Series Thread: NLDS: Los Angeles Dodgers vs. New York Mets

[Fountain City Blues]

Wait a second. . .you are actually defending this? That is a level of homerism rarely seen.

Be honest with yourself right now man. If the situation was reversed, would you feel the same way?

Problem is he's actually correct if you look at the general precedent set by umpires across MLB. That combined with 6.01 in the actual written rulebook creates some... headscratching situations. MLB needs to straighten this out one way or another.

 

[jeep99tj]

There's no question. I'm not saying the Met's starter should get himself tossed, but at some point, you have to defend your teammate. He slid so late, that he knew the guy was totally defenseless. Gutless

I wouldn't be surprised if Utley comes up with concussion like symptoms from the hit he took to the head (not as bad as it looked since he took the blow on the earflap) so he misses the rest of this series. It probably won't happen, but I wouldn't be surprised.

 

[calsnowskier]

I wouldn't be surprised if Utley comes up with concussion like symptoms from the hit he took to the head (not as bad as it looked since he took the blow on the earflap) so he misses the rest of this series. It probably won't happen, but I wouldn't be surprised.

If Utley is removed from the Dodgers roster due to injury (even concussion, I would assume), he is ineligible for the remainder of the season. I doubt the dogs would go that far. I would not be surprised to see them avoid playing him, though, for his own safety.

If he is suspended, though, would the dogs be able to replace him on the roster for those games, or they have to play with a 24-man roster?

 

[Fountain City Blues]

If Utley is removed from the Dodgers roster due to injury (even concussion, I would assume), he is ineligible for the remainder of the season. I doubt the dogs would go that far. I would not be surprised to see them avoid playing him, though, for his own safety.

If he is suspended, though, would the dogs be able to replace him on the roster for those games, or they have to play with a 24-man roster?

I believe they can if it's injury. Toronto got to replace Cecil.

 

[calsnowskier]

I believe they can if it's injury. Toronto got to replace Cecil.

No question they can replace him due to injury. That was not the question, though.

If he is replaced due to injury, he is ineligible for the remaineder of the playoffs. I know this to be the case. But if he is suspended, can they replace him for the games he is suspended for and still add him back to the roster afterwards?

 

[calsnowskier]

Utley was out 4 times:
1) willful interference
2) neighborhood play
3) never touched the bag
4) abandoned the field



Sorry, but anybody who can look at Utley's slide, and say "that looked clean," ....is either dumb or lying...but more than likely probably both.

I posted this on the Giants board in response to someone actually posting Olberman's tweet on this...

1) agree. But it is a judgement call, not open to replay.
2) nope. Bad throw and his back was to the runner. The neighborhood can only be called if the defender is acting in self preservation.
3) nope. As far as Utley was concerned, it was a dead play. He had already been declared "out". In the event of a replay overturning a call on the field, runners are awarded bases based on umpire discretion. In this case, it was a simple decision.

Olberman did not bring up point 4, though, and that is a good point. In the event of a replay challenge, all players are supposed to remain on the field. Utleys leaving the field might be a good argument for the dogs forfeiting the right to challenge.

Good point.

 

[Beaker]

Problem is he's actually correct if you look at the general precedent set by umpires across MLB. That combined with 6.01 in the actual written rulebook creates some... headscratching situations. MLB needs to straighten this out one way or another.

This is something I experienced after the Fail Mary. I will not try to change your mind or argue with you buddy. I don't think you are "stupid" or anything like that, but if you think that was in any way a reasonable call after looking at the same videos we have all seen, then there is no point in even opening a dialog.

In all seriousness, congratulations on the win. I was actually cheering for the Dodgers in this game since I want that series to go 5. I just think the Mets got screwed.

 

[broncosmitty]

There's no question. I'm not saying the Met's starter should get himself tossed, but at some point, you have to defend your teammate. He slid so late, that he knew the guy was totally defenseless. Gutless

100% agree. I'm not a Mets fan, just watching a game, but that was total Bullshit. Normally, I'd say a pitcher should never put one above a guys ribcage, but I think the Mets should check out Utley's headgear next game

double quote, whatevs.

I have a Kershaw minor league jersey, cuz my cous does that host family deal, n I get family tix. I have a Mets hat since they aren't the Yanks. There's no allegiance here. I do like blue n orange together. Opposites on the color wheel n shit. But that makes no difference. Gibby. (Chainsawin' his way round the bases with brake lights in the background. Watched it in KMart live, after salmon fishin as a little dude. Love baseball, you know this my friend.)

Anyways, that call got me worked up.


I'm still honestly angry.

That ain't my kind of baseball.

 

[Tai Chi≈Surfing]

LOS ANGELES -- New York Mets players had strong reactions to Chase Utley's slide on Saturday that fractured shortstop Ruben Tejada's right fibula.

In fact, Kelly Johnson applauded a tweet from Justin Upton of the San Diego Padres, who wrote that if Troy Tulowitzki had been affected instead of Tejada, there would be a rule immediately instituted to protect middle infielders.

Upton tweeted:
"If that was a superstar shortstop we would have a *Tulo Rule being enforced tomorrow."

(a la, the *Buster Posey rule)


Mets players objected to several aspects of the play, including that Utley went airborne. They also objected to umpires deeming it a force play and not the "neighborhood play." Utley was ruled safe upon a replay review because Tejada ever-so-slightly did not touch the bag.

Johnson:

"We're losing our starting shortstop now for the rest of the playoffs. He's got a broken fibula. It cost us potentially this game. And we don't have anything to show for it. Also, did he touch the bag? We're talking a millimeter. We were right there. And we've got enough evidence to overturn that? But we can't find a rule in the rulebook for that slide -- or whatever it was … tackle?

"Chase is playing hard. He's doing his thing. He's in the moment. That's not the issue. The issue is he hit our shortstop first before hitting dirt. The question is at what point is that illegal? At what point do we say, ‘Hey, man, we missed something here.' We've got rules at home plate to protect our guys. What's the difference? Ruben stuck his neck out there to make a play to try to get the bag and then to turn to make a throw. And before he can get the ball out of the glove he's getting tackled. There just needs to be something that says, ‘Here's the rule. Here's what is says.' Because I'm not getting that. I don't get it.

"It's sad. I don't get it. I really don't. You guys saw it. It's obviously up to opinion and judgment. So we are all going to have one. I just want to know why there's not something in place that's going to protect us. I just don't get that. That's what I don't get. He's in the vicinity of the bag. Yes, [Utley] probably could have touched the bag had he put his hand out on it. But there's got to be something in there that says we've got to hit dirt, we've got to slide -- not jump into, break fibulas and knock players out of games."

Michael Cuddyer:

"That's not a slide. That's a tackle."

David Wright:

"Only Chase knows what the intent was. There's a way to play the game hard, but only Chase knows going in there what his intent was. I have a problem with the play on a number of different levels -- one being the slide itself. In my opinion, he wasn't anywhere close to the bag. With that being said, he never touched the bag. And, I think, the neighborhood play is there to protect players trying to turn double plays from coming in and getting hurt. I have a lot of questions. I'm not sure if they've been answered or not. I'm not trying to call out the officials or the officiating. I'm just confused as to that play on a number of different levels. It was a big play in the game. They put some good at-bats together after that. It definitely seemed like after that play we lost the momentum and they came up with some big hits.

"I have a lot of questions. It's not sour grapes. It's not trying to call out the umpires. I'm just confused as to a number of different reasons why he was called safe right there."

Wright, asked about his 2010 statement that Utley would hurt somebody someday with his aggressive slides, added: "He has injured people. This isn't something new. I'm not going to sit here and answer on behalf of Chase. Chase can answer for himself. But when he's running to second base with Ruben's back turned, I don't know what his intent is."

 

[broncosmitty]

I wouldn't be surprised if Utley comes up with concussion like symptoms from the hit he took to the head (not as bad as it looked since he took the blow on the earflap) so he misses the rest of this series. It probably won't happen, but I wouldn't be surprised.

It'd be smart on his agents part.

 

[broncosmitty]

Damn straight Michael Cuddyer.

 

[Tai Chi≈Surfing]

More importantly....hey, Joe Torre...why did your staff feel so overly obligated to give your buddy, Don Mattingly such an early Xmas gift on that bogus challenge in the 1st place???

 

[OutlawImmortal]

These almost my point for me. This rule is not enforced, but it is on the books. Why have it on the books if it is ignored? The Posey rule is really just a repeat of this rule. If the catcher prevents the runner from getting to the plate and does not have the ball, the run should count. If the runner attempts to dislodge the ball instead of go for the plate, the runner should be out.

I feel the same with the play at second. I also feel that way with the tag play at 3rd when the 3B man drops his knee blocking the bag. All of these are interference, by the rules.

Solid point, no arguments there.

Wait a second. . .you are actually defending this? That is a level of homerism rarely seen.

Be honest with yourself right now man. If the situation was reversed, would you feel the same way?

I sort of have, Hanley was hitting .500 in the playoffs before he was hit by a pitch that broke several ribs on a pitch thrown by Michael Wacha but I didn't call for Wacha to get hit in the head. I understood that it was bad luck and that that sort of thing can happen in sports.

I wouldn't be happy at all, no doubt about it but I don't think I would blame the runner because as I said, I've seen this play so many times and have seen nothing called (which was my point from the beginning.) I think one of the Mets players said it best, there should be something in the rules that says you have to hit the dirt before you make contact with a player. As it stands right now, based on the way Umps have interpreted the rule for years, it was a clean slide.

I don't think it cost the Mets the game either, Kendrick was pretty close to the bag and even if Tejada does avoid Utley and gets the throw off, he is much more likely to throw it away or not get it there on time than he was of getting Kendrick out. The DP was not possible and the tying run would have scored either way and the inning would have continued.

Also it's not just me, I've seen Mets fans say the same on other sites believe or not. I'm pretty sure Huwaryu also said he didn't see the slide as interference/dirty.

It was one of the dirtiest plays I've ever seen. I'm all for going hard to break up a double play, but not for intentionally trying to hurt someone

Just as David Wright said, no one knows Utley's intent other than Utley, and I seriously doubt any player in the league would deliberately try to cause such a serious injury.

Anyway guys, I think I've dropped enough of my cents on this topic. I hate to see a guy get seriously injured and I hope that he has a full recovery and comes back next year.

 

[mr.hockey4242]

Well, on the brightside instead of seeing the mets deliver a quick kill in 3 games with Harvey on Monday.

We get to watch Kershaw choke away another season in game 4.

Might even try and pull a cartman and lick up some tears

 

[calsnowskier]

Let me make one thing clear about my argument...

My opinion is that the slide was dirty as fuck. I never wish harm on someone, but I will make the exception in Utleys case. I hope he has a concussion. I would not have a problem with the Mets pitcher (Harvey?) on Monday throwing high and in. That was one of the more disgusting plays I have seen in recent baseball.

My arguments have been about the "legalities" of baseball. What do the RULES say should have happened? What did REPLAY show? Did the UMPIRES follow the RULES in their calls. I attempted to put no personal biases in my analysis of the play. My biased opinion is the Dodgers were dirty and they should immediately be forfeit from the playoffs. But there is no logic behind that statement.

 

[Tai Chi≈Surfing]

SCHOENFIELD: UTLEY'S SLIDE BROKE THE RULES
ESPN's David Schoenfield says Chase Utley's play that ended with Ruben Tejada leaving with a fractured right fibula has nothing to do with "'the way the game has always been played.' We evolve. Let's play the game the right way ... clean and fair and by the rules." Should have been out

 

[Xulu Bak]

I don't really care about the outcome of Mets-Dodgers series, but...

That was a blatantly dirty play, and frankly, one of the worst displays of officiating I've ever seen in any sport. Not only should Utley have been out, but it should have been interference. A hard slide into second to break up a double play is one thing, but he went in extremely late, and out of his way to avoid the base. As pointed out, the rules already exist for both calls to have been made.

 

[Used 2 B Hu]

Also it's not just me, I've seen Mets fans say the same on other sites believe or not. I'm pretty sure Huwaryu also said he didn't see the slide as interference/dirty.

I'm 100% sure that Utley did not want to break Tejada's leg. This is the way he has always played. Also, Murphy's toss left Reuben vulnerable and he probably should have just eaten the ball and protected himself, but since his back was turned, I don't believe he would have been able to avoid Utley. Just an unfortunate situation, but I don't want to call it intentionally dirty. These kinds of plays happen quickly and look worse in hindsight when you slow the camera down.

After that, I'm just confused.

I'm not sure how the officials, after reviewing it for several minutes, could have called him safe. He launched himself at the fielder, not the base, he basically gave himself up to save the runner at first, then walked off the field. Mission accomplished. It lead to a bigger inning and the Mets couldn't get themselves over it.

More importantly, we're down a really good defensive infielder who is also solid at the plate, even if he doesn't hit for power like Flores. If this doesn't cost us the LDS, then it still may cost in a possible LDS or WS.

I'll be more pissed at Utley later.

 

[packerzrule]

Utley should have been out.

Mets get screwed. Nice to know that the NFL isn't the only professional sports with shitty umpiring

 

[bksballer89]

Well, on the brightside instead of seeing the mets deliver a quick kill in 3 games with Harvey on Monday.

We get to watch Kershaw choke away another season in game 4.

Might even try and pull a cartman and lick up some tears

Going to be amazing to watch him f8ld like a cheap tent