason, and likely see what they've got with Petty and/or Hackenberg the rest of the way, so even IF Geno is the starter, I don't think it really matters much, as I doubt he'd finish more than 8-9 games before they benched him, maybe not for an improvement, but for roster evaluating of the other options for future. Which then REALLY throws Marshall and Deckers' values into the twilight zone.


But if Geno is that bad, and the Jets are too, then they will be throwing the ball MORE, not less...

So, yes. they will have some inconsistent games due to being on a low scoring team, but the garbage time stats should result in end of season stats that look better...

If Geno is THAT bad, I can definitely see Marshall AND decker having games where they score 10 or less standard fantasy points combined... But they both should also get more 10+ points games as well...

And those terrible games are usually predictable... Generally good defenses are the ones that shut down bad offenses... average or bad defenses usually still give up points and yards to bad offenses...
 

TREFF

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But if Geno is that bad, and the Jets are too, then they will be throwing the ball MORE, not less...

So, yes. they will have some inconsistent games due to being on a low scoring team, but the garbage time stats should result in end of season stats that look better...

If Geno is THAT bad, I can definitely see Marshall AND decker having games where they score 10 or less standard fantasy points combined... But they both should also get more 10+ points games as well...

And those terrible games are usually predictable... Generally good defenses are the ones that shut down bad offenses... average or bad defenses usually still give up points and yards to bad offenses...
If he's that bad, which he is, passing more will just lead to more bad results. Simply passing more often when your competing barely 50% isn't going to magically create decent numbers based on volume. More passes means even more incompletions, which leads to more 3 and outs, passing more means more INT's, which obviously leads to not having the ball, which, in a catch 22, leads to less passing attempts overall.
 

MilkSpiller22

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If he's that bad, which he is, passing more will just lead to more bad results. Simply passing more often when your competing barely 50% isn't going to magically create decent numbers based on volume. More passes means even more incompletions, which leads to more 3 and outs, passing more means more INT's, which obviously leads to not having the ball, which, in a catch 22, leads to less passing attempts overall.

But the worse he is the less time he will start... and the sooner they will go to Petty or Hackenberg... I am sure you think there is at least one Career backup/spot starter of those 3...
 

TREFF

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But the worse he is the less time he will start... and the sooner they will go to Petty or Hackenberg... I am sure you think there is at least one Career backup/spot starter of those 3...
Having not seem either of the other two in an actual NFL game, I have no preconceived notions about either of them. I know both had the look of being career journeymen/back up types coming out of college, but, either or both could surprise. The one thing I have seen enough to feel relatively safe in saying, is that Geno is not a starting caliber NFL QB, and I have doubts as to whether I'd want him as the backup.

But overall I'm utterly clueless as to what your last post meant to prove or explain in the context of this discussion. Are you saying Petty or Hackenberg would be better, therefore they should start Geno, let him prove that he sucks, so they'll be forced to move on, and then, Marshall and Decker will be better off?
 

MilkSpiller22

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Having not seem either of the other two in an actual NFL game, I have no preconceived notions about either of them. I know both had the look of being career journeymen/back up types coming out of college, but, either or both could surprise. The one thing I have seen enough to feel relatively safe in saying, is that Geno is not a starting caliber NFL QB, and I have doubts as to whether I'd want him as the backup.

But overall I'm utterly clueless as to what your last post meant to prove or explain in the context of this discussion. Are you saying Petty or Hackenberg would be better, therefore they should start Geno, let him prove that he sucks, so they'll be forced to move on, and then, Marshall and Decker will be better off?


No, not saying either will be better than Geno... They could be, but who knows... What I was saying was since you clearly think Geno is epicly bad.... That if He is THAT bad, he wont be starting for long... and one of the 2 would take over...

I don't really understand your overwhelming hate for geno... But what I don't understand even more is how you think that if he is as bad as you expect him to how it would take so long to replace him...

The real sad truth, if Geno is as bad as you are saying he will be what will likely happen is that after week2 Fitzpatrick will be paid...
 

TREFF

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No, not saying either will be better than Geno... They could be, but who knows... What I was saying was since you clearly think Geno is epicly bad.... That if He is THAT bad, he wont be starting for long... and one of the 2 would take over...

I don't really understand your overwhelming hate for geno... But what I don't understand even more is how you think that if he is as bad as you expect him to how it would take so long to replace him...

The real sad truth, if Geno is as bad as you are saying he will be what will likely happen is that after week2 Fitzpatrick will be paid...
Its not hatred for Geno, its simply calling it as it is. .he sucks. I've got no personal stake in the Jets QB situation whatsoever, unless it's Fitz..cuz if it ain't Fitz, I'll most likely allow the Jets position players to be someone else's headaches. Not becuase I think Geno is so damned bad that their guaranteed to be bad, but becuase the uncertainty surrounding Geno, his backups, the teams commitment to him, to the other QB's, and which ones will be around for the future. .leads to me not know where the eff to slot them, so I'd rather stay away.

And if they don't sign Fitz by the start off the pre season, they won't at all, becuase he'll likely be on someone else's roster. Lots of things can happen where other teams wold enter the discussion and gladly sign him if the Jets gamble for too long. One thing I certainly won't be doing is assuming that they'll go get him after giving Geno a quick trial run and having that be the reason I go ahead and bank on any Jets player
 

MilkSpiller22

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Its not hatred for Geno, its simply calling it as it is. .he sucks. I've got no personal stake in the Jets QB situation whatsoever, unless it's Fitz..cuz if it ain't Fitz, I'll most likely allow the Jets position players to be someone else's headaches. Not becuase I think Geno is so damned bad that their guaranteed to be bad, but becuase the uncertainty surrounding Geno, his backups, the teams commitment to him, to the other QB's, and which ones will be around for the future. .leads to me not know where the eff to slot them, so I'd rather stay away.

And if they don't sign Fitz by the start off the pre season, they won't at all, becuase he'll likely be on someone else's roster. Lots of things can happen where other teams wold enter the discussion and gladly sign him if the Jets gamble for too long. One thing I certainly won't be doing is assuming that they'll go get him after giving Geno a quick trial run and having that be the reason I go ahead and bank on any Jets player


your forgetting this is NY... IF Geno is EPICLY bad, the way you were giving his numbers to be... then Jets will panic, NY media will force the Jets hand... and they will get somebody, whether it is Fitzpatrick or someone else...

Luckily, I don't think Geno will be as bad as you do... At least I have to be optimistic as a Jets fan... But like I have mentioned before, he has the weapons that he never had before AND he has a different coach, hopefully one that allows him to play and take chances... So there is enough unknown to see potential...
 

TKOSpikes

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He's better than EJ Manuel! I'm not ruling him out yet.
 
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